Buying a hot rod air-cooled 911
Discussion
Do PHers agree that with this kind of project car ,there seems to be a tendency for owners to invest a lot of time and money in birthing them, proclaim "I will never sell it. You will have to pry the keys out of my cold, dead hands", then 3 months after the car has been completed, put it up for sale? Chris Harris Tuthill's "green snotter" is a case in point but I'm aware of a few others. These cars usually have performance in spades, a special soundtrack, look brilliant and have taken 2-3 years to realise: every reason you would choose to keep said car for 5+ years.
Putting to one side the usual change in circumstances, if it is in fact a thing, I dont get it.
Putting to one side the usual change in circumstances, if it is in fact a thing, I dont get it.
Edited by mattb46 on Monday 3rd September 18:57
Just to clarify that this is not pointed in RB's direction.
For some guys the fun is in the creation of that special project.
Once completed something else takes your fancy and you move onto the next car / project.
Sometimes it just does not live up to the hope or expectation.
I have built quite a number of 911's over the years and there is usually something or other that does not quite hit the mark.
It could be the feel, comfort, handling, power, a change in taste or direction.
Any number of things.
The quest to find that petrolhead nirvana.
A question for those with far more experience than me.
My first experience of ceramic brakes.
They lack initial bite.
Is this the norm ?
Do they always need some heat to get them to work effectively ?.
On the road you just cannot do that.
Come off a motorway cruise. Blast down a bit of dual carriageway and hit the brakes and think not impressed or oh s
t in short.
You cannot pre heat them all of the time.
The six pot bembo's with steels on the Hellcat give massive bite all of the time.
Braking limited only by tyre grip from really big speed.
I know completely off topic but I thought I would ask.
For some guys the fun is in the creation of that special project.
Once completed something else takes your fancy and you move onto the next car / project.
Sometimes it just does not live up to the hope or expectation.
I have built quite a number of 911's over the years and there is usually something or other that does not quite hit the mark.
It could be the feel, comfort, handling, power, a change in taste or direction.
Any number of things.
The quest to find that petrolhead nirvana.
A question for those with far more experience than me.
My first experience of ceramic brakes.
They lack initial bite.
Is this the norm ?
Do they always need some heat to get them to work effectively ?.
On the road you just cannot do that.
Come off a motorway cruise. Blast down a bit of dual carriageway and hit the brakes and think not impressed or oh s
t in short.You cannot pre heat them all of the time.
The six pot bembo's with steels on the Hellcat give massive bite all of the time.
Braking limited only by tyre grip from really big speed.
I know completely off topic but I thought I would ask.
IMI A said:
Thats lovely Yellow. My 12 yr old son built one of these a few years ago - bit smaller mind - he'll be at Brands tomorrow with his his Mother in her Gulf Blue 991 turbo. Both Porsche daft
,just tell him one day you ! never know!I kept my project car for 16 years, so I can hardly be accused of selling it 3 months after completion
It was in a finished state for at least the last 5 years of my ownership and did trips to the Alps (x2), Slovenia and the Pyrenees in its final state. I do take the point that the journey is a big part of it for some - and yes, that does apply to me. On the other hand, I built my 987 "CS-type" toy in about 3 months and have no plans to sell it for a good while. Maybe the journey was important to me but is now less so.
It was in a finished state for at least the last 5 years of my ownership and did trips to the Alps (x2), Slovenia and the Pyrenees in its final state. I do take the point that the journey is a big part of it for some - and yes, that does apply to me. On the other hand, I built my 987 "CS-type" toy in about 3 months and have no plans to sell it for a good while. Maybe the journey was important to me but is now less so.
Yellow491 said:
IMI A said:
Thats lovely Yellow. My 12 yr old son built one of these a few years ago - bit smaller mind - he'll be at Brands tomorrow with his his Mother in her Gulf Blue 991 turbo. Both Porsche daft
,just tell him one day you ! never know!Yellow491 said:
IMI A said:
Thats lovely Yellow. My 12 yr old son built one of these a few years ago - bit smaller mind - he'll be at Brands tomorrow with his his Mother in her Gulf Blue 991 turbo. Both Porsche daft
,just tell him one day you ! never know!
generationx said:
Yellow491 said:
IMI A said:
Thats lovely Yellow. My 12 yr old son built one of these a few years ago - bit smaller mind - he'll be at Brands tomorrow with his his Mother in her Gulf Blue 991 turbo. Both Porsche daft
,just tell him one day you ! never know!
911-32 said:
Given I am the RB that used to own "RB's hot rod", I would be more than happy to answer any questions about the car. I venture I know a tad more about it after 16 yrs of owning it than one or 2 others. I (clearly) have no dog in this fight other than a little sentimental attachment, so I can be pretty candid.
I wrote the advert when I sold it a year ago and the current owner (a nice chap BTW and a real car enthusiast who has owned some pretty decent Pork and lots of other cool cars) has re-used the copy. He is reluctantly selling due to a change in circumstance. It is a fantastic car if you like real, raw, air cooled old stuff. It delivers some massive highs and for the last 10 years was used almost exclusively on the road and pretty low miles. At the risk of the commentators curse, its bulletproof. It's like the farmer's axe - everything was replaced on the car with a view to making it reliable on long trips. And BTW, it sold for a lot more than whoever suggested £30k as a realistic value. Yes, it appeals to a limited market, but £30k would barely buy you an engine plus a set 8/9x16 inch Fuchs these days.
Last thought for now, I don't pretend to know the technicalities, but I think the right description for the car is "condition inspected", which is different from Cat D. Yes/No? I had it condition inspected by Autolign, so I think its off the register. I may be wrong. I disclosed it all when I sold in any event to avoid confusion.
Out of interest what would you say a trade bid be on a car like your old hot rod? It’s a very nice car I love it .I wrote the advert when I sold it a year ago and the current owner (a nice chap BTW and a real car enthusiast who has owned some pretty decent Pork and lots of other cool cars) has re-used the copy. He is reluctantly selling due to a change in circumstance. It is a fantastic car if you like real, raw, air cooled old stuff. It delivers some massive highs and for the last 10 years was used almost exclusively on the road and pretty low miles. At the risk of the commentators curse, its bulletproof. It's like the farmer's axe - everything was replaced on the car with a view to making it reliable on long trips. And BTW, it sold for a lot more than whoever suggested £30k as a realistic value. Yes, it appeals to a limited market, but £30k would barely buy you an engine plus a set 8/9x16 inch Fuchs these days.
Last thought for now, I don't pretend to know the technicalities, but I think the right description for the car is "condition inspected", which is different from Cat D. Yes/No? I had it condition inspected by Autolign, so I think its off the register. I may be wrong. I disclosed it all when I sold in any event to avoid confusion.
SRT Hellcat said:
Just to clarify that this is not pointed in RB's direction.
For some guys the fun is in the creation of that special project.
Once completed something else takes your fancy and you move onto the next car / project.
Sometimes it just does not live up to the hope or expectation.
I have built quite a number of 911's over the years and there is usually something or other that does not quite hit the mark.
It could be the feel, comfort, handling, power, a change in taste or direction.
Any number of things.
The quest to find that petrolhead nirvana.
A question for those with far more experience than me.
My first experience of ceramic brakes.
They lack initial bite.
Is this the norm ?
Do they always need some heat to get them to work effectively ?.
On the road you just cannot do that.
Come off a motorway cruise. Blast down a bit of dual carriageway and hit the brakes and think not impressed or oh st in short.
You cannot pre heat them all of the time.
The six pot bembo's with steels on the Hellcat give massive bite all of the time.
Braking limited only by tyre grip from really big speed.
I know completely off topic but I thought I would ask.
New ceramics are far better but P 997 and F 458 generation cars ceramics need some heat so can lead to some scary moments if you need to jump on them straight away. Had a heart attack when I needed some proper braking first time out in a 458 after going hard through the gears! On the 991.2 best ceramics I've ever experienced.For some guys the fun is in the creation of that special project.
Once completed something else takes your fancy and you move onto the next car / project.
Sometimes it just does not live up to the hope or expectation.
I have built quite a number of 911's over the years and there is usually something or other that does not quite hit the mark.
It could be the feel, comfort, handling, power, a change in taste or direction.
Any number of things.
The quest to find that petrolhead nirvana.
A question for those with far more experience than me.
My first experience of ceramic brakes.
They lack initial bite.
Is this the norm ?
Do they always need some heat to get them to work effectively ?.
On the road you just cannot do that.
Come off a motorway cruise. Blast down a bit of dual carriageway and hit the brakes and think not impressed or oh s
t in short.You cannot pre heat them all of the time.
The six pot bembo's with steels on the Hellcat give massive bite all of the time.
Braking limited only by tyre grip from really big speed.
I know completely off topic but I thought I would ask.
[quote=mattb46]Do PHers agree that with this kind of project car ,there seems to be a tendency for owners to invest a lot of time and money in birthing them, proclaim "I will never sell it. You will have to pry the keys out of my cold, dead hands", then 3 months after the car has been completed, put it up for sale? Chris Harris Tuthill's "green snotter" is a case in point but I'm aware of a few others. These cars usually have performance in spades, a special soundtrack, look brilliant and have taken 2-3 years to realise: every reason you would choose to keep said car for 5+ years.
Putting to one side the usual change in circumstances, if it is in fact a thing, I dont get it.
This situation does seem to happen quite a lot. I think some people fall into a trap when building their ideal car, especially mechanically.
All those goodies and sudective claims in various magazines become must haves for a build. Fancy rose jointed suspension, trick dampers, no sound deadening, big horsepower engines etc etc. The end result can of course be superb but in many cases what works on paper can be a hard riding and noisy pig on the road. Add in an engine that needs to be cained everywhere just to make decent progress and again it doesn't work for many on UK roads.
Putting to one side the usual change in circumstances, if it is in fact a thing, I dont get it.
This situation does seem to happen quite a lot. I think some people fall into a trap when building their ideal car, especially mechanically.
All those goodies and sudective claims in various magazines become must haves for a build. Fancy rose jointed suspension, trick dampers, no sound deadening, big horsepower engines etc etc. The end result can of course be superb but in many cases what works on paper can be a hard riding and noisy pig on the road. Add in an engine that needs to be cained everywhere just to make decent progress and again it doesn't work for many on UK roads.
Edited by ras62 on Tuesday 4th September 11:58
IMI A said:
Out of interest what would you say a trade bid be on a car like your old hot rod? It’s a very nice car I love it .
Its straight, no rust, rebuilt motor and a G50. Forget all the other expensive bits for a second (wheels, brakes, diff, suspension) and try buying anything similar for under £50k. So, in my mind even a trade bid starts with a 4.Even if a buyer wants more of a tourer, they should value the fundamentals of a sound, fast, sorted car. You can pull the cage out, add back more sound deadening and quieter muffler, normal seat belts maybe add heating pads to the seats and you are good to go. The graphics are stickers and a flat lid or ducktail is peanuts if you don't like a big tail.
911-32 said:
IMI A said:
Out of interest what would you say a trade bid be on a car like your old hot rod? It’s a very nice car I love it .
Its straight, no rust, rebuilt motor and a G50. Forget all the other expensive bits for a second (wheels, brakes, diff, suspension) and try buying anything similar for under £50k. So, in my mind even a trade bid starts with a 4.Even if a buyer wants more of a tourer, they should value the fundamentals of a sound, fast, sorted car. You can pull the cage out, add back more sound deadening and quieter muffler, normal seat belts maybe add heating pads to the seats and you are good to go. The graphics are stickers and a flat lid or ducktail is peanuts if you don't like a big tail.
It was fantastic on track. The diff was like a 993RS - meaning assymetric on accel and decal lock up rates and gave it tremendous traction. The brakes were 964 size discs and calipers with PF97 pads and in a light car were some of the best I have ever used in terms of bite and feel. On 888s with the wide track and stiff suspension it had weight transfer very well controlled and could generate decent mid corner pace. All the polybronze and monoball bits made the steering very light and precise. G50 gearbox is fairly idiot proof and the ratios were better on track than on the road where they are a tad long. The engine had throttle response almost like an old fashioned MFI motor as I had a LW aluminium pressure plate and LW 930S spring centred clutch which combined felt like a LW flywheel, The Supercup cams let it breath up to 7k rpm and the 964 plastic intake (with resonance flap and Bosch motorsport MAF replacing the old AFM) and 1 5/8 equal length primary exhaust gave it good tq as well as a freerer breathing top end. It made over 280hp and 245lbft IIRC and redline was just over 7000rpm.
The car was a joy and it was incredibly easy and intuitive to drive. Its all in the advert.
Back when I did a fair few track days, you could hang out on the same piece of track as mates in 964RS and mk1 GT3s. You ultimately wouldn't win a race but at track day speeds you could all drive together for 30 mins and not feel like anyone was being held up. Similarly, on the road it was happy to cover ground in the company of 3.0RSR race cars on a Bergmeister type trip.
The car was a joy and it was incredibly easy and intuitive to drive. Its all in the advert.
Back when I did a fair few track days, you could hang out on the same piece of track as mates in 964RS and mk1 GT3s. You ultimately wouldn't win a race but at track day speeds you could all drive together for 30 mins and not feel like anyone was being held up. Similarly, on the road it was happy to cover ground in the company of 3.0RSR race cars on a Bergmeister type trip.
BTW, I do have another old 911. Currently in resto, which is another (long) story.
The 987 (also modified) does 90% of the highlights on a long trip and has air con and top down plus points. And I can park it at the station or supermarket or wherever and not feel overly concerned about it. It can't hit the absolute highs but can deliver them more often for a fraction of the cost. Two things let down a 987 - no LSD and the brakes feel a bit rubbish even with race pads.
The 987 (also modified) does 90% of the highlights on a long trip and has air con and top down plus points. And I can park it at the station or supermarket or wherever and not feel overly concerned about it. It can't hit the absolute highs but can deliver them more often for a fraction of the cost. Two things let down a 987 - no LSD and the brakes feel a bit rubbish even with race pads.
Yellow491 said:
Wicked car robbo,a 2.5 or 2.8 engine to original spec as in correct period parts will run you a min a cool 100k now.
Just put straight through megaphones on my 2.8 ready for brands hatch this weekend,40 special cars on display and a few laps.,cant wait for the drive by db meter.[url]
Big brother!
|https://thumbsnap.com/5muPYra6[/url]
Yellow491 - Is that GT3 in the background yours? I used to own it!Just put straight through megaphones on my 2.8 ready for brands hatch this weekend,40 special cars on display and a few laps.
,cant wait for the drive by db meter.[url]Big brother!
|https://thumbsnap.com/5muPYra6[/url]Edited by Yellow491 on Wednesday 29th August 20:53
IMI A said:
New ceramics are far better but P 997 and F 458 generation cars ceramics need some heat so can lead to some scary moments if you need to jump on them straight away. Had a heart attack when I needed some proper braking first time out in a 458 after going hard through the gears! On the 991.2 best ceramics I've ever experienced.
I was thinking specifically about the Carrera GTSRT Hellcat said:
IMI A said:
New ceramics are far better but P 997 and F 458 generation cars ceramics need some heat so can lead to some scary moments if you need to jump on them straight away. Had a heart attack when I needed some proper braking first time out in a 458 after going hard through the gears! On the 991.2 best ceramics I've ever experienced.
I was thinking specifically about the Carrera GTmattb46 said:
Do PHers agree that with this kind of project car ,there seems to be a tendency for owners to invest a lot of time and money in birthing them, proclaim "I will never sell it. You will have to pry the keys out of my cold, dead hands", then 3 months after the car has been completed, put it up for sale? Chris Harris Tuthill's "green snotter" is a case in point but I'm aware of a few others. These cars usually have performance in spades, a special soundtrack, look brilliant and have taken 2-3 years to realise: every reason you would choose to keep said car for 5+ years.
Putting to one side the usual change in circumstances, if it is in fact a thing, I dont get it.
I suffer with this condition and put it down to the fact that a) I enjoy the journey more than the arrival and b) I am naturally restless. I have been seriously thinking about throwing money at a hot rod as i love 911's, but Mrs Blue is quite rightly pointing out that once built it will last a few months and then represent another fat loss. She is right, but will she prevail? There's a great thread somewhere about a stunning 964 build with long bonnet and 993 engine/box, the car was on the market within a couple of months of completion, strange but true!Putting to one side the usual change in circumstances, if it is in fact a thing, I dont get it.
Edited by mattb46 on Monday 3rd September 18:57
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