Panamera; GTS or Turbo

[Mosdef]

Till135 said:

IMI A said:

Have access to school run 7 seater. Only way unfortunately with 4 kids as I hate SUVs and they're now getting too big for the Golf but i still squeeze them in when not travelling with a full house as its 40mpg v 12 mpg. At some point may need to upsize Golf but loath to as Golfs diminutive size and anonymity a bonus. Yep horses for courses need something to offset the SUVs massive thirst and Golf does the trick.

On the Panny I think compared to its piers like E63s, M5 and RS6 space wise these are all better. The new E63s way more character and full stop a nice ownership proposition from a practicality point of view. Very spacious with lots of leg room. You have a thunderous engine too and beautiful interior. They'll be tuppence soon

I don’t post much but I’m sorry the comment above is total nonsense. I’ve had a 2015 Panamera GTS. Myself, Wife, 2 children, 2 dogs, roof box and a bike rack on the back. Beautiful place to be, awesome noise. Will do close to 30mpg. 0-60 in less than 5 seconds. In full sport mode it will fly down a country road. Mine had the torque vectoring etc. Anyone who claims a Golf is better either can’t drive, doesn’t like cars or hasn’t driven a GTS properly.
Re GTS vs Turbo, we borrowed a new style Turbo Pan and the older GTS was a more involving car to drive. Not as quick but more enjoyable.

Exactly. It seems a bit strange to even compare a Golf (GTI or even R) with a Panamera. They’re completely different cars for different uses. The OP needs something to accommodate growing children. The Golf won’t work for that. The Golf is fine for short distances for shorter people but wouldn’t really be anyone’s choice for longer journeys or accommodating older children. Whichever model one looks at, Golfs are city cars. Panameras generally aren’t although I use my Turbo s daily to get in and out of London everyday and find it pretty easy to get on with and even fairly nippy.

You’re absolutely right about the GTS, it’s probably the most fun of all the Panameras. It’s quick enough for anyone as long as it’s driven fairly hard / the revs get used (surely the point in having an amazing NA engine). The Turbo and Turbo S are lazier and quite different propositions. I loved my GTS and also love my Turbo S but they’re very different.

Re: the E63 (had one), the M5 (tried one) and the RS6 (quite liked it) they all feel cheap next to a Panamera. No one can deny that the base cars for all three are 2 litre diesel rep mobiles and while they change suspension, engines, brakes, some trim, they don’t feel very nice generally. The new E63 in particular is a hard ride and very unrefined, which defeats the object of having a fast saloon in my mind. A Panamera, even from the previous generation is so far ahead in terms of NVH, it’s fairly laughable. The new M5 looks nice but has a real world range of around 300 miles, so not great for longer distances. The new E63 doesn’t have anywhere near as much legroom as a Panamera either. I’ve tried to like the E63 but it feels cheap, it’s bling, the engine is the typical AMG farty noise and it just shakes, rattles and rolls as the build quality is poor. That’s really why they’ll be ‘tuppence’ soon.

Maybe do a couple of thousand miles in each and you’ll see what I mean.

Edited by Mosdef on Sunday 31st March 00:21

[GT03ROB]

IMI A said:

Sorry buddy no offence. I’ve only driven a turbo s not a GTS so cant comment but I expect it’s more noisy with less grunt. Golf GTI a better car and more resolved car for me. I know it’s on a humble hot hatch but I’d put it as a better all round daily car then 991.2 turbo s, 9e 997 turbo and 993 Carrera RS all of which I have access to whenever I’m back in the UK. If I have to do anything other than drive for pure fun I always pick the keys up to the GTI. It’s just so easy and comfortable with its DSG etc. Perhaps I’m giving the Golf too much credit but I’d go as far as saying for me it’s probably the best dd car in the world. A Panny GTS wouldn’t even be mentioned in same breath as those other Porsche’s. In fact it’s a bit of an insult to them imo

........but you really are not making very good comparisons there to base your premise on. The Golf is designed as a capable daily car, a 911 is not. In addition to the cars in my profile I have a Fiat 500. 9 times out of 10 I pick up the keys to the Fiat. That really doesn't make it better than any of the others, other than for those drives. Most "ordinary" cars are tremendously capable day to day cars there is no doubt. But if all you want is a capable day to day car you are not buying a Panamera.

[Simonfraser181]

Thanks guys.
As originator of this thread, maybe I call time on one point, and clarify another.

Rule#1. Stop talking about Golfs. If I wanted a golf, I would have posted on VW forum! Lets keep this on track.
Rule#2. My questions as kind of simple, GTS vs Turbo. That's it....! Lets just say - right or wrong, the Mrs has already had her say on it - and Panny it will be (and who am I to complain).

Info: It is not to be a daily driver. It is replacing my 996tt which i have had for 4 years and just does ~1000 miles per year. Its a Sunday car, or for weekends away. Yes, its kind of fun, and fast enough of course. Just fancy a change, and cramped kids seems a good excuse to change now.
I have access to more than capable daily drivers and they are used for the usual daily commute.

Cheers
S

[IMI A]

Simonfraser181 said:

Thanks guys.
As originator of this thread, maybe I call time on one point, and clarify another.

Rule#1. Stop talking about Golfs. If I wanted a golf, I would have posted on VW forum! Lets keep this on track.
Rule#2. My questions as kind of simple, GTS vs Turbo. That's it....! Lets just say - right or wrong, the Mrs has already had her say on it - and Panny it will be (and who am I to complain).

Info: It is not to be a daily driver. It is replacing my 996tt which i have had for 4 years and just does ~1000 miles per year. Its a Sunday car, or for weekends away. Yes, its kind of fun, and fast enough of course. Just fancy a change, and cramped kids seems a good excuse to change now.
I have access to more than capable daily drivers and they are used for the usual daily commute.

Cheers
S

Ever so sorry Simon I misunderstood.

I think you should drive them both and make your own mind up. GTS models do always seem to be the best in the range judging from reviews. The engine and exhaust note in turbo s like a refined fast jet. As a weekend toy I expect the rorty exhaust note and 2wd of GTS should do the trick

[Mosdef]

IMI A said:

Simonfraser181 said:

Thanks guys.
As originator of this thread, maybe I call time on one point, and clarify another.

Rule#1. Stop talking about Golfs. If I wanted a golf, I would have posted on VW forum! Lets keep this on track.
Rule#2. My questions as kind of simple, GTS vs Turbo. That's it....! Lets just say - right or wrong, the Mrs has already had her say on it - and Panny it will be (and who am I to complain).

Info: It is not to be a daily driver. It is replacing my 996tt which i have had for 4 years and just does ~1000 miles per year. Its a Sunday car, or for weekends away. Yes, its kind of fun, and fast enough of course. Just fancy a change, and cramped kids seems a good excuse to change now.
I have access to more than capable daily drivers and they are used for the usual daily commute.

Cheers
S

Ever so sorry Simon I misunderstood.

I think you should drive them both and make your own mind up. GTS models do always seem to be the best in the range judging from reviews. The engine and exhaust note in turbo s like a refined fast jet. As a weekend toy I expect the rorty exhaust note and 2wd of GTS should do the trick

Have you ever driven one or just sat in one?

GTS is 4wd....

Turbo S isn’t that refined with the optional sports exhaust.

[Mosdef]

IMI A said:

Okay so a panny for me would be day to day car. What other use would it be? Special?

I’ve only been up and down motorway in current E63s and I didn’t find it too stiff at all on that journey. I didn’t notice bad fit and I’m fussy on build quality. Old E63 never appealed and was horrible styling wise. The same gen top of the line Panny back in 2014 I drove in similar circumstances had one of its carbon inserts on the dash glove box not fitting perfectly which I thought was a bit off. I also hear they suffer electronic gremlins and never to run one without a warranty but this is hearsay? Won’t go on about my fave hatch but I drive from outside London to Mayfair from time to time and it’s perfect and very comfortable in particular the leather sports seats which are just about the most comfortable drivers seat and position I've ever had.

The three AMG products currently in use (old and new G63 and GL63) have been amazing over 40,000 - 50,000 miles and 5-6 years. They’ still look as good as they day we bought them with 4 kids mauling them with food and dirt and the cars just shrug that wear and tear off. Happy to show you interiors any time and yes whilst tech a gen or 2 old it all works and never ever breaks. By contrast go and look at Porsche Cayenne or Macan and the leather in particular looks completely shagged after 40,000 miles of kids use and again electrical gremlins. Macan in particular really terrible wear and tear. I’d recommend AMG products to anyone. They are a bit Russian mafia.



Porsche has really diluted its brand. I struggle to see them as anything more than reconfigured VW products nowadays. Their cars do always tend to be best in class and yes if we are talking about new Panny I’d agree but come on last one was an ugly duckling. Nice place to sit inside though if you’re a daily commuter which I’m not.

Apologies for comparing the Panny to the humble Golf but I’d still say dynamically Golf knocks the socks of an old Panny on typical UK roads.

If I had to replace the Golf thinking about it it would probably be a new GLC 63s as UK roads so bad and you get flat tyres and bent wheels for fun on low profiles but then another gas guzzler and it’s nice to have at least one frugal car. I’ll be buying a Tesla next - not!

Panameras are daily cars more often than not.

I wouldn’t run a Panamera without a warranty but Golfs don’t have great reliability either.

Plenty of Mercedes AMGs have antico/ fake leather. It might wear well but looks naff and doesn’t feel great.

[Mosdef]

It’s ok IMI A, you don’t need to start sending me DMs about whether or not AMGs have fake leather and how ugly you think the Panamera is.

MB vinyl has been well known about for years, even on the GL. My E63 had vinyl, it was horrible.

Also, I thought you said you hated SUVs but now you say you’d swap the Golf for a GLC.

Enjoy your Sunday.

[Mosdef]

With four children and lots of travel, a big load lugger like the GL would be the best choice for you. A Panamera wouldn’t get close to that but neither would an M5, E63 saloon etc, despite being similarly sized to a Panamera. They’ve really grown and the new 5 is about the same size as the E38 7 series, so hardly a tiddler. Not sure a Golf would do too well either.

[Mosdef]

No need to keep DMing me. Surely with 4 children you’ve got better things to do on Mother’s Day than argue about whether you’re going to run your Golf for 100k, whether your GL has vinyl leather and rambling on about others being ‘Fanny’ fanboys.

Enjoy your Golf and looking like the Russian mafia (your words) in your ‘innit AMGs.

Someone just asked me whether they should buy a Range Rover but I’m suggesting they buy a Ford Focus instead. They’re not that different space wise and the Focus is such a complete car.

[Mosdef]

Thanks for the DM IMI A. Good luck with everything.

[David W.]

IMI A said:

Sorry buddy no offence. I’ve only driven a turbo s not a GTS so cant comment but I expect it’s more noisy with less grunt. Golf GTI a better car and more resolved car for me. I know it’s on a humble hot hatch but I’d put it as a better all round daily car then 991.2 turbo s, 9e 997 turbo and 993 Carrera RS all of which I have access to whenever I’m back in the UK. If I have to do anything other than drive for pure fun I always pick the keys up to the GTI. It’s just so easy and comfortable with its DSG etc. Perhaps I’m giving the Golf too much credit but I’d go as far as saying for me it’s probably the best dd car in the world. A Panny GTS wouldn’t even be mentioned in same breath as those other Porsche’s. In fact it’s a bit of an insult to them imo

I think we’re going around in circles here, the man likes Golfs, not Panameras.
Move on shall we.

[Mosdef]

David W. said:

I think we’re going around in circles here, the man likes Golfs, not Panameras.
Move on shall we.

Absolutely!

[Desert Dragon]

Mosdef said:

David W. said:

I think we’re going around in circles here, the man likes Golfs, not Panameras.
Move on shall we.

Absolutely!

Mosdef I think David W may be referring to you. Are you completely self unaware?

A Panemera a very strange choice as a weekend fun car. They’re very dull dailys.

[80sMatchbox]

Desert Dragon said:

Mosdef I think David W may be referring to you. Are you completely self unaware?

A Panemera a very strange choice as a weekend fun car. They’re very dull dailys.

The person who someone quotes is the person they are referring to. A bit like...this.

ps: Welcome to internet forums.

[David W.]

Desert Dragon said:

Mosdef I think David W may be referring to you. Are you completely self unaware?

A Panemera a very strange choice as a weekend fun car. They’re very dull dailys.

To be honest I’m not sure who I was referring to, some people love Panys, some not so much, we’re all different and lets face it, if “one” can afford a top Porsche model but chose not to = 1st world problem, and...... (getting back on track) someone else is the biggest Golf fan in the world.
Guess what, tommorow I pick up a 997TT Gen2, apparently, according to the internet of wise-ness they’re as boring a F**k!
DW

Edited by David W. on Sunday 31st March 17:14

Edited by David W. on Sunday 31st March 20:40

[Mosdef]

Desert Dragon said:

Mosdef I think David W may be referring to you. Are you completely self unaware?

A Panemera a very strange choice as a weekend fun car. They’re very dull dailys.

I thought I was offering some insight having owned both a GTS and a Turbo S (before having to endure a minor debate with the head of the Golf fan club, who started sending me weird emails for some reason).

Anyway, Panameras tend to have very different spec levels. I went from basic on my GTS to loaded on the current car and it changes the ownership experience somewhat. That said, it might not matter so much if the car is only for occasional use. I think I put the must haves / nice to haves on another recent thread but happy to answer any questions the OP might have about any of these.

[GT03ROB]

Mosdef said:

I thought I was offering some insight having owned both a GTS and a Turbo S (before having to endure a minor debate with the head of the Golf fan club, who started sending me weird emails for some reason).

Anyway, Panameras tend to have very different spec levels. I went from basic on my GTS to loaded on the current car and it changes the ownership experience somewhat. That said, it might not matter so much if the car is only for occasional use. I think I put the must haves / nice to haves on another recent thread but happy to answer any questions the OP might have about any of these.

Ph is a funny old place. Somebody comes on asking for a comparison between 2 versions of the same car. They start to get input from people who have experience of the versions then somebody comes on & out of left field offers an option that bares absolutely no resemblance to the car the original post was about.

Very odd place.

[Mosdef]

David W. said:

To be honest I’m not sure who I was referring to, some people love Panys, some not so much, we’re all different and lets face it, if “one” can afford a top Porsche model but chose not to = 1st world problem, and...... (getting back on track) someone else is the biggest Golf fan in the world.
Guess what, tommorow I pick up a 997TT Gen2, apparently, according to the internet of wisen-ess they’re as boring a F**k!
DW

Edited by David W. on Sunday 31st March 17:14

Enjoy!! It’s probably fashionable to call them boring as F**k. I suspect it’s a belting car but haven’t had the pleasure of driving one.

[David A]

My perspective

I do 12K plus a year, commute plus the odd long run up north or to devon.

I've had Maseratis as daily drivers
I then had (have) a 996 Turbo S (9e'd) as a daily
Then child came along so I bought a fully loaded Panamera 4S (gen 1)

Hence I'm used to silly cars used everyday when most wouldn't

The Panny is brilliant, I'd have another in heartbeat.

I only miss the outright power of the 996, hence if I had another I'd have a Turbo S panny. (I actually looked for one but the 4s was best condition for price etc etc)

Downside of the Panny is parking - 'tis bloody big.

We also have a 4x4 which is for load lugging, tip runs, garden centre/diy runs etc. I.e. don't mind it getting grubby!

GTS vs Turbo - go to a Porsche Panamera day at Silverstone - it was so good I'd probably pay for it if Porsche didn't give it to us. Only do this if they have the GTS and Turbo though or get a back to back drive at a Porsche dealership. My suspicion is the outright power of the Turbo S Panamera with Sports Exhaust will swing it.

My advice, find a way to keep the 996 - they're going up in value ya know !

[red997]

back on topic...
as you like the 996 tt, I'd be looking at the turbo pannys; you'll miss the low down grunt with the GTS
both are great, but given your history, my bet would be the turbo.
and if you want more a simple remap & plenum pushed you to around 700bhp, which is sub 3 seconds to 60 (as measured @ brunters on a vbox)