Cup 2 - Pilot Sport 4S - Pilot Sport S5
Discussion
I really do not like the Cup 2 tyres on my Spyder (harsh ride and lack of wet surface grip), so will be looking to change to the PS 4S when the tread remaining makes it justifiable.
I recently noticed that the S5 version of the Pilot Sport is now coming through on new cars.
So, 2 questions:
1. Any real world comparisons between the Cup 2 and 4S, here (or on-line)?
2. Any experiences yet with the S5?
If the S5 is a significant improvement over the 4S, I will probably wait until they are available in the after market.
I recently noticed that the S5 version of the Pilot Sport is now coming through on new cars.
So, 2 questions:
1. Any real world comparisons between the Cup 2 and 4S, here (or on-line)?
2. Any experiences yet with the S5?
If the S5 is a significant improvement over the 4S, I will probably wait until they are available in the after market.
My first 718 Spyder I ordered on Cup2’s and I did a couple of track days with it. My second one I ordered with “normal” tyres, it’s an option on the Spyder, and it came on PS4s. Happy days. I also ran that car on winters which were Michelin Alpin 5s.
The PS4s were a great all round tyre, less sharp than the Cup 2s but night and day better than the winters as you would expect. The winters were noticeably more absorbing of bumps but the wooly steering feel and lack of precision were not worth the extra comfort. To be fair in summer temperatures there was barely any difference between the Cup2 and the PS4 in normal road driving. Obviously in winter the PS4 is a far better option. Not had PS5 yet but I would guess a small improvement all round?
The PS4s were a great all round tyre, less sharp than the Cup 2s but night and day better than the winters as you would expect. The winters were noticeably more absorbing of bumps but the wooly steering feel and lack of precision were not worth the extra comfort. To be fair in summer temperatures there was barely any difference between the Cup2 and the PS4 in normal road driving. Obviously in winter the PS4 is a far better option. Not had PS5 yet but I would guess a small improvement all round?
Sport S5 is available in the correct sizes although they are not N-rated if that is important to you.
There is also the issue of trying to find a replacement if you are on a roadtrip, availability is sparse and it is going to be a special order item for some time I suspect. Currently only available as an OE fitment.
There is also the issue of trying to find a replacement if you are on a roadtrip, availability is sparse and it is going to be a special order item for some time I suspect. Currently only available as an OE fitment.
Edited by M11rph on Sunday 18th February 17:52
Tony B2 said:
So, 2 questions:
1. Any real world comparisons between the Cup 2 and 4S, here (or on-line)?
2. Any experiences yet with the S5?
Replied on a thread here about dailying a GT4: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...1. Any real world comparisons between the Cup 2 and 4S, here (or on-line)?
2. Any experiences yet with the S5?
Most relevant bit for you Tony would be the following:
"I have a 718 GT4 Manual - Clubsport with the carbon buckets. It's my only car/my daily (occasionally use my gf's mk8 Fiesta if it's a very short trip).
The main thing that's totally transformed its 'livable-ness' is swapping the Cup 2s out for PS4S - significantly less road noise, noticeably better ride, and much more confidence inspiring in the cold/wet. I'd go as far as to say the PS4S are better in summer too, you just can't drive a GT4 hard enough on the road to keep proper heat in the Cup2s. Anyway - assuming you swap to some road-biased tyres you'll be set."
I did a few thousand miles on the Cup2s and was not a fan - noisy, fidgety ride, poor grip/feel in the cold and uninspiring bordering on dangerous adding rain to the above. Swapped to the PS4S in November and, after a couple of hundred miles 'bedding in'(?), are an order of magnitude more livable whilst giving up nothing for on road performance (I don't track my car).
I can't give you any opinions on the S5 I'm afraid.
What I will add is I intentionally chose to go non N marked on the PS4S for 2 reasons:
-Non N are A rated wet grip vs B for the N rated tyres
- The N rated PS4S seemed to be having some negative reviews on porsche forums (rennlist etc.) with rumblings of Chinese factories and poor quality control etc. Most people said the non N rated seemed to be unaffected.
Anyway, hope the above was handy.
What pressures are you running the Cup 2's at?
I found the Cup 2's were more comfy than the PS4s in the summer, but they should be run at lower pressures than the standard tyres, they have a stiffer sidewall so can cope with it, if you run them as high as PS4S there is not enough bite and it makes the car feel a little skittish, even more so when temps drop.
I ran PS4s at 38 rear and 34 front but the Cup 2 at 32 rear and 29 front. That is cold pressures, this also means they get to temp quicker, run them at the same pressure as the PS4S and it is hard to get temperature into them at all.
So definitely try them at lower pressures if you haven't, the difference is not subtle.
I found the Cup 2's were more comfy than the PS4s in the summer, but they should be run at lower pressures than the standard tyres, they have a stiffer sidewall so can cope with it, if you run them as high as PS4S there is not enough bite and it makes the car feel a little skittish, even more so when temps drop.
I ran PS4s at 38 rear and 34 front but the Cup 2 at 32 rear and 29 front. That is cold pressures, this also means they get to temp quicker, run them at the same pressure as the PS4S and it is hard to get temperature into them at all.
So definitely try them at lower pressures if you haven't, the difference is not subtle.
Reviews suggest Conti Sport 7 is the new enchmark if they are available in the right sizes..
https://www.evo.co.uk/tyre-reviews/18309/best-car-...
https://www.evo.co.uk/tyre-reviews/18309/best-car-...
Edmundo2 said:
Reviews suggest Conti Sport 7 is the new enchmark if they are available in the right sizes..
https://www.evo.co.uk/tyre-reviews/18309/best-car-...
my local tyre fitter recommended them over the PS4S and he has been putting them on a lot of high performance cars, but they're not available in N-rated if that's important to you.https://www.evo.co.uk/tyre-reviews/18309/best-car-...
Just to add to the theme, when the weather/occasion suits, I've got PS4S's on my Cayman GTS 4.0, and, Cup 2s on my 981 GT4. (Although neither on either of them this time of year, too cold and wet. 18" Pirelli Sotto Zeroes on the GTS, as it's a daily drive; P Zeroes on the GT4.)
Cup 2s are far from the worst "track oriented" tyre I've tried, but they have their limitations as road tyres. Sounds like you have found that out already. On track in the wet, I'm actually a lot more confident with P Zeroes. The Cup 2s definitely don't like cold or wet, and both cold and wet at the same time, even worse! But to give them their due, they'll take some abuse and overheating on a dry track, and bounce back with a bit more scrubbing in. Just about exhausted my second set, but I'll be getting a third, and will try to look after them a bit better.
PS4S's were a really welcome surprise when the 4.0 GTS came with them fitted last year, and I have to say, I'm really impressed with them as summer, or even 3 season road tyres. I'm told they are actually pretty good as a track-day tyre too. Not amazing in the wet, but far more predictable than the Cup 2s, and have not given me any nasty surprises so far. Ride, noise and road feel also really acceptable. In fact I thought pretty good back before the changeover to "Winters" last year. Quite excited by the idea of Spring and getting them back on the car if I'm honest.
I'm very "N-rated" in my tyre experiments for the usual reasons. I'm sure there are others available that might be a little better, but there are plenty of good tyres available for most purposes within Porsche recommendations.
Hope that helps
Liam
Cup 2s are far from the worst "track oriented" tyre I've tried, but they have their limitations as road tyres. Sounds like you have found that out already. On track in the wet, I'm actually a lot more confident with P Zeroes. The Cup 2s definitely don't like cold or wet, and both cold and wet at the same time, even worse! But to give them their due, they'll take some abuse and overheating on a dry track, and bounce back with a bit more scrubbing in. Just about exhausted my second set, but I'll be getting a third, and will try to look after them a bit better.
PS4S's were a really welcome surprise when the 4.0 GTS came with them fitted last year, and I have to say, I'm really impressed with them as summer, or even 3 season road tyres. I'm told they are actually pretty good as a track-day tyre too. Not amazing in the wet, but far more predictable than the Cup 2s, and have not given me any nasty surprises so far. Ride, noise and road feel also really acceptable. In fact I thought pretty good back before the changeover to "Winters" last year. Quite excited by the idea of Spring and getting them back on the car if I'm honest.
I'm very "N-rated" in my tyre experiments for the usual reasons. I'm sure there are others available that might be a little better, but there are plenty of good tyres available for most purposes within Porsche recommendations.
Hope that helps
Liam
Crudeoink said:
Ive just fitted the Conti Sport Contact 7's after being previously running PS4S. I'm very impressed with the Conti's
How is the steering feel? This is one area I feel Michelin are falling well behind, some of the others from Bridgestone have been well ahead in this regard.
The PS4S, and the Cup 2 for that matter, have a bit of a numb turn in feel.
FriedMarsBar said:
The PS5 is a replacement for the PS4 not the PS4S. The PS4S is categorised as an Ultra High performance tyre with stiffer sidewalls whereas the PS4 and PS5 are High performance tyres.
Edited as I read the original post wrong.The PS S5 is supposed to be the direct replacement for the P4S but I don't think you can buy it, its only available on new cars. Apparently there may be yet another tyre coming out to replace the PS4S in the aftermarket.
Edited by CLK-GTR on Tuesday 20th February 10:27
Ed.Neumann said:
FriedMarsBar said:
The PS5 is a replacement for the PS4 not the PS4S. The PS4S is categorised as an Ultra High performance tyre with stiffer sidewalls whereas the PS4 and PS5 are High performance tyres.
Pilot Sport S 5 is different to the Pilot Sport 5S.Many thanks for the helpful and insightful responses above.
I do intend to stick with the N-rated options, due to warranty implications.
I have no expectation of significant track use - maybe a couple of laps of The Ring if I can find the courage (I do know it very well, but have only ever driven rental cars there). Driving your own car there is a bit different....
The S5 does look interesting (based on Tyre Reviews video of nearly a year ago) as it appears to have a "Connect" option.
Currently I am setting pressures to achieve 29/32 when warmed up - takes 5 - 10 miles in my experience.
I do intend to stick with the N-rated options, due to warranty implications.
I have no expectation of significant track use - maybe a couple of laps of The Ring if I can find the courage (I do know it very well, but have only ever driven rental cars there). Driving your own car there is a bit different....
The S5 does look interesting (based on Tyre Reviews video of nearly a year ago) as it appears to have a "Connect" option.
Currently I am setting pressures to achieve 29/32 when warmed up - takes 5 - 10 miles in my experience.
CLK-GTR said:
Edited as I read the original post wrong.
The PS S5 is supposed to be the direct replacement for the P4S but I don't think you can buy it, its only available on new cars. Apparently there may be yet another tyre coming out to replace the PS4S in the aftermarket.
Thanks, I thought I was up to speed on these tyres :-)The PS S5 is supposed to be the direct replacement for the P4S but I don't think you can buy it, its only available on new cars. Apparently there may be yet another tyre coming out to replace the PS4S in the aftermarket.
Edited by CLK-GTR on Tuesday 20th February 10:27
It would appear that PS S5 tyres only come in 20" and 21"
Tony B2 said:
Many thanks for the helpful and insightful responses above.
I do intend to stick with the N-rated options, due to warranty implications.
I have no expectation of significant track use - maybe a couple of laps of The Ring if I can find the courage (I do know it very well, but have only ever driven rental cars there). Driving your own car there is a bit different....
The S5 does look interesting (based on Tyre Reviews video of nearly a year ago) as it appears to have a "Connect" option.
Currently I am setting pressures to achieve 29/32 when warmed up - takes 5 - 10 miles in my experience.
I think there was a thread on here recently saying the warranty doesn't needs N rates any more? I do intend to stick with the N-rated options, due to warranty implications.
I have no expectation of significant track use - maybe a couple of laps of The Ring if I can find the courage (I do know it very well, but have only ever driven rental cars there). Driving your own car there is a bit different....
The S5 does look interesting (based on Tyre Reviews video of nearly a year ago) as it appears to have a "Connect" option.
Currently I am setting pressures to achieve 29/32 when warmed up - takes 5 - 10 miles in my experience.
Edited by Ed.Neumann on Tuesday 20th February 16:11
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