Next Cayman… EV?

[trumpton7291]

Just please give us a decent I.e. 400+ mile range. Some old tech pos that dies in 170 miles (like the taycans) will be the end of the brand.

[T1berious]

trumpton7291 said:

Just please give us a decent I.e. 400+ mile range. Some old tech pos that dies in 170 miles (like the taycans) will be the end of the brand.

Problem is (especially when it comes to EV's) you can't have it all. I think it was a Trek designer once said "Light, Strong, Cheap, pick two". With EV's we have an equivalent "Range, weight, price, pick two". Battery tech is improving but the game changing, higher density, solid state hasn't reached maturity enough to hit large scale production (as I understand it), so we'll have a scaled down Taycan Mk II for the 718 EV.

Having recently driven a Taycan GTS Sport Turismo I can honestly say it was one of the most entertaining cars I've driven regardless of power train.

However, I do appreciate that there's mixed messages from governments on EV adoption that is making life hard for manufacturers to guess which way they should be going... sigh especially considering the development times for these products.

[Acorn1]

I'm another that doesn't see the point of Ev sports cars.

A sports car should be light and nimble with good power to weight.

The anthesis of EV's

Range wise isn't it a fact that calaimed figures are based on driving around like Miss Daisy?

When driven hard EV's range drops dramatically.

[PGNSagaris]

Agree fully

[Johnny5hoods]

Acorn1 said:

I'm another that doesn't see the point of Ev sports cars.

A sports car should be light and nimble with good power to weight.

The anthesis of EV's

Range wise isn't it a fact that calaimed figures are based on driving around like Miss Daisy?

When driven hard EV's range drops dramatically.

+1

[reddiesel]

Personally I’m another that won’t be buying an EV . At 60 years of age I hope the ICE will see me into the grave .

[ChocolateFrog]

trumpton7291 said:

julian987R said:

They will sell like hot cakes though.
Opinion is bound to me biased on a forum like Pistonheads (and all it stands for)..but I think the Cayman EV will be an outstanding sales generator yet a woeful car to enthusiasts.

Are you sure they will sell? Heavy EV sports cars with limited range can only go so far. Quite literally!

Where are all these light ICE sportscars? I can only think of one and it isn't a Porsche.

[johnao]

Belfast Bap said:

johnao said:

Belfast Bap said:

... A smaller lighter Taycan would be almost ideal if they can sort out the handling.

I haven’t yet driven an EV Taycan. What problems did you find with the handling, please?

It could be just my driving style but I found that it under steered terribly when pushing it on. Yes it weighs over 2200KG but it was a bit of a handful. Lovely car when wafting on a nice A road and a brilliant cruiser, range aside but as most of my journeys are less than 25 miles each way and I have a great coastal road I like to push on a bit when the conditions allowed and I found the Taycan sadly lacking. I just couldn’t get it to hook up in the same way that I can in other cars on the same road. Hopefully the Cayman EV will be different.

That’s interesting. I have had the same issues with each of the EVs I’ve driven; BMW; Tesla; Peugeot. I think you are probably correct when you say these issues are a result of driving style. Mr & Mrs average driver are not inclined to push on or drive enthusiastically, so EVs are fine if the driver is content to pootle along and/or head to the nearest motorway when driving any distance. But, I have found that the handling characteristics of the EV cars I’ve driven have been hopeless because of all the battery weight on board. As you say, understeer is the most noticeable characteristic, but not the only one. I suspect that accurate weight management (hooking up is a good way of describing this) is going to be an insurmountable problem for EV drivers who want to drive in a spirited style.

[PinkHouse]

T1berious said:

Problem is (especially when it comes to EV's) you can't have it all. I think it was a Trek designer once said "Light, Strong, Cheap, pick two". With EV's we have an equivalent "Range, weight, price, pick two". Battery tech is improving but the game changing, higher density, solid state hasn't reached maturity enough to hit large scale production (as I understand it), so we'll have a scaled down Taycan Mk II for the 718 EV.

Having recently driven a Taycan GTS Sport Turismo I can honestly say it was one of the most entertaining cars I've driven regardless of power train.

However, I do appreciate that there's mixed messages from governments on EV adoption that is making life hard for manufacturers to guess which way they should be going... sigh especially considering the development times for these products.

Why would the manufacturers have to rely on any sort of messaging from governments, surely they should just produce a great product regardless. Or are it implying that manufacturers should have to rely on the government forcing consumers to buy products (EVs) that are substandard in almost every application?

[anyoldcardave]

PinkHouse said:

Why would the manufacturers have to rely on any sort of messaging from governments, surely they should just produce a great product regardless. Or are it implying that manufacturers should have to rely on the government forcing consumers to buy products (EVs) that are substandard in almost every application?

Government controls them, the Mustang Mach E was cobbled together, so government would let them sell the 5.0.

No Ev version, no 5.0.

No doubt Porsche are in the same boat, no ev, no GT3 or whatever.

They just need sheep to buy them.

[jimbo761]

Well here's the EV Boxster 'competition'...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

With a weight of Trophy 2110kg; GT 2210kg .

Edited by jimbo761 on Thursday 25th April 16:59

[craigjm]

jimbo761 said:

Well here's the EV Boxster 'competition'...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

With a weight of Trophy 2110kg; GT 2210kg .

Edited by jimbo761 on Thursday 25th April 16:59

Not really because dont bank on the new Boxster being less than a 90k start

[jamsp00n]

T1berious said:

Problem is (especially when it comes to EV's) you can't have it all. I think it was a Trek designer once said "Light, Strong, Cheap, pick two". With EV's we have an equivalent "Range, weight, price, pick two".

More like pick one. You want range? It's gonna be heavy and expensive. You want light? The range is gonna be crap. And it'll still still be expensive!

You want cheap? Don't worry about the other factors, the car's gonna be crap anyway!

[jamsp00n]

craigjm said:

Not really because dont bank on the new Boxster being less than a 90k start

I would. Base 718 is £51K. Base ICE Macan is £54K. New EV Macan is £69K. Base 911 is £97K. Now I know the 992.2 will be more, but £90K-plus for the base EV Boxster is too high, too close to the 911 and too big a jump over the ICE model.

Currently, the base 718 is cheaper than the base Macan ICE. That would imply the base 718 EV will be less than the base Macan EV. Which would put it well under £70k. It may turn out more expensive than that, but I'd still be surprised if it was much more than £75K base. £80K absolute maximum.

But I suspect it will be at least 1,700kg and the range will be mediocre on paper and awful if you actually drive like a sports car - sub 150 miles genuinely usable ragging it range and arriving at the charger with 40 odd miles spare just in case you need to move on to the next charger. I think the appeal will be limited, even if you like the basic idea of an EV sports car.

Personally think if anything EV sports cars need better range than normal EVs. You need enough margin to retain decent range when you wring the piss out of it, which absolutely hammers range. And you want enough range to drive somewhere remote and some of the way back, where the good roads are but charging stations are slim to none. I'd want one with a claimed range of minimum 500 miles that did 300 miles when you drove it hard (which in reality means 250 miles usable range, because you're not going to make a habit of rolling up to a charging station with zero miles left).

We're probably 15 years away from that being possible with a sports car-ish kerb weight.

[PinkHouse]

jamsp00n said:

craigjm said:

Not really because dont bank on the new Boxster being less than a 90k start

I would. Base 718 is £51K. Base ICE Macan is £54K. New EV Macan is £69K. Base 911 is £97K. Now I know the 992.2 will be more, but £90K-plus for the base EV Boxster is too high, too close to the 911 and too big a jump over the ICE model.

Currently, the base 718 is cheaper than the base Macan ICE. That would imply the base 718 EV will be less than the base Macan EV. Which would put it well under £70k. It may turn out more expensive than that, but I'd still be surprised if it was much more than £75K base. £80K absolute maximum.

But I suspect it will be at least 1,700kg and the range will be mediocre on paper and awful if you actually drive like a sports car - sub 150 miles genuinely usable ragging it range and arriving at the charger with 40 odd miles spare just in case you need to move on to the next charger. I think the appeal will be limited, even if you like the basic idea of an EV sports car.

Personally think if anything EV sports cars need better range than normal EVs. You need enough margin to retain decent range when you wring the piss out of it, which absolutely hammers range. And you want enough range to drive somewhere remote and some of the way back, where the good roads are but charging stations are slim to none. I'd want one with a claimed range of minimum 500 miles that did 300 miles when you drove it hard (which in reality means 250 miles usable range, because you're not going to make a habit of rolling up to a charging station with zero miles left).

We're probably 15 years away from that being possible with a sports car-ish kerb weight.

If the weight ends up being 1700kg I'll be impressed, I predict more like 1900 - 2000kg. Tesla seems to be the only one currently with a handle on optimising EV drivetrains. The standard Model 3 weighs around 1600kg, that's what other manufacturers should be aiming for. I wish they would licence and sell their platform to other manufacturers who can then come up with more appealing exterior designs

[Belfast Bap]

PinkHouse said:

I wish they would licence and sell their platform to other manufacturers who can then come up with more appealing exterior designs

Their interiors aren’t that desirable either. One thing that I did like about the Taycan was the interior, it was a nice place to be, I’ve never thought that when I’ve been in any Tesla. Anyway my money is down on the Cayman and I’m expecting a £70k ish starting point.

[MrVert]

Porsche will have their work cut out if the starting price is circa £ 90k....

This looks quite nice and the base one is just over £ 50k.....

New MG Cyberster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbTXrhA5DJ0

[jamsp00n]

PinkHouse said:

If the weight ends up being 1700kg I'll be impressed, I predict more like 1900 - 2000kg. Tesla seems to be the only one currently with a handle on optimising EV drivetrains. The standard Model 3 weighs around 1600kg, that's what other manufacturers should be aiming for. I wish they would licence and sell their platform to other manufacturers who can then come up with more appealing exterior designs

Facelift base Taycan is 2,090kg DIN with the smaller 89kWh (gross) / 82.3kWh (usable) pack. Think the Boxster EV pack will be a bit smaller than that, maybe 70-something kWh, and the rest of the car lighter, too, so can't see how the Boxster EV is going to be 2,000kg in that context. I'd guess 1,800kg max before options etc and I'd expect 1,700-and-something will be the quoted figure for the basic car.

For what it's worth, Tesla UK site says the Model 3 base is 1,765kg, doesn't say if that's DIN or EU. That's with a 60kWh pack with 318 mile WLTP range.

That said, the new Macan EV is a ridiculous porker at 2,330kg DIN for the Macan 4. OK, it's on a shared platform and has a 100kWh pack, but what a lump. So, you may be right, 1,900kg or more not impossible. But you'd hope Porsche has put in a bit more effort than that. Anyway, if you take the Taycan as opposed to the Macan as the reference point, I think there's at least some hope that the Boxster EV won't be a total bloater.

[CanAm]

jimbo761 said:

Well here's the EV Boxster 'competition'...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

With a weight of Trophy 2110kg; GT 2210kg .

That was apparently the Maximum Gross Weight. The same thread claimed an empty weight of "1,850 kg - 1,985 kg according to the interwebs."

Edited by CanAm on Saturday 27th April 07:42

[bosshog]

Harry M garage weighed the latest model 3 on the scales at 1850kg IIRC