2016 Cayenne S diesel software recall - emissions
Discussion
So having trawled a few more forums, the software update seems to do the following
1. Auto stop start appears toe work in all sports mode settings
2. Sport plus mode only works whilst the car is being driven hard
3. 8th gear only works at 75mph+
It appears not to affect the performance overall, just they way the power can be used.
Are these assumptions right or am Ok missing something major?
1. Auto stop start appears toe work in all sports mode settings
2. Sport plus mode only works whilst the car is being driven hard
3. 8th gear only works at 75mph+
It appears not to affect the performance overall, just they way the power can be used.
Are these assumptions right or am Ok missing something major?
This is what I received from another guy who is concerned about the recall and has undertaken some investigation
Following extensive research the following is my honest opinion of the situation regarding the recall of Cayenne S Diesel vehicles;
You will have noted how in Porsche UK’s recall letter they have bent over backwards to dress this up this up as a simple “software update”, however this recall is a result of The German Federal Road Traffic Authority (KBA) identifying that Porsche AG illegally fitted emissions defeat/cheat devices in Cayenne S Diesels 2013-2018 and in March 2020 ordered Porsche AG to recall said vehicles. To demonstrate click on this link to the KBA website below
https://www.kba-online.de/gpsg/startServlet?adress...
Select ‘Porsche’ then enter the code ‘ALA1’ (which is the ALA recall code Porsche have printed at the top of their letter to customers). The search will give the KBA reference 008086 and wording; “Entfernung unzulässiger Abschalteinrichtungen bzw. der unzulässigen Reduzierung der Wirksamkeit des Emissionskontrollsystems”, which in English is “Removal of impermissible shutdown devices or the impermissible reduction in the effectiveness of the emission control system”. You will also see the date range for the vehicles affected is “2013-2018”.
Fitting these defeat devices as has been widely publicised over the whole VW Group was a criminal offence for which senior VW Group officers have gone to jail. Therefore it is pretty clear that VW / Porsche AG would not have done so if there were not some level of performance and/or economy gain. Hence common sense dictates that removal of these devices can only lead to deterioration of one or other parameter. Porsche AG will not supply details of exactly which parameters will be changed, (believe me I have tried!), and in my opinion this vale of mystery is calculated and for good reason. My research has shown that Porsche Cars GB don’t know much and are simply the messenger for Porsche AG and Porsche Centres know even less, so especially regarding the latter, asking PC’s for further details it is pretty pointless exercise.
I have been reliably informed by experts in the field that whichever method Porsche AG choose to overcome the NO2 emissions issues in our vehicles, it will be to the detriment of either performance, economy or more concerningly, the lifespan of the engine. Ref the latter and as an example, increasing the rail pressure which is one method that may be adopted, would likely be to the detriment of engine longevity.
Also it is important to note that currently whenever Sport + is selected, the ECU & gearbox settings etc. are ‘armed’ full time and basically the car is ‘ready for action’. The update is going to disable this and instead make it temporary by keeping Sport + on standby. Porsche claim the Sport + features will then be ‘available’ if the car senses you need it. Sport + currently being great for a quick getaway off the lights and personally I’m not convinced it can read my mind and know when I’m about to want maximum acceleration.
Following extensive research the following is my honest opinion of the situation regarding the recall of Cayenne S Diesel vehicles;
You will have noted how in Porsche UK’s recall letter they have bent over backwards to dress this up this up as a simple “software update”, however this recall is a result of The German Federal Road Traffic Authority (KBA) identifying that Porsche AG illegally fitted emissions defeat/cheat devices in Cayenne S Diesels 2013-2018 and in March 2020 ordered Porsche AG to recall said vehicles. To demonstrate click on this link to the KBA website below
https://www.kba-online.de/gpsg/startServlet?adress...
Select ‘Porsche’ then enter the code ‘ALA1’ (which is the ALA recall code Porsche have printed at the top of their letter to customers). The search will give the KBA reference 008086 and wording; “Entfernung unzulässiger Abschalteinrichtungen bzw. der unzulässigen Reduzierung der Wirksamkeit des Emissionskontrollsystems”, which in English is “Removal of impermissible shutdown devices or the impermissible reduction in the effectiveness of the emission control system”. You will also see the date range for the vehicles affected is “2013-2018”.
Fitting these defeat devices as has been widely publicised over the whole VW Group was a criminal offence for which senior VW Group officers have gone to jail. Therefore it is pretty clear that VW / Porsche AG would not have done so if there were not some level of performance and/or economy gain. Hence common sense dictates that removal of these devices can only lead to deterioration of one or other parameter. Porsche AG will not supply details of exactly which parameters will be changed, (believe me I have tried!), and in my opinion this vale of mystery is calculated and for good reason. My research has shown that Porsche Cars GB don’t know much and are simply the messenger for Porsche AG and Porsche Centres know even less, so especially regarding the latter, asking PC’s for further details it is pretty pointless exercise.
I have been reliably informed by experts in the field that whichever method Porsche AG choose to overcome the NO2 emissions issues in our vehicles, it will be to the detriment of either performance, economy or more concerningly, the lifespan of the engine. Ref the latter and as an example, increasing the rail pressure which is one method that may be adopted, would likely be to the detriment of engine longevity.
Also it is important to note that currently whenever Sport + is selected, the ECU & gearbox settings etc. are ‘armed’ full time and basically the car is ‘ready for action’. The update is going to disable this and instead make it temporary by keeping Sport + on standby. Porsche claim the Sport + features will then be ‘available’ if the car senses you need it. Sport + currently being great for a quick getaway off the lights and personally I’m not convinced it can read my mind and know when I’m about to want maximum acceleration.
Really don’t understand why 8th gear is only available at 75 mph...surely that makes emissions worse ? Also means that you can’t legally drive in 8th gear in this country which is f
king ridiculous.
Actually think if you went to an OPC and said “I don’t know what you’ve done to my car but 8th gear doesn’t work any more” and played dumb they’d have some explaining to do.
king ridiculous. Actually think if you went to an OPC and said “I don’t know what you’ve done to my car but 8th gear doesn’t work any more” and played dumb they’d have some explaining to do.
Cheib said:
Really don’t understand why 8th gear is only available at 75 mph...surely that makes emissions worse ? Also means that you can’t legally drive in 8th gear in this country which is fking ridiculous.
Actually think if you went to an OPC and said “I don’t know what you’ve done to my car but 8th gear doesn’t work any more” and played dumb they’d have some explaining to do.
Think the whole thing is a shambles and wish that a premium brand did not get embroiled in this all. king ridiculous. Actually think if you went to an OPC and said “I don’t know what you’ve done to my car but 8th gear doesn’t work any more” and played dumb they’d have some explaining to do.
I have an ongoing issue raised with Porsche GB and Porsche financial services and have raised a complaint via the financial ombudsman. Even with the small marker who have looked at this thread - one has commented it has deterred him from a purchase. So clearly prices will take a knock.
So Did some motorway miles this morning taking my son to football. Mine is a 2017 S Diesel, no Sports Chrono. My car changes up to 8th gear at about 67 mph if cursing/engine not under a lot of load. Holds 8th gear down to something like 63 mph when you slow down a bit (I could select 8th manually from 63mph). From memory the car used to change into 8th around 57 mph under similar circumstances.
Cheib said:
So Did some motorway miles this morning taking my son to football. Mine is a 2017 S Diesel, no Sports Chrono. My car changes up to 8th gear at about 67 mph if cursing/engine not under a lot of load. Holds 8th gear down to something like 63 mph when you slow down a bit (I could select 8th manually from 63mph). From memory the car used to change into 8th around 57 mph under similar circumstances.
I’m most disappointed about car not getting into 8th as soon as it used to. Does this also mean that it doesn’t go into glide mode as often? timfr said:
Interestingly I see that there is a legal firm advertising for people to sign up to a "group action" relating to the Macan and both V6 and V8 diesel Cayenne. There was also a class action case secured against Porsche/VW in Canada relating to the V6 emissions.
I bought one of these about 2 weeks ago from a non OPC source. Didn't actually realise it had an 8th gear till I read this thread............ Wish I'd known about this pre purchase! Pls can you tell us which firm of lawyers is looking at aclass action! ThanksGTSjohn said:
I bought one of these about 2 weeks ago from a non OPC source. Didn't actually realise it had an 8th gear till I read this thread............ Wish I'd known about this pre purchase! Pls can you tell us which firm of lawyers is looking at aclass action! Thanks
So apart from not getting into 8th, I guess you haven't gone past 75. What do you think of the car? I'm talking to the OPC I'm dealing with tomorrow, and still not sure whether to pass or continue with negotiationsInteresting to read this thread. I’m on the lookout for a Cayenne to replace my petrol MacanS and have toyed with the idea of a TDV8 car. After reading this and seeing there are huge amounts of dervs in OPC Stock, it makes me wonder whether the dealers are being forced to either take them in against issues or people are handing them back in their droves at the end of the PCPs.
There’s some really nicely specced machines online but given what I’m reading here, I think I’ll be sticking with petrol for the next car/Porsche.
There’s some really nicely specced machines online but given what I’m reading here, I think I’ll be sticking with petrol for the next car/Porsche.
David W. said:
My observations this morning. Vehicle fully up to temp, level roads, constant accelerator inputs, car does not have sports+.
It drops into 8th sooner 70-71 in sport than comfort 75-77! The reverse of what you would expect.
In manual in both sport and comfort it will change up to 8th at 62 and hang onto 8th down to 60-61, no change up to 8th in the 50s possible.
Other observations I have a change up indicator, hadn’t realised this but instruction book mentions it so it was always there.
Other observation, what bl**dy good cars these are, the only thing that might replace it is new v8 Cayenne GTS (but not coupe) as tested by YouTube Remove Before Race this week, but without alcantara accents and houndstooth seats as the white would get grubby in a work vehicle.
Hope this helps.
Thanks David. My car at OPC now so will report back when I know more.It drops into 8th sooner 70-71 in sport than comfort 75-77! The reverse of what you would expect.
In manual in both sport and comfort it will change up to 8th at 62 and hang onto 8th down to 60-61, no change up to 8th in the 50s possible.
Other observations I have a change up indicator, hadn’t realised this but instruction book mentions it so it was always there.
Other observation, what bl**dy good cars these are, the only thing that might replace it is new v8 Cayenne GTS (but not coupe) as tested by YouTube Remove Before Race this week, but without alcantara accents and houndstooth seats as the white would get grubby in a work vehicle.
Hope this helps.
Edited by David W. on Saturday 12th December 17:55
Cheib said:
Not sure about the “huge amounts” ? OPC’s have got 17 S Diesel’s..no idea how many they sold but I’d guess a few thousand,
Agreed. Perhaps an over exaggeration but in comparison to petrol cars, a significant amount. That said, I take note of the fact I think diesels accounted for 80% of sales so all relative. Malo said:
So apart from not getting into 8th, I guess you haven't gone past 75. What do you think of the car? I'm talking to the OPC I'm dealing with tomorrow, and still not sure whether to pass or continue with negotiations
Its actually very good! I collected it in Leicester and drove it back to East Lothain (essential travel officer). Lots of roadworks and average speed cameras on M1. I did (ahem) venture north of 75 once past Wetherby, but to be honest wasn't looking at the gear read out so can't remember if I got into 8th or not. Must look next time I go into Edinburgh on the A1.........All that aside, it's smooth and relaxing when you want but flies in the mid range if you want to play the hooligan. Corners ridiculously well for something so heavy. Way better than the wife's Q7 for example. Mine has 18 way seats, which are superb - easily the most comfortable I've had in any car period - much better than the adaptive sports in my 997GTS, which I thought were pretty good before I tried the Cayenne. Got out after my 5 hour drive home feeling fresh as a daisy. Also has PASM and the pano roof which were "must haves" for me. Averages 33ish MPG too. Would highly recommend actually.....
They are remarkably good cars, ours is having a couple of bits done under warranty and they gave us a brand new macan to use.
I was quite excited about it until i drove it, its still nice and it is 5 years newer but it isn't as nice or as good as the cayenne. Different level totally.
Macan probably handles better and turn in is better but it doesnt feel as good (air on the cayenne) and it just feels less premium overall. Not to mention the monster torque of the cayenne.
I was quite excited about it until i drove it, its still nice and it is 5 years newer but it isn't as nice or as good as the cayenne. Different level totally.
Macan probably handles better and turn in is better but it doesnt feel as good (air on the cayenne) and it just feels less premium overall. Not to mention the monster torque of the cayenne.
So report on yesterdays visit to OPC. I need to be fair to them and tell the whole story.
They asked me about driving habits over past few months, which have mainly been short runs locally since March due to lockdown, probably 5 miles ma each journey. Occasional short run on local DC NSL but only a couple of miles. Never really reaching optimum fluid temps or operating revs.
They promised to extract data, and take a test drive. Lent me a new Macan for the day (nowhere near as good as the Cayenne).
When I returned to collect, they told me the data showed an excess of sooting in the system, which indicates that I had not been doing sufficient distances and speeds to start the sooting regeneration operation. To operate the regen system efficiently the car needs "regular" runs at operating temperatures and between 1500 and 3000rpm. I had to admit that I hadn't been doing that, probably since last March. The sooting causes the engine to run at higher revs than normal to try to get the regen working - which would explain holding 8th until 75mph. I do know about regen in diesels, but hadn't occured to me that this could be the problem.
They had taken it for a suitable run, and eventually it started dropping into 8th at 67mph. Problem solved. They also explained that there is no way it can take 8th below 60 - the revs are just not high enough. Left on good terms.
Used the M4 on the way home, and exactly as they said, now taking 8th at 66/67 under cruising conditions and gentle accelaration. Will hold on to 7th for longer if being "enthusiastic" with the right pedal.
Paul
They asked me about driving habits over past few months, which have mainly been short runs locally since March due to lockdown, probably 5 miles ma each journey. Occasional short run on local DC NSL but only a couple of miles. Never really reaching optimum fluid temps or operating revs.
They promised to extract data, and take a test drive. Lent me a new Macan for the day (nowhere near as good as the Cayenne).
When I returned to collect, they told me the data showed an excess of sooting in the system, which indicates that I had not been doing sufficient distances and speeds to start the sooting regeneration operation. To operate the regen system efficiently the car needs "regular" runs at operating temperatures and between 1500 and 3000rpm. I had to admit that I hadn't been doing that, probably since last March. The sooting causes the engine to run at higher revs than normal to try to get the regen working - which would explain holding 8th until 75mph. I do know about regen in diesels, but hadn't occured to me that this could be the problem.
They had taken it for a suitable run, and eventually it started dropping into 8th at 67mph. Problem solved. They also explained that there is no way it can take 8th below 60 - the revs are just not high enough. Left on good terms.
Used the M4 on the way home, and exactly as they said, now taking 8th at 66/67 under cruising conditions and gentle accelaration. Will hold on to 7th for longer if being "enthusiastic" with the right pedal.
Paul
An interesting and satisfactory result Nutsy.
I did have a particulate filter (I think it was) warning come up a while ago which resulted in me giving the car an Italian tuneup and haven’t seen it again. I have to do similar with my wife’s Freelander which includes heavy braking as they suffer from under use too!
I did have a particulate filter (I think it was) warning come up a while ago which resulted in me giving the car an Italian tuneup and haven’t seen it again. I have to do similar with my wife’s Freelander which includes heavy braking as they suffer from under use too!
Edited by David W. on Tuesday 15th December 19:11
David W. said:
An interesting and satisfactory result Nutsy.
I did have a particulate filter (I think it was) warning come up a while ago which resulted in me giving the car an Italian tuneup and haven’t seem it again. I have to do similar with my wife’s Freelander which includes heavy braking as they suffer from under use too!
DavidI did have a particulate filter (I think it was) warning come up a while ago which resulted in me giving the car an Italian tuneup and haven’t seem it again. I have to do similar with my wife’s Freelander which includes heavy braking as they suffer from under use too!
Like the "Italian Tune Up". Must try that more often
Further to my car negotiations, it now appears if I buy the car I have to sign to say I understand that should further software mods be required, I have to allow them. Also if the car is 'banned' for some reason in the future,Porsche will buy back the car if this happens up to and including 4 years from purchase at various percentages based upon age.
This all says to me that further changes are likely to come along??
If anyone wants a copy of the documents just advise your email.
Based upon this I don't think I'll be moving forward on this particular purchase.
This all says to me that further changes are likely to come along??
If anyone wants a copy of the documents just advise your email.
Based upon this I don't think I'll be moving forward on this particular purchase.
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