Cup 2 - Pilot Sport 4S - Pilot Sport S5
Discussion
Ed.Neumann said:
How is the steering feel?
This is one area I feel Michelin are falling well behind, some of the others from Bridgestone have been well ahead in this regard.
The PS4S, and the Cup 2 for that matter, have a bit of a numb turn in feel.
Turn in feels better, a bit more feedback and the steering loads up nicely, doesnt feel as 'wooly' as the Michelins. That said, I haven't had a chance to really push them or play around with pressures much and I havent driven them in the wet yet. I was surprised with the ride quality though, I had read that the SC7's give a slightly harsher ride so was expecting it to be a bit crashy but its not really any different.This is one area I feel Michelin are falling well behind, some of the others from Bridgestone have been well ahead in this regard.
The PS4S, and the Cup 2 for that matter, have a bit of a numb turn in feel.
Crudeoink said:
Turn in feels better, a bit more feedback and the steering loads up nicely, doesnt feel as 'wooly' as the Michelins. That said, I haven't had a chance to really push them or play around with pressures much and I havent driven them in the wet yet. I was surprised with the ride quality though, I had read that the SC7's give a slightly harsher ride so was expecting it to be a bit crashy but its not really any different.
Nice. Thanks for that. Update again when you have a bit more of a play will you?
Michelin are great at everything, other than steering feel mho, they just aren't fun as they don't feel precise off centre. It feels like you have taken off all camber and puts huge amount of toe in on the geo with the Michelins.
The early N rated PS2 didn't, the N rated Bridgestones didn't either, so would be nice to get back on a tyre that feels sharp again.
I've had non N rated Michelin PS4S tyres on my 981 GT4 for over three years now and the car has been serviced, MOT'd and had the warranty renewed without any questions about non N rated tyres by Porsche Colchester.
I do have another set of N rated Michelin PS4S for my GT4 in the garage should I ever need to put them on.
I do have another set of N rated Michelin PS4S for my GT4 in the garage should I ever need to put them on.
Could I just point out that Porsche approved tyres are N marked, not N rated.
"Rated" or "rating" in reference to a tyre relates to maximum speed, e.g. “H rated” is equivalent to a maximum speed of 130 mph.
An "N rated tyre" therefore means a tyre capable of a maximum speed of 87mph and not a tyre approved by Porsche.
I thank you.
"Rated" or "rating" in reference to a tyre relates to maximum speed, e.g. “H rated” is equivalent to a maximum speed of 130 mph.
An "N rated tyre" therefore means a tyre capable of a maximum speed of 87mph and not a tyre approved by Porsche.
I thank you.
The Pilot Sport S5 is now available via Michelin's UK website.
https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-pil...
At present a limited number of sizes, and appears to be aimed at Mercedes.
I guess, given a bit more time, the N marked variety will become available via this route.
https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-pil...
At present a limited number of sizes, and appears to be aimed at Mercedes.
I guess, given a bit more time, the N marked variety will become available via this route.
HoneyBadgerUK said:
What I will add is I intentionally chose to go non N marked on the PS4S for 2 reasons:
-Non N are A rated wet grip vs B for the N rated tyres
- The N rated PS4S seemed to be having some negative reviews on porsche forums (rennlist etc.) with rumblings of Chinese factories and poor quality control etc. Most people said the non N rated seemed to be unaffected.
It has been my belief for 20 years that Porsche ask tyre manufacturers to tweak their tyre compounds to achieve the N marker. They do so because they want better dry weather performance because it helps their track times so the journalists can quote quicker Ring lap times than their competitors. Totally unverified so just my conspiracy theory mind getting involved. I did notice a few years ago that some of these tyres did have a difference in their wet ratings as mentioned and this made me feel more confident about voicing my conspiracy theory in public.-Non N are A rated wet grip vs B for the N rated tyres
- The N rated PS4S seemed to be having some negative reviews on porsche forums (rennlist etc.) with rumblings of Chinese factories and poor quality control etc. Most people said the non N rated seemed to be unaffected.
I do wander why no one measures wet lap times. I would be interested in that. Possibly more than dry lap times.
ATM said:
HoneyBadgerUK said:
What I will add is I intentionally chose to go non N marked on the PS4S for 2 reasons:
-Non N are A rated wet grip vs B for the N rated tyres
- The N rated PS4S seemed to be having some negative reviews on porsche forums (rennlist etc.) with rumblings of Chinese factories and poor quality control etc. Most people said the non N rated seemed to be unaffected.
It has been my belief for 20 years that Porsche ask tyre manufacturers to tweak their tyre compounds to achieve the N marker. They do so because they want better dry weather performance because it helps their track times so the journalists can quote quicker Ring lap times than their competitors. Totally unverified so just my conspiracy theory mind getting involved. I did notice a few years ago that some of these tyres did have a difference in their wet ratings as mentioned and this made me feel more confident about voicing my conspiracy theory in public.-Non N are A rated wet grip vs B for the N rated tyres
- The N rated PS4S seemed to be having some negative reviews on porsche forums (rennlist etc.) with rumblings of Chinese factories and poor quality control etc. Most people said the non N rated seemed to be unaffected.
I do wander why no one measures wet lap times. I would be interested in that. Possibly more than dry lap times.
The N “rated” tyre for the Cayenne Turbo GT are incredibly soft….they are rated at 80, Cup 2’s on a GT3 are 180 and PS4S are 300. That’s how they get the ludicrous lap times.
Brace yourselves I'm going to be controversal. PS4S can over heat on the road and track if you a pressing on and the grip drops off a cliff, wet is OK but not amazing once you are past the first mm or two on the tread. Non-N marked by the way.
My next road tyres won't be PS4S despite being a big fan of them previously. Good thread though, I'm interested in the other options discussed
Dunc.
My next road tyres won't be PS4S despite being a big fan of them previously. Good thread though, I'm interested in the other options discussed
Dunc.
ChrisW. said:
I researched the Continental options and only rears were N rated ... but it's interesting to see the weight difference ...
If only the rears are N rated then they must surely be N rated for a different car ? The N rating is being updated for each model so there will be a letter after the N to denote the model linehttps://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/Porsche-OE-N-R...
I was at CG a few weeks ago they had recently had an M2 in which had an extremely lively rear axle and couldn’t fathom why. Turns out the tyres despite being BMW fit tyres and the correct size were actually meant for the front axle of an M3…and apparently entirely inappropriate for the rear axle of an M2. Michelin replaced the tyres gratis. Probably quite different load index and I’d imagine weights like you’ve highlighted.
Cheib said:
ChrisW. said:
I researched the Continental options and only rears were N rated ... but it's interesting to see the weight difference ...
If only the rears are N rated then they must surely be N rated for a different car ? The N rating is being updated for each model so there will be a letter after the N to denote the model linehttps://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/Porsche-OE-N-R...
I was at CG a few weeks ago they had recently had an M2 in which had an extremely lively rear axle and couldn’t fathom why. Turns out the tyres despite being BMW fit tyres and the correct size were actually meant for the front axle of an M3…and apparently entirely inappropriate for the rear axle of an M2. Michelin replaced the tyres gratis. Probably quite different load index and I’d imagine weights like you’ve highlighted.
The Continental n-marked tyre is designed for the 11.5J width rear wheel of the Panamera. This also applies to the n-marked Michelin S4S. This is despite all the tyres being sold as 325 width. Maybe the non n-marked Continental is designed for the wider wheel which would explain it being heavier.
I have seen some people on the other side of the pond on Rennlist fitting 355 25 21r S4S to get the same shoulder profile. I don't think Michelin offer that tyre in the UK. It also has a smaller rolling circumference.
Tripe Bypass said:
... Maybe the non n-marked Continental is designed for the wider wheel which would explain it being heavier...
Am I misreading that Continental information?The 325/30 R21 sizes are the same weight (14.86 Kg)
The 325/35 R20 is heavier by circa 800g, but is that not due to the higher sidewall?
The smaller 20 inch wheel should be lighter, all else being the same. What matters is the combined wheel & tyre weight.
Well I ended up fitting PS4S to the standard wheels ... both N rated and according to Black Circles a correct option for the car. Strangely the rears are rated A in the wet and the fronts only B ... there is an A rated PS4S in the front size but it's not N rated.
Agreed that the information from Continental is very confusing ....
The Cup2's are now on the mags ... and of course it's the weight of the complete assembly which is important ... but as long as they are durable weight savings in the tyre are more important even than weight savings in the wheel ...
Agreed that the information from Continental is very confusing ....
The Cup2's are now on the mags ... and of course it's the weight of the complete assembly which is important ... but as long as they are durable weight savings in the tyre are more important even than weight savings in the wheel ...
Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 17th March 13:47
M11rph said:
Tripe Bypass said:
... Maybe the non n-marked Continental is designed for the wider wheel which would explain it being heavier...
Am I misreading that Continental information?The 325/30 R21 sizes are the same weight (14.86 Kg)
The 325/35 R20 is heavier by circa 800g, but is that not due to the higher sidewall?
The smaller 20 inch wheel should be lighter, all else being the same. What matters is the combined wheel & tyre weight.
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