'affordable' air-cooled Porsche
Discussion
Agree with RAS. I run 2 air-cooled, 993 and Carrera 3.2 and if the running costs were in the tens of thousands I simply couldn't do it. My Carrera 3.2 has cost me the most, I guess around £15k over 8 years and that includes the initial £5k recommission service when I bought it. The car had barely been used for 20 years so I had it professionally inspected. It's turned out to be a great unmolested example. Get a PPI, buy a good one and expect to pay an average of 2k per year maintaining it. You won't regret owning one of the best drivers cars ever made!
Based on my recent experience over Xmas, it's most definitely a buyers' market at the moment. I've just bought a 1989 (last of the 3.2's with the wide wheels etc) cab for a shade over £30k, in good condition, nice colour combination, new hood, with history with sensible owners and 89k on the clock. This was also from a trader rather than private sale. I'm well chuffed and the car is performing well so far. So they are out there around the £30k mark but be careful, there are some real dogs.
If you buy a 25 year old 993 Coupe that's been properly serviced every year, but has only had routine servicing, you'll still probably be looking at doing the following at some point IF you want the car to be really nice:
My 993 had £36k spent on it over 13 years by the previous owner, and I reckon I'll spend £10k in the next few weeks on the things bulleted above.
Of course you don't need to do everything immediately, and much depends on how pristine you want the car to be. But I'd advise anyone buying one of these to check what of the above has been done. You can have a lovely looking car (especially if it is low mileage) that is waiting to have most of the above done, even though it's been routinely serviced.
A 993 Manual C2 Coupe with, say, 80k miles on will cost you at least £45k but could easily need another £15k spent on it if you want it to be spot on. Fantastic cars though!
- suspension refresh, with dampers, top mounts, front wishbones and some bushes plus subsequent geo (£2k plus)
- chassis leg inspection and either welding or rust treatment (£500 plus)
- air con fix, new condenser and probably evaporator (£2k plus)
- scuttle rust treatment, repaint and windscreen refit (£1k plus)
- brake caliper refurb (£850)
- probably some paint, depending on body condition (£ anything up to £10k plus for a bare metal shell respray)
- probably some switches and/or bulbs in the cabin that don't work
- front seats restored and/or re-upholstered (£500 and up - a full retrim by, say, Southbound is megabucks)
- new engine sound pad, windscreen seals and door seals (£200 upwards depending on where you source)
My 993 had £36k spent on it over 13 years by the previous owner, and I reckon I'll spend £10k in the next few weeks on the things bulleted above.
Of course you don't need to do everything immediately, and much depends on how pristine you want the car to be. But I'd advise anyone buying one of these to check what of the above has been done. You can have a lovely looking car (especially if it is low mileage) that is waiting to have most of the above done, even though it's been routinely serviced.
A 993 Manual C2 Coupe with, say, 80k miles on will cost you at least £45k but could easily need another £15k spent on it if you want it to be spot on. Fantastic cars though!
To echo the post above, my 993 C2 has had much of that work done - £28k spent over the last 13 years and 40,000 miles.
Although that bill does include tyres and a few non-essentials like GT3 seats, sports exhaust, spare wheels etc.
There's always the risk that the engine goes pop requiring £££££ to be spent.
It's not something to be bought on a whim, but get one that's sorted, keep investing in it and it'll be hard to let it go.
Although that bill does include tyres and a few non-essentials like GT3 seats, sports exhaust, spare wheels etc.
There's always the risk that the engine goes pop requiring £££££ to be spent.
It's not something to be bought on a whim, but get one that's sorted, keep investing in it and it'll be hard to let it go.
Brave Fart speaks the truth.
I spent something like £14k on bits and pieces on my 993 in the first couple of years and it's by no means perfect.
The one area on Brave Fart's list where you can save is get one without air-con - lighter-weight + nothing to go wrong there, it's pretty anemic even when it does work.
I spent something like £14k on bits and pieces on my 993 in the first couple of years and it's by no means perfect.
The one area on Brave Fart's list where you can save is get one without air-con - lighter-weight + nothing to go wrong there, it's pretty anemic even when it does work.
I bought a '87 3.2 G50 from the states in the summer for just shy £22k,Shipping, taxing, delivery to specialist was another £2k or so.
Since then it has had around £8k on it (mostly cosmetic and basic engine work) and its moving nicely. Still even at 30k i will need another 15-20 to get it to the level I would consider very decent. Saying that, right now it looks great (from 5m) and runs strong. Bascially as every other post says £30k wont get you a sirloin but it gets you a seat at the table, and its a fun table.
Since then it has had around £8k on it (mostly cosmetic and basic engine work) and its moving nicely. Still even at 30k i will need another 15-20 to get it to the level I would consider very decent. Saying that, right now it looks great (from 5m) and runs strong. Bascially as every other post says £30k wont get you a sirloin but it gets you a seat at the table, and its a fun table.
There are a couple of sub £30k 993's for sale at Northway Porsche (don't know the cars or the dealer, just noticed they were mentioned on another forum)
https://www.northway.co.uk/showroom
The turquoise targa was on tv, a project car on Wheeler Dealers (according to a post on another thread by Cableguy)
https://www.northway.co.uk/showroom
The turquoise targa was on tv, a project car on Wheeler Dealers (according to a post on another thread by Cableguy)
Brave Fart said:
If you buy a 25 year old 993 Coupe that's been properly serviced every year, but has only had routine servicing, you'll still probably be looking at doing the following at some point IF you want the car to be really nice:
My 993 had £36k spent on it over 13 years by the previous owner, and I reckon I'll spend £10k in the next few weeks on the things bulleted above.
Of course you don't need to do everything immediately, and much depends on how pristine you want the car to be. But I'd advise anyone buying one of these to check what of the above has been done. You can have a lovely looking car (especially if it is low mileage) that is waiting to have most of the above done, even though it's been routinely serviced.
A 993 Manual C2 Coupe with, say, 80k miles on will cost you at least £45k but could easily need another £15k spent on it if you want it to be spot on. Fantastic cars though!
I’ve steadily worked my way through that list as repairs / upgrades with a 100K mile 993 over 7 years. I did the rear chassis legs myself for example and spent £1500+ on replacement heat shields and updated engine mounts etc. However on the other hand, the car has never let me down, none of the work was safety related (less a leaking original damper spotted at MOT time which prompted the replacement of the suspension as it was due).- suspension refresh, with dampers, top mounts, front wishbones and some bushes plus subsequent geo (£2k plus)
- chassis leg inspection and either welding or rust treatment (£500 plus)
- air con fix, new condenser and probably evaporator (£2k plus)
- scuttle rust treatment, repaint and windscreen refit (£1k plus)
- brake caliper refurb (£850)
- probably some paint, depending on body condition (£ anything up to £10k plus for a bare metal shell respray)
- probably some switches and/or bulbs in the cabin that don't work
- front seats restored and/or re-upholstered (£500 and up - a full retrim by, say, Southbound is megabucks)
- new engine sound pad, windscreen seals and door seals (£200 upwards depending on where you source)
My 993 had £36k spent on it over 13 years by the previous owner, and I reckon I'll spend £10k in the next few weeks on the things bulleted above.
Of course you don't need to do everything immediately, and much depends on how pristine you want the car to be. But I'd advise anyone buying one of these to check what of the above has been done. You can have a lovely looking car (especially if it is low mileage) that is waiting to have most of the above done, even though it's been routinely serviced.
A 993 Manual C2 Coupe with, say, 80k miles on will cost you at least £45k but could easily need another £15k spent on it if you want it to be spot on. Fantastic cars though!
Price of entry needs to be considered versus the cost of owning them.
My experience of buying air cooled has been very positive. As a matter of course the upgrades that I made to the car replaced many of the items that needed refreshing anyway. Bushes, engine mounts, brakes, dampers and other suspension components etc.. what really helped was that the car was sourced in Japan and the bodywork was in very good order so it was just a case of making sure that the engine and transmission were in good service. The cost of my build was considerably lower than the figures quoted on this thread and I’ve ended up with a car that is dynamically as I want it and drives like new. As said above, body work can cost a lot of money putting right so that was a key area for me. There are some good cars out there that are Uk supplied so you don’t need look At overseas supply. Just read up on what key areas to look for body wise and have a good look at the engine. A leak down test is definitely money well spent but an inspection by an expert is an excellent option
Steve Rance said:
My experience of buying air cooled has been very positive. As a matter of course the upgrades that I made to the car replaced many of the items that needed refreshing anyway. Bushes, engine mounts, brakes, dampers and other suspension components etc.. what really helped was that the car was sourced in Japan and the bodywork was in very good order so it was just a case of making sure that the engine and transmission were in good service. The cost of my build was considerably lower than the figures quoted on this thread and I’ve ended up with a car that is dynamically as I want it and drives like new. As said above, body work can cost a lot of money putting right so that was a key area for me. There are some good cars out there that are Uk supplied so you don’t need look At overseas supply. Just read up on what key areas to look for body wise and have a good look at the engine. A leak down test is definitely money well spent but an inspection by an expert is an excellent option
I'll give you £30k for it :-) I had a 3.2 for a while that has now gone but the Service Manual is still taking space on the bookshelf. To anyone who might find it useful it’s FOC; pm me if interested.
Crikey that was quick. The manual has now gone, so sorry to disappoint anyone.
Crikey that was quick. The manual has now gone, so sorry to disappoint anyone.
Edited by lowndes on Saturday 25th January 11:33
Steve Rance said:
My experience of buying air cooled has been very positive. As a matter of course the upgrades that I made to the car replaced many of the items that needed refreshing anyway. Bushes, engine mounts, brakes, dampers and other suspension components etc.. what really helped was that the car was sourced in Japan and the bodywork was in very good order so it was just a case of making sure that the engine and transmission were in good service. The cost of my build was considerably lower than the figures quoted on this thread and I’ve ended up with a car that is dynamically as I want it and drives like new. As said above, body work can cost a lot of money putting right so that was a key area for me. There are some good cars out there that are Uk supplied so you don’t need look At overseas supply. Just read up on what key areas to look for body wise and have a good look at the engine. A leak down test is definitely money well spent but an inspection by an expert is an excellent option
My experience has been good too. The vast majority of the money I have spent has also been on upgrades. kevs 172 said:
Steve Rance said:
My experience of buying air cooled has been very positive. As a matter of course the upgrades that I made to the car replaced many of the items that needed refreshing anyway. Bushes, engine mounts, brakes, dampers and other suspension components etc.. what really helped was that the car was sourced in Japan and the bodywork was in very good order so it was just a case of making sure that the engine and transmission were in good service. The cost of my build was considerably lower than the figures quoted on this thread and I’ve ended up with a car that is dynamically as I want it and drives like new. As said above, body work can cost a lot of money putting right so that was a key area for me. There are some good cars out there that are Uk supplied so you don’t need look At overseas supply. Just read up on what key areas to look for body wise and have a good look at the engine. A leak down test is definitely money well spent but an inspection by an expert is an excellent option
My experience has been good too. The vast majority of the money I have spent has also been on upgrades. IMI A said:
+1 3.2 Carrera, 964 C2, and 993 all brill.
That's also my experience. Back in the day, I had two of each, all ordered new, and used as my only regular daily transport - London, x-country, Euro trips. Then, I moved on to the water-cooled 996s, 997s, 991s, (oh, and 981s). However, I have always kept at least one air-cooled 911 in my garage - I couldn't live without the true spirit of the '911'. And, I prefer 'factory' originality, with perhaps a few reversible tweeks and upgrades, to the 'bitza backdates', and I'd prefer to buy a low mls, original, example than a rolling project (done that and felt the pain and frustration)
Mostly, each generation of air-cooled has been better than the last and the 993s are clearly the best if you want a modern classic. However, I actually have more affection for the G50 3.2s, although I would probably go down the 964 route if I was planning to modify and enhance the drive - '964RSque'.
The early '70s (2.2/2.4) was a golden era, and I had a 73 RSL for 17 years, but the best of these cars are too much of an investment asset and much more of a 'vintage' drive, although so much lighter and tactile than the '80s/90s cars.
My advice with air-cooled is - always buy the best car you can't afford
Edited by Geneve on Saturday 25th January 12:20
lowndes said:
I had a 3.2 for a while that has now gone but the Service Manual is still taking space on the bookshelf. To anyone who might find it useful it’s FOC; pm me if interested.
Crikey that was quick. The manual has now gone, so sorry to disappoint anyone.
That was really nice of you - great to see this sort of thing on PH Crikey that was quick. The manual has now gone, so sorry to disappoint anyone.
Edited by lowndes on Saturday 25th January 11:33
Geneve said:
IMI A said:
+1 3.2 Carrera, 964 C2, and 993 all brill.
That's also my experience. Back in the day, I had two of each, all ordered new, and used as my only regular daily transport - London, x-country, Euro trips. Then, I moved on to the water-cooled 996s, 997s, 991s, (oh, and 981s). However, I have always kept at least one air-cooled 911 in my garage - I couldn't live without the true spirit of the '911'. And, I prefer 'factory' originality, with perhaps a few reversible tweeks and upgrades, to the 'bitza backdates', and I'd prefer to buy a low mls, original, example than a rolling project (done that and felt the pain and frustration)
Mostly, each generation of air-cooled has been better than the last and the 993s are clearly the best if you want a modern classic. However, I actually have more affection for the G50 3.2s, although I would probably go down the 964 route if I was planning to modify and enhance the drive - '964RSque'.
The early '70s (2.2/2.4) was a golden era, and I had a 73 RSL for 17 years, but the best of these cars are too much of an investment asset and much more of a 'vintage' drive, although so much lighter and tactile than the '80s/90s cars.
My advice with air-cooled is - always buy the best car you can't afford
Edited by Geneve on Saturday 25th January 12:20
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