718 GTS 4.0 - is it special enough as a 'last' ICE?

718 GTS 4.0 - is it special enough as a 'last' ICE?

Author
Discussion

Swine Enthusiast

312 posts

104 months

Wednesday 14th February
quotequote all
How does the GTS 4.0 sound?

bigmowley

1,893 posts

176 months

Wednesday 14th February
quotequote all
Personally I think you are looking at the wrong brand. My ICE keeper is my RWS R8. I have had it from new in 2018 and it’s still here after a procession of Porsche GT cars. The 5.2L V10 on its optional Audi sports exhaust is just fantastic. No GPF’s here just 8400RPM of 605 BHP automotive nirvana, it’s in a totally different world to the 4.0L flat 6. Unbelievable value for money now. I would guess at 20K miles mine is worth less than the cost of a decent 718GT4. Which is a bargain for a bona fide super sports car from the class above.
The only thing a GT4 does better in standard form is a bit of track work. However there are lots of upgrades for the Audi; brakes, suspension, aero kits etc etc. which make it far superior. The R8 platform with its double wishbone suspension all round is not a multiple GT race car winner for nothing wink

Stunters

577 posts

194 months

Wednesday 14th February
quotequote all
The right flavour of Exige or the right flavour of R8 as an ICE car to keep for the ages is an excellent shout, particularly if it's primarily going to be used for fun rather than also needing to be a daily or at least semi-daily proposition.

In those circumstances I'd almost certainly go for an Exige. The right flavour for me would be the 390 Final Edition.

My own choices (GTS 4.0, E90 M3, GR Yaris) all have a degree of daily practicality about them. The GTS and the GR Yaris can also withstand occasional trackday usage well enough.

In my experience, the Exige has much better steering feel than the 981 and 718 cars and rides very well too, but it's far less of an all-round proposition and has some ergonomic compromises (which aren't dealbreakers, but partly explains why I chose what I have!)

An R8 is quite a big and wide car, which may limit the sort of roads on which you might seek enjoyment - especially compared to a Caterham.

Stunters

577 posts

194 months

Wednesday 14th February
quotequote all
Swine Enthusiast said:
How does the GTS 4.0 sound?
Very good from the driver's seat at high revs, in my opinion. Quieter outside than a 981 GT4 and with a deeper note, I see this as a bonus as compared to the 981 GT4 when it comes to trackday noise limits and the like. And because it's a GTS and not a GT4, I think being a quieter car is in keeping with its relatively stealthy look.

I can see why 718 GT4 buyers might want more noise, but I think it suits the GTS 4.0's remit well. Definitely sounds like a proper flat 6.

LiamH66

679 posts

91 months

Wednesday 14th February
quotequote all
GTRene said:
Do you mean the older Dutch Donkervoort D8 Cosworth maybe with wide-track? standard they came in at around 220 hp but some had 360 or more in the lightweight.
You got me mining deep memories with that question, and sadly I had to use Google's help in the end!

Not the Donkevoort, which I was always interested in, but never got to play with one. I was thinking of a Dax Rush with a Cosworth YB turbo engine. (I'd also driven another in Rover V8 engined guise back in those days, and I preferred it to the Westfield SEight.) The one with the YB engine made about 280 bhp at the back wheels after I'd mapped it, so well over 300 at the flywheel. Knowing this made me suitably cautious when road testing afterwards. Wasn't a complete handful, but was very, very quick.

I'm not sure I could have enjoyed owning one. The sense of occasion would have been the cold sweat of knowing every drive might be my last!

Liam

LiamH66

679 posts

91 months

Wednesday 14th February
quotequote all
Swine Enthusiast said:
How does the GTS 4.0 sound?
They sound great from inside the Cayman cabin, especially with the exhaust switched to sport mode. The 981 GT4 is a fair bit louder and rortier at full chat, and also has a load of transmission whine, so it's easier to pretend to yourself you're driving a racing car on the road. (Carefully, and at moderate pace, honestly officer...) At mid revs I actually prefer the GTS 4.0 quality of sound, which goes nicely with the smoother and fuller torque output from the later engine.

Liam

c3m

278 posts

151 months

Wednesday 14th February
quotequote all
Swine Enthusiast said:
How does the GTS 4.0 sound?
It’s really, really good from inside and much deeper from the outside (that’s why it doesn’t get captured well by videos etc).

If you really, really want to it sound crazy good, just get JCR Titanium Race Pipe (it’s just a silencer). It will then sound better than a 981 gen car (IMHO).

You can also just use a set of collars to lock the valves open all the time. I found it was a bit too loud (people turning their heads when downshifting into 1st at slow town speeds).

Re: the JCR, see https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-...

GTRene

16,566 posts

224 months

Wednesday 14th February
quotequote all
listen to this 4.0 GTS Cayman, after 1.06 min, I think it sounds good with that akra exhaust, loud enough but not earplugs loud.


c3m

278 posts

151 months

Wednesday 14th February
quotequote all
One thing to note about the exhaust sound - the 718 doesn’t have pops and bangs. Some consider the pops & bangs in some 981 gen cars over the top (as they’re always exactly the same on each lift off), while the 718 is a bit more “honest” (similar to GT3s).

Which ones you prefer is a matter of personal choice, I know I got tired of the pops on my other cars but they’re fun once in a while. YMMV.

Fatherdougal

177 posts

50 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
I'm in a similar position to the OP... I had a GTS 4.0 on order early days of launch, when the OPC got their first demonstrator. I feel I got messed around by the OPC, lack of information etc so cancelled in the end. I did get a 981 GTS after a while, which I've enjoyed for 2 years now.

I have never specced and bought a new Porsche, and am thinking about going back to the GTS 4,0 for a final ICE car, specced to exactly how I would like it, to really last. I've previously baulked at the £40k uplift for what felt like an incremental upgrade (better cabin etc) but if it's my own spec, new and due to last me 5 years or more, I'm definitely warming to the idea.

I've started my research, and had a couple of questions if anyone can help!

1. Are they still taking orders for GTS 4.0? Any idea on current time from order to delivery if so?
2. I'd really like PDLS+ as I have it on my Cayenne, and I love it. I might be being daft, but I couldn't see that as an option on the configurator, just PDLS, Is that always the case, or temporarily unavailable? Is the only difference between the + and non + the automatic dipped beam (which would be a shame, as I really want this!)
3. I also couldn't see Alcantara roof headlining, which I have on my 981 GTS and love. Again, am I missing something or is it some obscurely named option?
4. Am really worried about the noise difference. I love the screaming nature of the 981 at high revs. All personal, and I know covered already in this thread, but has anyone made the move from 981 GTS to GTS 4.0 and been disappointed?
5. What's the story on current cars with the EU regulations - eg all the nonsense about speed limit warnings, lane departure warnings etc. Which of these affect the 718 GTS 4.0 currently?
6. Ultimately, views on whether or not it's worth the £50k uplift to get my perfect spec car...??

Thanks in advance for any and all views!

c3m

278 posts

151 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Fatherdougal said:
1. Are they still taking orders for GTS 4.0? Any idea on current time from order to delivery if so?
Back in Dec 2023, my local OPC all build slots have been allocated, no new allocations available.

Fatherdougal said:
2. I'd really like PDLS+ as I have it on my Cayenne, and I love it. I might be being daft, but I couldn't see that as an option on the configurator, just PDLS, Is that always the case, or temporarily unavailable? Is the only difference between the + and non + the automatic dipped beam (which would be a shame, as I really want this!)
I've got PDLS and it's Bi-xenon, PDLS+ is LED. Honestly, the lights are pretty good, I wouldn't get hung up on this for a sports car.

Fatherdougal said:
4. Am really worried about the noise difference. I love the screaming nature of the 981 at high revs. All personal, and I know covered already in this thread, but has anyone made the move from 981 GTS to GTS 4.0 and been disappointed?
Honestly, the GTS 4.0 exhaust noise is very disappointing and it's making me think about selling the car. There are two main problems with it: firstly, the valves close between 1.8k and 3.8k and it makes the car literally silent. This means that when you're pottering around, you get zero exhaust sound and between 2-3k rpm, inside, it's almost like nothing is happening. This really detracts from the experience because the sound makes an emotional difference.

There are valve controllers you can buy (or you can just permanently open the valves, google for "collar mod", takes 15mins to do and don't need to jack the car up). It improves the volume but does not improve the tone. The problem with opening the valves is the drone and boominess. The Porsche engineers programmed the valves this way because they knew it would be too boomy for the vast majority of customers.

Your other option is buying the best exhaust out there: the JCR (which I'm seriously considering). If I can't fix the sound, I'll probably end up selling the car - the lack of sound seriously detracts from the experience. My BMW (B58 engine + MPPSK) sounds miles better than my GTS 4.0 and it's 1/4 of the price.

I've spent countless hours researching and figuring out what to do and I'm at a loss. I'll share some links with you, so you can do your own research. One thing to note that, even with the JCR, your exhaust will still be quieter than a 981 GT4 and 991.1/.2 with PSE.

From this thread

  • OEM 718 GT4 EXHAUST (EU) - 91.1dB
  • JCR TITANIUM SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE - 94.5dB
  • JCR TITANIUM NON SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE - 95.1dB
  • JCR TITANIUM SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE / JCR TITANIUM OPF DELETE - 97.5dB
  • JCR TITANIUM NON SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE / JCR TITANIUM OPF DELETE - 98.1dB
  • JCR TITANIUM SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE / JCR TITANIUM OPF DELETE / JCR INCONEL RACE MANIFOLDS - 107.4dB
  • JCR TITANIUM NON SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE / JCR TITANIUM OPF DELETE / JCR INCONEL RACE MANIFOLDS - 108.1dB
From Jonny (of JCR): "The silenced version is around 3/4dB quieter than the non silenced version with valves closed - For me the volume is less important that the drone and as drone is subjective to some degree it's difficult to measure. Both systems have the resonators come into effect with the valves closed, this device attenuates drone very well in the target RPM's 2000-2750rpm"

Now, those are WOT measurements and seems like the JCR exhaust is around 3-4dB quieter than a 981 GT4 (see this thread). But I don't drive at WOT for long periods of time, so what I care about would be the volume with valves closed 2-3k rpm.

At 5k+ rpm, the noise is good but I spend very little time in that rpm range.

Also, check pages 174-178 from the Pistonheads thread.

RSVP911 said:
daro911 said:
Is it as loud as the 981 Spyder's
I'd say not quite - but not far off. It actually sounds very different - the 981 is a very loud slightly unsubtle thing, with lots of fake pops and bangs. The 718 with JCR is slightly quieter but with what I'd describe as a very real , bassey, deep sound - both sound epic, but they are different. I would say the later car sounds more grown up if that makes sense ?

One thing it has done is completely changed my perception of the engine - before it sounded weak and whiney - now it sounds incredible and feels like a really strong engine (I realise the engine hasn't changed - but driving the car sounds so different it makes you feel like its got a completely different engine)

I realise I'm not making any friends here - but I do feel quite evangelical about it as it has completely transformed the car - I can't stop driving it (under current restrictions) & whenever I do, I'm grinning from ear to ear - it reminds me of how I felt about my 981 Spyder, which as you know, I loved and thought was a brilliant car (& still is)

I think the effect will be better in the Spyder than the GT4 for obvious reasons.

Either way - I'm boring myself - so no more exhaust chat from me smile
The ultimate exhaust thread has a lot of information, including this chart:



Fatherdougal said:
5. What's the story on current cars with the EU regulations - eg all the nonsense about speed limit warnings, lane departure warnings etc. Which of these affect the 718 GTS 4.0 currently?
The UK has opted out of the EU regulations which come into force in July 2024 after which no current 718 will be sold in the EU but 718s will continue to be sold outside the EU.

Fatherdougal said:
6. Ultimately, views on whether or not it's worth the £50k uplift to get my perfect spec car...??
Honestly, no - saying that as a GTS 4.0 owner. I'm looking at spending £6k+ just to fix the sound and it would still not be as good as the 981 generation. It also means invalidating warranty etc, so I'm not convinced it's worth all the hassle.

Boxsterjon

75 posts

98 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Fatherdougal said:
I'm in a similar position to the OP... I had a GTS 4.0 on order early days of launch, when the OPC got their first demonstrator. I feel I got messed around by the OPC, lack of information etc so cancelled in the end. I did get a 981 GTS after a while, which I've enjoyed for 2 years now.

I have never specced and bought a new Porsche, and am thinking about going back to the GTS 4,0 for a final ICE car, specced to exactly how I would like it, to really last. I've previously baulked at the £40k uplift for what felt like an incremental upgrade (better cabin etc) but if it's my own spec, new and due to last me 5 years or more, I'm definitely warming to the idea.

I've started my research, and had a couple of questions if anyone can help!

1. Are they still taking orders for GTS 4.0? Any idea on current time from order to delivery if so?
2. I'd really like PDLS+ as I have it on my Cayenne, and I love it. I might be being daft, but I couldn't see that as an option on the configurator, just PDLS, Is that always the case, or temporarily unavailable? Is the only difference between the + and non + the automatic dipped beam (which would be a shame, as I really want this!)
3. I also couldn't see Alcantara roof headlining, which I have on my 981 GTS and love. Again, am I missing something or is it some obscurely named option?
4. Am really worried about the noise difference. I love the screaming nature of the 981 at high revs. All personal, and I know covered already in this thread, but has anyone made the move from 981 GTS to GTS 4.0 and been disappointed?
5. What's the story on current cars with the EU regulations - eg all the nonsense about speed limit warnings, lane departure warnings etc. Which of these affect the 718 GTS 4.0 currently?
6. Ultimately, views on whether or not it's worth the £50k uplift to get my perfect spec car...??

Thanks in advance for any and all views!
I upgraded from a 981 GTS to a 4.0 GTS. In all honesty, the sound of the 981 is better - it used to send tingles down my spine! - but the 4.0 sounds good too. The torque, chassis and steering are better and it’s nice to have CarPlay. Logically, it’s not £35k better (my price to change) but I don’t regret it. Just wish I could have both!

trumpton7291

200 posts

3 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Before shelling out all that cash, just be sure the sound i.e. “internet myth” to those with actual experience is really worth paying for.

A huge amount of utter horsest is available for everyone’s consumption on forums…


dans160

62 posts

39 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
The GTS4.0 sounds bloody great with the windows down; you get the full intake wail that way. Windows up, it's a good sound, but not the be all and end all, but better than most new cars I'd imagine. My previous 981s sounded better in all respects. It is a remarkable car though.

GTRene

16,566 posts

224 months

Monday 11th March
quotequote all
so for in the car and not to much outside, change the intake manifold? I bet there are some nice aftermarket examples were you get more involvement inside the car, to much outside is also not good for many people (neighbor's) lol

c3m

278 posts

151 months

Monday 11th March
quotequote all
c3m said:
Your other option is buying the best exhaust out there: the JCR (which I'm seriously considering).
I've decided that I'm going to change the exhaust and will report back how the experience goes.

homerdog

244 posts

231 months

Tuesday 12th March
quotequote all
c3m said:
I've got PDLS and it's Bi-xenon, PDLS+ is LED. Honestly, the lights are pretty good, I wouldn't get hung up on this for a sports car.
For a while you could only get bi-xenon, but PDLS LED has been available for over a year now, minus the +.

T1berious

2,262 posts

155 months

Wednesday 13th March
quotequote all
@AndrewGP

As others have stated, for the budget, there really isn't much as a direct competitor. (Amazed no one has mentioned the A110).

I'm 18 months in with my GTS 4.0 and am struggling with what would top it. Unfortunately any move within the Porsche stable effectively doubles the budget (A 992 GTS with a sprinkling of options is 145k).

And once your at that sort of budget you can get some very tasty metal as "pre loved".

Nope, I really can't think of anything I'd change. I would recommend a PEC morning though, it really cemented my decision.

Best of luck!

T1b

scrounger73

262 posts

158 months

Wednesday 13th March
quotequote all
Fatherdougal said:
I'm in a similar position to the OP... I had a GTS 4.0 on order early days of launch, when the OPC got their first demonstrator. I feel I got messed around by the OPC, lack of information etc so cancelled in the end. I did get a 981 GTS after a while, which I've enjoyed for 2 years now.

I have never specced and bought a new Porsche, and am thinking about going back to the GTS 4,0 for a final ICE car, specced to exactly how I would like it, to really last. I've previously baulked at the £40k uplift for what felt like an incremental upgrade (better cabin etc) but if it's my own spec, new and due to last me 5 years or more, I'm definitely warming to the idea.

I've started my research, and had a couple of questions if anyone can help!

1. Are they still taking orders for GTS 4.0? Any idea on current time from order to delivery if so?
2. I'd really like PDLS+ as I have it on my Cayenne, and I love it. I might be being daft, but I couldn't see that as an option on the configurator, just PDLS, Is that always the case, or temporarily unavailable? Is the only difference between the + and non + the automatic dipped beam (which would be a shame, as I really want this!)
3. I also couldn't see Alcantara roof headlining, which I have on my 981 GTS and love. Again, am I missing something or is it some obscurely named option?
4. Am really worried about the noise difference. I love the screaming nature of the 981 at high revs. All personal, and I know covered already in this thread, but has anyone made the move from 981 GTS to GTS 4.0 and been disappointed?
5. What's the story on current cars with the EU regulations - eg all the nonsense about speed limit warnings, lane departure warnings etc. Which of these affect the 718 GTS 4.0 currently?
6. Ultimately, views on whether or not it's worth the £50k uplift to get my perfect spec car...??

Thanks in advance for any and all views!
To answer some of your points

1. OPCs are still taking orders however they are managing expectations. There is a strong rumour that this will be the last MY however my OPC has said that they expect it to run into 2025.

2. PDLS+ is no longer available. Bi-Xenon and LED PDLS are available however, as mentioned , the + bit has gone so no adaptive headlights I'm afraid.

3. Alcantara headlining is standard on the GTS

4. Sadly the addition of the GPF has muted the noise somewhat however, the sound of the 4.0 is epic over 5k rpm. If you can, grab a test drive in the GTS or see if anyone local to you has one and will take you for a ride.

5. New cars after July must have some form of speed limiting or notification. My personal thought is that Porsche will either put cruise or speed limit display as standard (at a cost of course), but who knows?

6. If you plan on keeping the car and want to spec it for you then do it but get on the list fast. It would be worth ringing a couple of OPCs to see if they have any allocations but you're probably better positioned speaking to your local one first as they like to keep buyers close. They make more money on servicing and warranty that way.

I'd suggest building your ideal spec on the configurator and send the code to your sales advisor. Arrange to go in and see them afterwards to iron out some nitty gritty and even see some of the options in the flesh.

Finally, as a back-up, have a look on the approved used site. You may find your ideal spec on there but, it may be close to, if not above, retail price.

Good luck.

First Sea Lord

1,163 posts

179 months

Wednesday 13th March
quotequote all
scrounger73 said:
Fatherdougal said:
I'm in a similar position to the OP... I had a GTS 4.0 on order early days of launch, when the OPC got their first demonstrator. I feel I got messed around by the OPC, lack of information etc so cancelled in the end. I did get a 981 GTS after a while, which I've enjoyed for 2 years now.

I have never specced and bought a new Porsche, and am thinking about going back to the GTS 4,0 for a final ICE car, specced to exactly how I would like it, to really last. I've previously baulked at the £40k uplift for what felt like an incremental upgrade (better cabin etc) but if it's my own spec, new and due to last me 5 years or more, I'm definitely warming to the idea.

I've started my research, and had a couple of questions if anyone can help!

1. Are they still taking orders for GTS 4.0? Any idea on current time from order to delivery if so?
2. I'd really like PDLS+ as I have it on my Cayenne, and I love it. I might be being daft, but I couldn't see that as an option on the configurator, just PDLS, Is that always the case, or temporarily unavailable? Is the only difference between the + and non + the automatic dipped beam (which would be a shame, as I really want this!)
3. I also couldn't see Alcantara roof headlining, which I have on my 981 GTS and love. Again, am I missing something or is it some obscurely named option?
4. Am really worried about the noise difference. I love the screaming nature of the 981 at high revs. All personal, and I know covered already in this thread, but has anyone made the move from 981 GTS to GTS 4.0 and been disappointed?
5. What's the story on current cars with the EU regulations - eg all the nonsense about speed limit warnings, lane departure warnings etc. Which of these affect the 718 GTS 4.0 currently?
6. Ultimately, views on whether or not it's worth the £50k uplift to get my perfect spec car...??

Thanks in advance for any and all views!
To answer some of your points

1. OPCs are still taking orders however they are managing expectations. There is a strong rumour that this will be the last MY however my OPC has said that they expect it to run into 2025.

2. PDLS+ is no longer available. Bi-Xenon and LED PDLS are available however, as mentioned , the + bit has gone so no adaptive headlights I'm afraid.

3. Alcantara headlining is standard on the GTS

4. Sadly the addition of the GPF has muted the noise somewhat however, the sound of the 4.0 is epic over 5k rpm. If you can, grab a test drive in the GTS or see if anyone local to you has one and will take you for a ride.

5. New cars after July must have some form of speed limiting or notification. My personal thought is that Porsche will either put cruise or speed limit display as standard (at a cost of course), but who knows?

6. If you plan on keeping the car and want to spec it for you then do it but get on the list fast. It would be worth ringing a couple of OPCs to see if they have any allocations but you're probably better positioned speaking to your local one first as they like to keep buyers close. They make more money on servicing and warranty that way.

I'd suggest building your ideal spec on the configurator and send the code to your sales advisor. Arrange to go in and see them afterwards to iron out some nitty gritty and even see some of the options in the flesh.

Finally, as a back-up, have a look on the approved used site. You may find your ideal spec on there but, it may be close to, if not above, retail price.

Good luck.
Great advice above. I find PDLS+ slow and prone to dazzling other drivers - so no problem that the plus isn't available in my view