When is a Clubsport Not a Clubsport

When is a Clubsport Not a Clubsport

Author
Discussion

Waylander

Original Poster:

24 posts

67 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
A CS with original hard back buckets is the most expensive version

To be absolutely honest having driven loads of these coupe sport CS, it’s almost impossible to tell which one your driving

But nothing stopping you fitting buckets to a sport?

The last set of genuine hard back seats that came up for sale went for £3000!

jakeb

235 posts

161 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
Buckets are stupid expensive secondhand. A standard pole position or SPG is not the same thing.

The originals are based on the Pole Position ABE as they are wider. You cant get the original covers either without the silly RECARO logo tattooed to the head rest. The majority of original CS seats are also "sprung" - have a damper mat under the bottom cushion. Only they very early MY93 cars have two bottom cushions.

Recaro actually make some quite nice classic bucket seats now but again they don't have the same cloths and the actual design is slightly different.

A Sport with classic recaros is quite a nice proposition

https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/classic/recar...


dgsf76

4 posts

62 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
8-P said:
This is a Sport but I dont think it was ever masqueraded as anything but a Sport. Good on them.



https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1141123
Excellent and factually accurate advert.

Thanks Waylander for starting this thread.

This thread is not about which variant is best; they are all very good as far as I’m concerned. Or indeed a forum for debate about whether the 968 is a good car or not. That is all personal opinion and irrelevant.

It is about providing a reference resource for those in the market for a 968 that can arm folks to prevent the fraudulent misrepresentation that is evident in some quarters of the independent dealer network.

It’s just too easy and tempting for unscrupulous dealers to pass a sport off as a CS and one has to assume that is purely for commercial gain.

So Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware. But there are folk out there who will be happy to provide the benefit of their experience, if required.



Waylander

Original Poster:

24 posts

67 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
Thanks for that,

That was the whole idea, to stop fellow enthusiasts who maybe in the market for a 968, getting relieved of 10k extra of their hard earned cash

To give a guide

A very good low miles coupe 12-15
A very good low miles Sport 15-20
A very good low miles CS 25-35

Very easy for the dealer to Chuck a badge and some stickers on, show a certificate, make up some fluff about the Lux Pack

And pocket a 10k profit for misrepresenting a car

Not far short of fraud really,

Buyers do your homework, there are plenty of folks that know these cars to help, on special 968 forums and of course Porsche Club GB

And real CS only came in
Black
White
Blue
Yellow
Red



Edited by Waylander on Saturday 20th February 10:25

blade7

10,420 posts

183 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
dgsf76 said:
This thread is not about which variant is best;
Who made you the thread Policeman? IMO putting a CS with comfort options on a pedestal above a Sport is nonsense. A CS with hardback seats, sunroof delete, MO30 and a LSD is the spec worth having. And for the record a similar spec 944 S2 is lighter, and the heavier 944 turbo is faster. Buy a 968 because it's a great car, but don't kid yourself that a CS was more special, or anything but a cost cutting exercise because Porsche couldn't shift 968's.

Speedyell

4 posts

62 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
My apologies. There was no intention of being a policeman.

The OP and many of the contributors are trying to make a co-ordinated effort to address potential fraud, nothing else. As far as I'm aware, no-one is making any claims to put anything on a pedestal above anything else - just highlighting that some vendors are engaging in misrepresentation.

That's all, nothing else.

I am reminded why I don't bother with these forums.

Have a happy life.


Penguinracer

1,069 posts

173 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
The Recaro Classic Pole Position ABE is the same design as was used in the 964RS...different to the standard Pole Position ABE.

jakeb

235 posts

161 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
From the Porsche seats catalogue, the 964 RS seat is the same as the very early 968CS seat but in several tones of leather.

The later 968 seat is the same as the 964 speedster with the damping mat but again in cloth

The classic recaro has a different design of seat back cushion which goes further up the shell.

https://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/originalpart...

search for "bucket"

ChrisW.

4,078 posts

222 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
Yes the seat in the 964RS had cushions laid directly onto the composite frame structure of the seat.

The 993RS seat had fabric sprung above the composite frame structure and the cushions were laid on this.

From what you have said it sounds like the earlier 968CS had 964RS seats and the later 968CS had 993RS seats.

It's my understanding also that the early CS cars came with Cup 1 wheels whilst the later ones came with Cup 2.

Almost uniquely for Porsche they chose to reduce the price of the 968CS ... contrary to the more expensive 964RS / 993RS which were stripped but to be improved in many other areas ... was the 968CS also ?

I think this is a very useful and interesting thread ... I hope my recollections compliment this.


blade7

10,420 posts

183 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
Speedyell said:
My apologies. There was no intention of being a policeman.

The OP and many of the contributors are trying to make a co-ordinated effort to address potential fraud, nothing else. As far as I'm aware, no-one is making any claims to put anything on a pedestal above anything else - just highlighting that some vendors are engaging in misrepresentation.

That's all, nothing else.

I am reminded why I don't bother with these forums.

Have a happy life.

2 usernames on one thread, naughty.

unclepezza

786 posts

110 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all


My old car, long gone!

Just to confuse things even more mine had a sunroof with electric windows and electric boot release, along with the cable release.

Waylander

Original Poster:

24 posts

67 months

Saturday 20th February
quotequote all
ChrisW. said:
Yes the seat in the 964RS had cushions laid directly onto the composite frame structure of the seat.

The 993RS seat had fabric sprung above the composite frame structure and the cushions were laid on this.

From what you have said it sounds like the earlier 968CS had 964RS seats and the later 968CS had 993RS seats.

It's my understanding also that the early CS cars came with Cup 1 wheels whilst the later ones came with Cup 2.

Almost uniquely for Porsche they chose to reduce the price of the 968CS ... contrary to the more expensive 964RS / 993RS which were stripped but to be improved in many other areas ... was the 968CS also ?

I think this is a very useful and interesting thread ... I hope my recollections compliment this.
In answer to the last part about improvements, I am afraid you will be disappointed, other than weight loss and 20mm lower, it was the same as a standard coupe,

No change in engine or gearing or spring rates

The only other option was the M030 package, adjustable Koni dampers and bigger anti roll bars and larger radial brakes

There are very few factory cars with the M030 option as it was a very expensive option, there are plenty of cars with the parts fitted later.

Very few original CS cars left, and the really good ones are in collections



jakeb

235 posts

161 months

Sunday 21st February
quotequote all
ChrisW. said:
Yes the seat in the 964RS had cushions laid directly onto the composite frame structure of the seat.

The 993RS seat had fabric sprung above the composite frame structure and the cushions were laid on this.

From what you have said it sounds like the earlier 968CS had 964RS seats and the later 968CS had 993RS seats.

It's my understanding also that the early CS cars came with Cup 1 wheels whilst the later ones came with Cup 2.

Almost uniquely for Porsche they chose to reduce the price of the 968CS ... contrary to the more expensive 964RS / 993RS which were stripped but to be improved in many other areas ... was the 968CS also ?

I think this is a very useful and interesting thread ... I hope my recollections compliment this.
The seats changed in the CS around March 93 so you could look at it that the 993RS had 968CS seats smile

I dont know if the early 964 Speedster had the same issue with sprung v unsprung seats. They show as sprung in the brochure and both were launched at the same time (Oct92). There were perhaps supply issues with Recaro.

Model year 1993 (Build date Oct92-July93) is CUP1 wheels and NO option to put rear seats in the car (wp0zzz96zps815xxx)
Model year 1994 onwards (Approx Sept93 onwards) CUP2 wheels (wp0zzz96zrs815xxx, wp0zzz96zss815xxx)

Edited by jakeb on Sunday 21st February 06:23


Edited by jakeb on Sunday 21st February 06:26

8-P

2,667 posts

227 months

Sunday 21st February
quotequote all
blade7 said:
Speedyell said:
My apologies. There was no intention of being a policeman.

The OP and many of the contributors are trying to make a co-ordinated effort to address potential fraud, nothing else. As far as I'm aware, no-one is making any claims to put anything on a pedestal above anything else - just highlighting that some vendors are engaging in misrepresentation.

That's all, nothing else.

I am reminded why I don't bother with these forums.

Have a happy life.

2 usernames on one thread, naughty.
Naughty? Who made you the thread Policeman biggrin

8-P

2,667 posts

227 months

Sunday 21st February
quotequote all
Im pretty sure there have been at least 2 amaranth(sp?) cars

This one



https://www.cameronsportscars.com/vehicle-details/...

and this one that appeared at 4Star a while back


Waylander

Original Poster:

24 posts

67 months

Sunday 21st February
quotequote all
Possibly, hard to judge from front on shots, but with everything Porsche, if you have the money anything is possible


blade7

10,420 posts

183 months

Sunday 21st February
quotequote all
8-P said:
Naughty? Who made you the thread Policeman biggrin
On this thread you may address me as CS blade7 (Chief Superintendent) smile.

8-P

2,667 posts

227 months

Sunday 21st February
quotequote all
blade7 said:
On this thread you may address me as CS blade7 (Chief Superintendent) smile.
rofl

Waylander

Original Poster:

24 posts

67 months

Sunday 21st February
quotequote all
Well now we have decided that this is not a 944 thread, and hopefully any 968 buyers are now much more aware of the situation for getting pickpocketed for loads of cash

There a black sport currently for sale as a CS, along with the others already shown

It’s now quite possible that there are more CS clones than sports, so the U.K. only sport is the rarer car

Or you could save a bunch and buy a boring nobody wants coupe, stick some new suspension on it and still have a great car




GTSjohn

88 posts

60 months

Sunday 21st February
quotequote all
Waylander said:
Thanks for that,

That was the whole idea, to stop fellow enthusiasts who maybe in the market for a 968, getting relieved of 10k extra of their hard earned cash

To give a guide

A very good low miles coupe 12-15
A very good low miles Sport 15-20
A very good low miles CS 25-35

Very easy for the dealer to Chuck a badge and some stickers on, show a certificate, make up some fluff about the Lux Pack

And pocket a 10k profit for misrepresenting a car

Not far short of fraud really,

Buyers do your homework, there are plenty of folks that know these cars to help, on special 968 forums and of course Porsche Club GB

And real CS only came in
Black
White
Blue
Yellow
Red



Edited by Waylander on Saturday 20th February 10:25
Just to be contrarian, I had a "real" CS - M139 MNC (current owner is on here) which was Amethyst and I assume a PTS special order. It also had comfort seats and (iirc) a sunroof.............sold it to a mate for £13k in about 2003 with 57k on it as I'd bought a 996 and it wasn't getting used much. Top of my list of cars I should have kept!