Porsche 993 test drive?
Discussion
stichill99 said:
I agree with Orangecurry that a test drive will not really give you the full picture. I had a 987 boxster and was getting married and new that kids would come along so wanted a Porsche to keep as a classic/weekend toy! I bought one from a specialist never having driven one before and on the way home I was thinking 'what the hell have i done'
7 years later I think it was the best move I ever made and love the car but it took me months to get to know it! It only took a few weeks to be pointing in the wrong direction on a slow 90 degree bend though!
Oh dear! I think having the seller drive aswell is probably a good indicator. I think someone mentioned that before. I think forums like this are important to get an understanding of what ownership is like, without which I think I would be put off. I've started to look at maintenance vids for 993s now, and an oil change interesting! 7 years later I think it was the best move I ever made and love the car but it took me months to get to know it! It only took a few weeks to be pointing in the wrong direction on a slow 90 degree bend though!
C4ME said:
Wait till you get to adjusting the valve clearances on a 964 if you decide to go in that direction :- )
One reason a 964 costs more to service.
Its begs the question, for a typical year of a 993 ownership what are the maintenance jobs that people usually do, either themselves or by a shop and the associated costs? I'd like to think that I can do some of them, but most I could imagine I'd be too scared to do.One reason a 964 costs more to service.
Orangecurry said:
Nothing to be scared about on a 993 - it's a Meccano set.
Schedule is:
Every 12k
Oil change (easy - you don't need to do the filters)
Air filter (easy)
Pollen filters? (easy)
Every 24k
2xoil filters change (easy once you are used to it)
Spark plugs. (from memory 1 is difficult, because of access, 5 remaining upper plugs are quite difficult, but only because you have to move stuff out of the way and need slightly convoluted joints on the socket set, and the lower six are easy)
Capacity is 11.5? litres of oil - a proper dry-sump setup. On a change, I get 9.5 out, as there are 2 litres in the front radiator and the pipes that run to it along the driver's side.
I use Mahle filters and Mobil Super 2000 10w40 which is an SL specification - it's counter intuitive but you actually want older oil specification for older engines.
Gearbox oil every 60k? Awkward, but not difficult.
Brakes are easy, and you can get OEM Sebro discs from ECP that arrive in Porsche-numbered boxes. Get Textar pads.
Bleeding the clutch slave cylinder is awkward, and should be done when you bleed the brakes. All easy on a C2. I think the C4 and Turbo have some brake pump/booster thing, which may complicate things?
The things that cost are non-normal stuff.
Two areas of rust on the 993 to worry about - front scuttle under the windscreen corners (and rear screen) , and rear chassis legs, which has been overblown in my opinion - anyone can fix that, as it is hidden away. The scuttle can end up being expensive. If you can see a 5p sized scab appearing out from under the screen rubber, it'll be big rust underneath. Probably.
Suspension.
I should put this in a spreadsheet, along with the other stuff I've forgotten.
List of other things
but not expensive, or at least they shouldn't be.
Caliper plate lift - but just take the calipers off and get them refurbished if the pads start to jam on slightly.
There are probably three belts on your 993, and Porsche helpfully made about 50 different sizes. It's important to get the correct size on. There are mad little shims, and you need a tool to dismantle the crazy set of wheels that hang off the back of the engine it's an easy job that you might want to give to someone who's done it before. Don't even start me on the crazy wheeled-sensor that monitors one of the belts....
This is really cool! For all the 'easy jobs wouldn't it be great if there were vids that explained how to do each. When I looked I only saw oil change vids and one from wheeler dealers where they do up a knackered 993 (yes I like watching stuff like that!)Schedule is:
Every 12k
Oil change (easy - you don't need to do the filters)
Air filter (easy)
Pollen filters? (easy)
Every 24k
2xoil filters change (easy once you are used to it)
Spark plugs. (from memory 1 is difficult, because of access, 5 remaining upper plugs are quite difficult, but only because you have to move stuff out of the way and need slightly convoluted joints on the socket set, and the lower six are easy)
Capacity is 11.5? litres of oil - a proper dry-sump setup. On a change, I get 9.5 out, as there are 2 litres in the front radiator and the pipes that run to it along the driver's side.
I use Mahle filters and Mobil Super 2000 10w40 which is an SL specification - it's counter intuitive but you actually want older oil specification for older engines.
Gearbox oil every 60k? Awkward, but not difficult.
Brakes are easy, and you can get OEM Sebro discs from ECP that arrive in Porsche-numbered boxes. Get Textar pads.
Bleeding the clutch slave cylinder is awkward, and should be done when you bleed the brakes. All easy on a C2. I think the C4 and Turbo have some brake pump/booster thing, which may complicate things?
The things that cost are non-normal stuff.
Two areas of rust on the 993 to worry about - front scuttle under the windscreen corners (and rear screen) , and rear chassis legs, which has been overblown in my opinion - anyone can fix that, as it is hidden away. The scuttle can end up being expensive. If you can see a 5p sized scab appearing out from under the screen rubber, it'll be big rust underneath. Probably.
Suspension.
I should put this in a spreadsheet, along with the other stuff I've forgotten.
List of other things
but not expensive, or at least they shouldn't be.Caliper plate lift - but just take the calipers off and get them refurbished if the pads start to jam on slightly.
There are probably three belts on your 993, and Porsche helpfully made about 50 different sizes. It's important to get the correct size on. There are mad little shims, and you need a tool to dismantle the crazy set of wheels that hang off the back of the engine
it's an easy job that you might want to give to someone who's done it before. Don't even start me on the crazy wheeled-sensor that monitors one of the belts....Edited by Orangecurry on Friday 30th October 18:00
OrangeCurry - fancy setting up a YouTube channel? Might make some money
gives the home mechanic some confidence that its being done correctly. I've never changed pads or even engine oil before 
Nurburgsingh said:
I’ve tried not to go stir crazy during lockdown by keeping up with the odd dawn raid and a socially distanced coffee with friends.
I’ve got to choose between these..
The RS has been out once, the GTS twice and the 993 gets taken every other time.
Yes the other 2 are, on paper, better in every way that matters to 90% of the people.
But in the same way that an MX5 or low powered 7 get people excited the 993 is enjoyable at every level on every road, it’s small so single track roads aren’t the scary place the other two make them. It’s suspension is compliant, so an uneven road isn’t the bone jarring experience the RS is. It’s just being able to explore more of the cars envelope more of the time.
I had to look back and check - I’ve owned my 993C2 for 9 years. I nearly sold it after 3 months because I couldn’t “get on with it”. I spoke to some well regarded 911 drivers and got some instruction and I haven’t looked back. I’m just annoyed I didn’t buy one sooner.
Good selection of cars! And love the dog too I’ve got to choose between these..
The RS has been out once, the GTS twice and the 993 gets taken every other time.
Yes the other 2 are, on paper, better in every way that matters to 90% of the people.
But in the same way that an MX5 or low powered 7 get people excited the 993 is enjoyable at every level on every road, it’s small so single track roads aren’t the scary place the other two make them. It’s suspension is compliant, so an uneven road isn’t the bone jarring experience the RS is. It’s just being able to explore more of the cars envelope more of the time.
I had to look back and check - I’ve owned my 993C2 for 9 years. I nearly sold it after 3 months because I couldn’t “get on with it”. I spoke to some well regarded 911 drivers and got some instruction and I haven’t looked back. I’m just annoyed I didn’t buy one sooner.
would be interested to know what instruction you had that made the difference? ClaphamGT3 said:
This is the sort of bloke down the pub b
ks that I really hate about PH.
OP, don't listen to this sort of uninformed drivel. They are a small, light car with a minimum of 270bhp. The slowest manual version will, in basic stats do 0-60 in 5.5 seconds and 168mph. They are, by any standards still a very quick car.
I loved mine and wish I'd never sold it.
I'm well beyond that to be honest. If I wanted a car that was supper quick, I'd buy a newer sports car. I'm looking for more than that really. I have a audi q5 with 250 hourses, and that's quick enough for me ks that I really hate about PH.OP, don't listen to this sort of uninformed drivel. They are a small, light car with a minimum of 270bhp. The slowest manual version will, in basic stats do 0-60 in 5.5 seconds and 168mph. They are, by any standards still a very quick car.
I loved mine and wish I'd never sold it.
Thanks for the insite, thats a great response. I have a feeling that I won't be able to distinguish a good one from a bad one. I will most likely rely on a PPI to get what I need and hope for the best.
If so many people rave about the oneness with the car, they can't be wrong. I've been driving myself a little mad watching content on the Internet, and now with another lockdown its more difficult to get out and test drive. If anyone is passing High Barnet and wants to stop for a socially distanced coffee so I can gawk at their 993, please let me know!
If so many people rave about the oneness with the car, they can't be wrong. I've been driving myself a little mad watching content on the Internet, and now with another lockdown its more difficult to get out and test drive. If anyone is passing High Barnet and wants to stop for a socially distanced coffee so I can gawk at their 993, please let me know!
Wozy68 said:
The problem with the internet is that you find a type of car you like, read up on it, watch the videos and then come across the 'real cost of ownership' kind of vid. Then it all goes pear shaped. Angst and more angst that its goiing to cost a zillion £s because everything is going to go wrong on it because someone on You Tube says so..... So now you need a PPI
Ive suffered from it when looking at certain cars and googling their faults.
In the real world a 993 is old school, ie a lot of the basics can be done by ANY competent mecanic. My 993 has full OPC history, it purely goes to an OPC each year for its service because it was full OPC before I bought it. However 99% of the work required is partially done by myself or mainly by a great mecanic who basically works from a shed..... Theres no special knowledge required 90% plus of the time. So you can view a car look for what you would on ANY normal old car and make an informed .decision
I well remember buying my first 911 (964) and though I bought it from a respected Indie, on the way home I was terrified something was going to break, I was constantly listening for funny noises and basically I was bricking it that something major was going to happen and I'd not have the funds to repair it..... In the end I kept her for two years and the most I spent was on a major service at Northway which cost £800.00 back then..
I have no connection to it but there's is a 993 C2 for sale on PH at the moment. It states it has oil leaks, it states that it will need paint in the coming years and its less than £34K with a ton of history... and its from a Porshe Indie who refreshingly is giving an honest description. Its at 170K miles .... Those in the know know that the mileage is of no issue (if its been maintained and has the docs to prove it) From what I've learnt after owning my 993 for nine years is that 99% of 993s leak 'some' oil..... they are all at least 22 years old now and of the 16 years I've driven aircooled 911s they all leak within reason. As long as its not using more than a litre of oil every 1000 miles its still within Porsche factory specs for consumption.
That's a manual C2 Porsche 911 for the price of a 1973 MGB GTV8 or a Ford Escort RS2000 MK2 ...or being more modern a nearly new Audi TT that will depreciate more than an old 993 will cost to run by a country mile and I know which I'd prefer. If I was in the market now I'd be down there like a shot giving it the once over, checking its history making sure the engine doesnt smoke (when warm) and then spend the winter months lavising T-Cut and wax to the exterior and making her look half decent.
Then I'd race around in it for the next 10 summer years whilst she consumed oil on a regular basis .... and then sell her someone justy like me 10 years later with little or no depreciation.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10771193?c...
Pop down and have a look and a test drive. Kill two birds with one stone.
Best of look with your search. They are fabulous cars.
Thanks for the response. Its a fair comment about running a mile when you see adverts like that. I did actually see that and skipped straight past it worried about the leaking oil! The trouble with overthinking it, and its a lot of money to spend on a weekend toy making it a difficult choice to make. Ive suffered from it when looking at certain cars and googling their faults.
In the real world a 993 is old school, ie a lot of the basics can be done by ANY competent mecanic. My 993 has full OPC history, it purely goes to an OPC each year for its service because it was full OPC before I bought it. However 99% of the work required is partially done by myself or mainly by a great mecanic who basically works from a shed..... Theres no special knowledge required 90% plus of the time. So you can view a car look for what you would on ANY normal old car and make an informed .decision
I well remember buying my first 911 (964) and though I bought it from a respected Indie, on the way home I was terrified something was going to break, I was constantly listening for funny noises and basically I was bricking it that something major was going to happen and I'd not have the funds to repair it..... In the end I kept her for two years and the most I spent was on a major service at Northway which cost £800.00 back then..
I have no connection to it but there's is a 993 C2 for sale on PH at the moment. It states it has oil leaks, it states that it will need paint in the coming years and its less than £34K with a ton of history... and its from a Porshe Indie who refreshingly is giving an honest description. Its at 170K miles .... Those in the know know that the mileage is of no issue (if its been maintained and has the docs to prove it) From what I've learnt after owning my 993 for nine years is that 99% of 993s leak 'some' oil..... they are all at least 22 years old now and of the 16 years I've driven aircooled 911s they all leak within reason. As long as its not using more than a litre of oil every 1000 miles its still within Porsche factory specs for consumption.
That's a manual C2 Porsche 911 for the price of a 1973 MGB GTV8 or a Ford Escort RS2000 MK2 ...or being more modern a nearly new Audi TT that will depreciate more than an old 993 will cost to run by a country mile and I know which I'd prefer. If I was in the market now I'd be down there like a shot giving it the once over, checking its history making sure the engine doesnt smoke (when warm) and then spend the winter months lavising T-Cut and wax to the exterior and making her look half decent.
Then I'd race around in it for the next 10 summer years whilst she consumed oil on a regular basis .... and then sell her someone justy like me 10 years later with little or no depreciation.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10771193?c...
Pop down and have a look and a test drive. Kill two birds with one stone.
Best of look with your search. They are fabulous cars.
I remember looking for my first ever car with £900 in my pocket doing all the checks myself- Best ever car I owned
I was moaning about the car to the wife and she said I should buy a 997 as an interim car and then 'upgrade' to a 993. Bthoughtbthat was very understanding, I couldn't bring myself to do it
I did like the look of this one though
https://www.rpmspecialistcars.co.uk/cars/porsche-9...
Wozy68 said:
Don’t run a mile .... go and check it out and have a good look around it. I’ve seen some shockers at £50K, yet the description of them was nothing like what they were actually like in the flesh.
Ref the RPM car. Now that’s a very very interesting car. It will be good I’d bet as I’ve heard good things about those guys and I was only looking at it online last night.
But what makes it sooooo interesting to me is the registration date. My 993 is supposedly one of the first batch of twelve RHD 993s brought into the country. These 12 were registered on the 6th and 7th of December 1993.... Mine was on the 7th.
Story goes, these all went to the oldest Porsche dealers in the country as their demo cars. (Mine, Kendal in Cumbria who have been an OPC since 1957).
Yet the 993 in the add at RPM was registered in the October of 1993, up to two months before the 993 was supposed to be available in RHD in the U.K.
So it’s not only a very early U.K. registered 993, it’s possibly the oldest registered (and still on the road) RHD 993 on the planet.
Wow, love the detail in this response. I actually called RPM about this car and talked to a chap called Nick. Theres a lot of interest in it and people are waiting for lockdown to lift before test driving. Ref the RPM car. Now that’s a very very interesting car. It will be good I’d bet as I’ve heard good things about those guys and I was only looking at it online last night.
But what makes it sooooo interesting to me is the registration date. My 993 is supposedly one of the first batch of twelve RHD 993s brought into the country. These 12 were registered on the 6th and 7th of December 1993.... Mine was on the 7th.
Story goes, these all went to the oldest Porsche dealers in the country as their demo cars. (Mine, Kendal in Cumbria who have been an OPC since 1957).
Yet the 993 in the add at RPM was registered in the October of 1993, up to two months before the 993 was supposed to be available in RHD in the U.K.
So it’s not only a very early U.K. registered 993, it’s possibly the oldest registered (and still on the road) RHD 993 on the planet.
Edited by Wozy68 on Monday 23 November 21:08
I did ask what their policy was RE reserving and its £500 non-refundable. Seeing as I've never driven a 993 I was immediate out of that
oddman said:
I'm in Yorkshire and aware of the reputation of RPM locally (ie very good).
Will be looking for retirement toy in 3 months. I never thought 993s would be within reach again for me (though this is double what I sold my last one for
) If I had my lump sum in bank now, I'd consider non return deposit to keep vultures from circling.
If it's as good as it looks it won't hang around.
I'm never any good in pressure sales situations like this and for the fact the wife would probably leave me Will be looking for retirement toy in 3 months. I never thought 993s would be within reach again for me (though this is double what I sold my last one for
) If I had my lump sum in bank now, I'd consider non return deposit to keep vultures from circling.If it's as good as it looks it won't hang around.
Edited by oddman on Saturday 28th November 08:26
Edited by oddman on Saturday 28th November 08:27
I'll wait till I've actually driven one. Covid I think has created spikes of interest in cars like this which make them difficult to buy unless you take a punt.
I think you'd need to trust the sales shop implicitly because you won't get a chance to ppi it before buying. Also RPM have a classic car warranty which means not everything is covered...too many red flags for me
Orangecurry said:
The RPM car looks good from 200 miles away, but if it had a respray in 2016 so it should.
RPM are missing a trick by not listing all of the work done over the past 14 years?
My first question would be about suspension, and my last question would be 'does the aircon work?'.
The bodyshop have done an excellent job in fitting the front bumper/wing rubber seal, as that is very difficult to line up.
I asked about an engine rebuild and suspension, it hadn't had a rebuild (which I know may not be an issue) and he didn't know about the suspension. RPM are missing a trick by not listing all of the work done over the past 14 years?
My first question would be about suspension, and my last question would be 'does the aircon work?'.
The bodyshop have done an excellent job in fitting the front bumper/wing rubber seal, as that is very difficult to line up.
I think I'll spend the next couple of months test driving. Seeing one in the flesh might help also
I did look again to see if I could hire one, but nothing yet. Anyone on here want to pimp out their beloved for a couple hundred
indescent proposal...hahahWozy68 said:
I think (and please don’t take this in anyway the wrong way) you should go for a newer 911 with a damn good full on warranty.
Old 911s cost money to run and you can’t really expect an OPC equivalent warranty on an old Porsche.
There’s loving them and then there’s worrying yourself silly it’s about to break. Old 911s whatever the mileage or price you pay, if you drive it, is going to cost money, maybe not in the first year but will after that.
What makes it worse for you is that the value of the cars went up massively over the last 8-10 years but now have for the moment at least levelled off if not eased. So the argument of cost of an appreciating asset vs costs to run per mile has now gone.
My 993 is by far the cheapest car per mile I’ve owned though, in nine years it’s cost me well over £25K to keep ship shape but the value went up by at least £20K. .... Over 50K miles that equates to minimal cost per mile and warranted the expense (much of which wasn’t required) and I’ve also loved every mile of ownership.
I’ll still spend the money to keep her spot on .... buts it’s a heck of a load of money if you can’t use the argument it’s an appreciating asset or that you don’t put the mileage on to warrant it.
You know I think you might be right. I do like the idea of owning an old car, but it may not be a viable option for me. Its a good point about the appreciation you've had on your car, I can't imagine buying a car for 40k and then spending 20k on it for it to be worth 40k after 10 years - it doesn't make financial sense. Old 911s cost money to run and you can’t really expect an OPC equivalent warranty on an old Porsche.
There’s loving them and then there’s worrying yourself silly it’s about to break. Old 911s whatever the mileage or price you pay, if you drive it, is going to cost money, maybe not in the first year but will after that.
What makes it worse for you is that the value of the cars went up massively over the last 8-10 years but now have for the moment at least levelled off if not eased. So the argument of cost of an appreciating asset vs costs to run per mile has now gone.
My 993 is by far the cheapest car per mile I’ve owned though, in nine years it’s cost me well over £25K to keep ship shape but the value went up by at least £20K. .... Over 50K miles that equates to minimal cost per mile and warranted the expense (much of which wasn’t required) and I’ve also loved every mile of ownership.
I’ll still spend the money to keep her spot on .... buts it’s a heck of a load of money if you can’t use the argument it’s an appreciating asset or that you don’t put the mileage on to warrant it.
I'm going down a route of seeing what else I could get for half the price of a 993, maybe a 997 or an Aston Martin db9. I know its not the same, but still a lot of fun to scratch that itch
stichill99 said:
If you worry about possible bills for a 993 for christ's sake don't buy a DB9!
Haha, I thought they were pretty bullet proof? In any respect hardly any room in the back for the kids...whats that about. If the conclusion for me is a 997 I think I would be happy with that...then I started to look up rms, ims and bore scoring theres an outfit near me called friends Green porsche. Anyone dealt with them?stichill99 said:
If you worry about possible bills for a 993 for christ's sake don't buy a DB9!
This comment on an another thread made me laugh...'I went from a 911 C4S to a DB9 and never regretted it, now on my second DB9. The Porsche was not as reliable as I thought it was going to be, what really surprised me was the 911 squeaked and rattled a lot. Don’t get me wrong the 911 was a great car to drive, but people seemed to hate you (unlike in the DB9).'
ketan.jina said:
This comment on an another thread made me laugh...
'I went from a 911 C4S to a DB9 and never regretted it, now on my second DB9. The Porsche was not as reliable as I thought it was going to be, what really surprised me was the 911 squeaked and rattled a lot. Don’t get me wrong the 911 was a great car to drive, but people seemed to hate you (unlike in the DB9).'
I'd probably get crucified, but its just sooo pretty! 'I went from a 911 C4S to a DB9 and never regretted it, now on my second DB9. The Porsche was not as reliable as I thought it was going to be, what really surprised me was the 911 squeaked and rattled a lot. Don’t get me wrong the 911 was a great car to drive, but people seemed to hate you (unlike in the DB9).'
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2020111059...
Orangecurry said:
I had no idea they had depreciated so much.
..and honestly, not sour grapes, they look rather tubby at the rear - too much metal over the rear wheels.... you really like that shape?
Yeah, me neither....very surprised at the price. Its like all cars, I tend to like 3/4 of it. The AM I like the front 3/4. The 993 I like the back 3/4 ..and honestly, not sour grapes, they look rather tubby at the rear - too much metal over the rear wheels.... you really like that shape?
the 997 and 964 are probably the nicest all round for me. Maybe in black it works better?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2020112765...
kingroon said:
Not necessarily true, I took my 997.2 into an OPC back in 2016 with Bore Scoring to 2 Cylinders, at ~70K Miles.. There were 2 other 997.2 on the Ramps for the same reason..
That's disappointing! I presume you know you have this because of the engine noise - 'slapping' sound. Is the best bet to get a gen 1 that has done at least 80k miles? I presume if you have a bore scope done it should identify issues in an engine with that kind of milage. MrVert said:
If you're after a DB9, it would be worth speaking to Rob @ McGurk.
Very knowledgable and will advise on what to look out for. If you buy a car that needs some work, brakes, suspension etc you could be looking at an instant bill of £5k plus easily.
I'm looking out for a nice V12 Vantage, or possibly a DB9 Sports Pack. Spoke with Rob about possible problems with the cars and it was a bit of an eye opener...although it didn't put me off.
Wow, its big money if there are problems. Had a quick scan through issues, and it really does scare...the guidance is don't buy anything thats sub 30k that doesn't have full aston service history. I suppose if you look at any car over 15 years old you're always going to find issues. Have you seen this chap at Bamford Rose Very knowledgable and will advise on what to look out for. If you buy a car that needs some work, brakes, suspension etc you could be looking at an instant bill of £5k plus easily.
I'm looking out for a nice V12 Vantage, or possibly a DB9 Sports Pack. Spoke with Rob about possible problems with the cars and it was a bit of an eye opener...although it didn't put me off.
https://youtu.be/Jitffy4KlCo
Pretty good reviews, but scary!
I have a newish car, and although its a lovely car it lacks any sort of personality that my first car, a 1.2 yellow Vauxhall nova merit had bags of
I think something in the region of 15yrs old would do it. I still am veering towards a db9. In person they are a lot nicer than the pics can show. Theres a chap that runs through the basics of maintenance which I like a lot...https://aston1936.com
I think something in the region of 15yrs old would do it. I still am veering towards a db9. In person they are a lot nicer than the pics can show. Theres a chap that runs through the basics of maintenance which I like a lot...https://aston1936.com
Gassing Station | Porsche Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff