Discussion
sone said:
Have either bought a new or sold a Spider, errr no I don't think so!
I can't take a lot of stock in the " I was offered a car at two bob or I know a bloke who got tweleve quid when he traded in his two week old spider with 150 miles on the clock.
I remember being advised on here on what I should be looking for when buying a GT3 sometime ago and what deal I could expect to get. It turned out my advisors experience of purchasing super cars was his latest purchase a VW Polo. That's what I mean by dreamers. By the way nothing wrong with VW's.
My World is one of realism. Watch you don't fall off your's.
S, I have had 3 x 12cs, including an SP. I have personally been involved in the purchase and sale of another 5 cars....On the 458, I have owned 1 car my self, and have placed 3 cars for friends. The last one being a very high spec SP, that had under 1000k miles and was just under 12 months old. The best offer was 3k off 100k loss.....I can't take a lot of stock in the " I was offered a car at two bob or I know a bloke who got tweleve quid when he traded in his two week old spider with 150 miles on the clock.
I remember being advised on here on what I should be looking for when buying a GT3 sometime ago and what deal I could expect to get. It turned out my advisors experience of purchasing super cars was his latest purchase a VW Polo. That's what I mean by dreamers. By the way nothing wrong with VW's.
My World is one of realism. Watch you don't fall off your's.
I have to say that I feel you are winding up now. The above unfortunately is the norm, this is why people are turning to classics.
Why do you doubt this?
Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 28th March 09:46
All this talk '458 Margins' has centred around Spiders - what's the consensus then regarding Coupes?
In the view of the 'experts' are these better or worse?
I was offered a nearly new 458 Spider last year and it was hardly a 'bargain'!
As I've said before, cheap cars are cheap for a reason - right spec, desirable cars always hold their price and don't hang around for long. If the official Ferrari dealers are taking the mick at trade in, then the independents would be awash with cut price bargains snapped up from disgruntled owners.
Ferrari and the dealers should be, and are 'protecting' the brand by doing what they are doing - i.e. cutting back on production to avoid stock piling and not slashing 2nd hand values.
McLaren got this wrong - I was offered a nearly new 12C by my local McL dealer far cheaper than a 2 year old 458.
Graham
In the view of the 'experts' are these better or worse?
I was offered a nearly new 458 Spider last year and it was hardly a 'bargain'!
As I've said before, cheap cars are cheap for a reason - right spec, desirable cars always hold their price and don't hang around for long. If the official Ferrari dealers are taking the mick at trade in, then the independents would be awash with cut price bargains snapped up from disgruntled owners.
Ferrari and the dealers should be, and are 'protecting' the brand by doing what they are doing - i.e. cutting back on production to avoid stock piling and not slashing 2nd hand values.
McLaren got this wrong - I was offered a nearly new 12C by my local McL dealer far cheaper than a 2 year old 458.
Graham
APOLO1 said:
sone said:
Have either bought a new or sold a Spider, errr no I don't think so!
I can't take a lot of stock in the " I was offered a car at two bob or I know a bloke who got tweleve quid when he traded in his two week old spider with 150 miles on the clock.
I remember being advised on here on what I should be looking for when buying a GT3 sometime ago and what deal I could expect to get. It turned out my advisors experience of purchasing super cars was his latest purchase a VW Polo. That's what I mean by dreamers. By the way nothing wrong with VW's.
My World is one of realism. Watch you don't fall off your's.
S, I have had 3 x 12cs, including an SP. I have personally been involved in the purchase and sale of another 5 cars....On the 458, I have owned 1 car my self, and have placed 3 cars for friends. The last one being a very high spec SP, that had under 1000k miles and was just under 12 months old. The best offer was 3k off 100k loss.....I can't take a lot of stock in the " I was offered a car at two bob or I know a bloke who got tweleve quid when he traded in his two week old spider with 150 miles on the clock.
I remember being advised on here on what I should be looking for when buying a GT3 sometime ago and what deal I could expect to get. It turned out my advisors experience of purchasing super cars was his latest purchase a VW Polo. That's what I mean by dreamers. By the way nothing wrong with VW's.
My World is one of realism. Watch you don't fall off your's.
I have to say that I feel you are winding up now. The above unfortunately is the norm, this is why people are turning to classics.
Why do you doubt this?
Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 28th March 09:46
sone said:
APOLO1 said:
sone said:
Have either bought a new or sold a Spider, errr no I don't think so!
I can't take a lot of stock in the " I was offered a car at two bob or I know a bloke who got tweleve quid when he traded in his two week old spider with 150 miles on the clock.
I remember being advised on here on what I should be looking for when buying a GT3 sometime ago and what deal I could expect to get. It turned out my advisors experience of purchasing super cars was his latest purchase a VW Polo. That's what I mean by dreamers. By the way nothing wrong with VW's.
My World is one of realism. Watch you don't fall off your's.
S, I have had 3 x 12cs, including an SP. I have personally been involved in the purchase and sale of another 5 cars....On the 458, I have owned 1 car my self, and have placed 3 cars for friends. The last one being a very high spec SP, that had under 1000k miles and was just under 12 months old. The best offer was 3k off 100k loss.....I can't take a lot of stock in the " I was offered a car at two bob or I know a bloke who got tweleve quid when he traded in his two week old spider with 150 miles on the clock.
I remember being advised on here on what I should be looking for when buying a GT3 sometime ago and what deal I could expect to get. It turned out my advisors experience of purchasing super cars was his latest purchase a VW Polo. That's what I mean by dreamers. By the way nothing wrong with VW's.
My World is one of realism. Watch you don't fall off your's.
I have to say that I feel you are winding up now. The above unfortunately is the norm, this is why people are turning to classics.
Why do you doubt this?
Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 28th March 09:46
sone said:
Robbo66 said:
sone said:
Prepare to be bombarded with bulls
t!
My only advice is only listen to others on here that have bought or about to buy not the dreamers!
You mean the likes of Shmee or Apolo then ?t!My only advice is only listen to others on here that have bought or about to buy not the dreamers!
Hail, the world is flat.
I can't take a lot of stock in the " I was offered a car at two bob or I know a bloke who got tweleve quid when he traded in his two week old spider with 150 miles on the clock.
I remember being advised on here on what I should be looking for when buying a GT3 sometime ago and what deal I could expect to get. It turned out my advisors experience of purchasing super cars was his latest purchase a VW Polo. That's what I mean by dreamers. By the way nothing wrong with VW's.
My World is one of realism. Watch you don't fall off your's.
You're a little aggressive & defensive and you're an owner. The two seem to go hand in hand. Facts are indeed facts, and you seem to be ignoring them when they are presented. My original question was why this state of affairs exists, not 'does it'...it's plain that those who have bought and sold from new have experienced the near £100k loss on certain occasions as have been clearly stated.
I'd rather not argue with you, so suggest we beg to differ and leave it there.
Robbo66 said:
sone said:
Robbo66 said:
sone said:
Prepare to be bombarded with bullst!
My only advice is only listen to others on here that have bought or about to buy not the dreamers!
You mean the likes of Shmee or Apolo then ?t!My only advice is only listen to others on here that have bought or about to buy not the dreamers!
Hail, the world is flat.
I can't take a lot of stock in the " I was offered a car at two bob or I know a bloke who got tweleve quid when he traded in his two week old spider with 150 miles on the clock.
I remember being advised on here on what I should be looking for when buying a GT3 sometime ago and what deal I could expect to get. It turned out my advisors experience of purchasing super cars was his latest purchase a VW Polo. That's what I mean by dreamers. By the way nothing wrong with VW's.
My World is one of realism. Watch you don't fall off your's.
You're a little aggressive & defensive and you're an owner. The two seem to go hand in hand. Facts are indeed facts, and you seem to be ignoring them when they are presented. My original question was why this state of affairs exists, not 'does it'...it's plain that those who have bought and sold from new have experienced the near £100k loss on certain occasions as have been clearly stated.
I'd rather not argue with you, so suggest we beg to differ and leave it there.
If and when I do move mine on I will be wearing a flack jacket at the dealers without doubt.
I was thinking maybe a px against an Aventador, two things stop me, firstly there seems to be a lot for sale compared to the number produced. Secondly my Mrs said don't worry about losing money on the 458, the divorce will be a lot more expensive(-:
I digress!
This threads a load of rubbish really. Its obvious that a dealer is going to want 20% I would have thought, anyone buying a car for 150k plus and taking the gamble would surely want that would they not? So that's 40k/50k on a newish car, all these people advertising "WE want your Ferrari" are dealers hoping to make a profit buy buying cheaply from someone who unfortunately needs the money. I will wager that some dealers have probably made 90k on some deals that were just right at the time, by the remarks in this thread it seems that some people do not mind losing 100k on a car. So I reckon the OP might be right. Staggering!
APOLO1 said:
Tim do you feel that the 650s will follow the 12c, price wise? in my view it will track it to the penny on the day. I well recall 12csps selling for 40k off list with only a few hundred miles on them. On any reading I just can not see how the 650 will not follow this.
I agree that like others they should increase this time of year. But the market is so tiny for this type of car. 150 was vey cheap for a 458SP, Only a few 12c at this price, once they are gone this will have looked cheap imv...
IMHO
I hope not, they need to reduce production to prevent it from happening and build to order rather than stocking them up as before. I bought the 12C in part because the deal available on it was so outstanding I just couldn't resist, but I've felt very sorry for the former owner who has lost an awful lot, very quickly, on what was a £217k list car.I agree that like others they should increase this time of year. But the market is so tiny for this type of car. 150 was vey cheap for a 458SP, Only a few 12c at this price, once they are gone this will have looked cheap imv...
IMHO
To Mr sone and Robbo66, on the car presented to me front I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true.
Robbo66 said:
No, I am considering one and that was the point of the thread. Why would I be posting on this subject if I had done ?.
You're a little aggressive & defensive and you're an owner. The two seem to go hand in hand. Facts are indeed facts, and you seem to be ignoring them when they are presented. My original question was why this state of affairs exists, not 'does it'...it's plain that those who have bought and sold from new have experienced the near £100k loss on certain occasions as have been clearly stated.
I'd rather not argue with you, so suggest we beg to differ and leave it there.
Hi Robbo , funny I spent the day thinking about 458 vs keeping GT3 and as such this thread has been interesting - I'm sure it comes down to dealers paying as low as possible for a car and selling for as much as possible and as such , the spread will vary immensely - if anyone is lazy enough to sell a £180,000 ish asset to one dealer without touting about to the rest - then more fool them as they will get bitten more than most. But in the main the market must "work" or as someone said earlier the independents would undercut the main dealers and all cars would end up there or sold privately - so if anyone wants out of a 458 and doesn't want to loose their shirt to a dealer then PM me and maybe we can find a mutually beneficial deal You're a little aggressive & defensive and you're an owner. The two seem to go hand in hand. Facts are indeed facts, and you seem to be ignoring them when they are presented. My original question was why this state of affairs exists, not 'does it'...it's plain that those who have bought and sold from new have experienced the near £100k loss on certain occasions as have been clearly stated.
I'd rather not argue with you, so suggest we beg to differ and leave it there.
Edited by RSVP911 on Sunday 6th April 19:05
I think the big issue here is indeed that a private to private sale is very rare at this price point.. I don't know if it's a case of "good feeling" being sought by somebody buying a Ferrari and hence looking at dealers only... or a question of trust/peace of mind.. whereby with these expensive (and somehow fragile) cars you do have a recourse to an official dealer.. maybe finance plays a role (although Oracle will finance you if you get it inspected... so not really an excuse).
Hence spreads can be chunky indeed if a dealer needs to buy it off you.. run balance-sheet costs to keep it on the forecourt until sold.. and then add prep costs, warranty & the likes. Still we are indeed talking of very large spreads in particular for Ferrari on nearly new models.
When I sold my 2yr old 991 S to a Porker dealer I think they put it back for sale adding 1yr warranty and a wash for 5-6k more. Not exorbitant numbers. At double the price point then I would expect maybe more... linear approach would say 10-15k already (although largely unjustified if you ask me..).
Solution is to stop complaining and for sellers to try and sell privately and for buyers to buy some balls. Book an inspection at Macari's and buy car privately.
Hence spreads can be chunky indeed if a dealer needs to buy it off you.. run balance-sheet costs to keep it on the forecourt until sold.. and then add prep costs, warranty & the likes. Still we are indeed talking of very large spreads in particular for Ferrari on nearly new models.
When I sold my 2yr old 991 S to a Porker dealer I think they put it back for sale adding 1yr warranty and a wash for 5-6k more. Not exorbitant numbers. At double the price point then I would expect maybe more... linear approach would say 10-15k already (although largely unjustified if you ask me..).
Solution is to stop complaining and for sellers to try and sell privately and for buyers to buy some balls. Book an inspection at Macari's and buy car privately.
RSVP911 said:
Hi Robbo , funny I spent the day thinking about 458 vs keeping GT3 and as such this thread has been interesting - I'm sure it comes down to dealers paying as low as possible for a car and selling for as much as possible and as such , the spread will vary immensely - if anyone is lazy enough to sell a £180,000 ish asset to one dealer without touting about to the rest - then more fool them as they will get bitten more than most. But in the main the market must "work" or as someone said earlier the independents would undercut the main dealers and all cars would end up there or sold privately - so if anyone wants out of a 458 and doesn't want to loose their shirt to a dealer then PM me and maybe we can find a mutually beneficial deal
Hi RS,Edited by RSVP911 on Sunday 6th April 19:05
All I can do is gauge what others have informed me, and a couple have posted on this thread who have owned and sold. I considered one, but the losses are stratospheric. It also a concern that many have such low mileage and so many owners. Perhaps a case of the dream not living up to the reality.
As for the Main Dealer v Independent, many will be trading up or have a running relationship with their MD and would never looking at an Independent. I for one, would not purchase via an independent for a car of this value. I would ironically, consider buying privately as it's plain the spread is huge.
I'm not sure why the Independent would want to crash the market by selling at a lower rate. Far better for them to hold out and sell a few % below the local MD surely. I'm also not sure the offers would be any better from the Independent either. They may well not have the financial clout to have a depreciating asset of this value sitting on their forecourt.
Maybe there are those so fickle, so wealthy that can take the hit and would never consider hawking it about.
For me personally, unless a private sale popped up, a loss of this magnitude rules me out of the Spider market.
Robbo66 said:
RSVP911 said:
Hi Robbo , funny I spent the day thinking about 458 vs keeping GT3 and as such this thread has been interesting - I'm sure it comes down to dealers paying as low as possible for a car and selling for as much as possible and as such , the spread will vary immensely - if anyone is lazy enough to sell a £180,000 ish asset to one dealer without touting about to the rest - then more fool them as they will get bitten more than most. But in the main the market must "work" or as someone said earlier the independents would undercut the main dealers and all cars would end up there or sold privately - so if anyone wants out of a 458 and doesn't want to loose their shirt to a dealer then PM me and maybe we can find a mutually beneficial deal
Hi RS,Edited by RSVP911 on Sunday 6th April 19:05
All I can do is gauge what others have informed me, and a couple have posted on this thread who have owned and sold. I considered one, but the losses are stratospheric. It also a concern that many have such low mileage and so many owners. Perhaps a case of the dream not living up to the reality.
As for the Main Dealer v Independent, many will be trading up or have a running relationship with their MD and would never looking at an Independent. I for one, would not purchase via an independent for a car of this value. I would ironically, consider buying privately as it's plain the spread is huge.
I'm not sure why the Independent would want to crash the market by selling at a lower rate. Far better for them to hold out and sell a few % below the local MD surely. I'm also not sure the offers would be any better from the Independent either. They may well not have the financial clout to have a depreciating asset of this value sitting on their forecourt.
Maybe there are those so fickle, so wealthy that can take the hit and would never consider hawking it about.
For me personally, unless a private sale popped up, a loss of this magnitude rules me out of the Spider market.
I think a good few spider buyers bought with the view they'd make a few quid by buying the first cars which sort of didn't happen. However if you can buy a spider at the rumoured 150-160k and you intend to keep it for say 3-5 years then I can see the depreciation levelling out at what 7-10 per year. The 458 spider will always be a better car than the 430 spider and will be more expensive I would think what ever happens. In fact I believe the 430 spider market is only bolstered by the substantial gap between itself and the 458 spider values.
Just my humble!
sone said:
However if you can buy a spider at the rumoured 150-160k and you intend to keep it for say 3-5 years then I can see the depreciation levelling out at what 7-10 per year.
The trouble with that Sone, is that they are hardly ever kept that long for fear of whacking on the mileage and the 'next new thing around the corner'. Then the RRP is STILL not reflective of what the owner was bid in any way shape or form.ted 191 said:
Let's have some facts then........just sold my 12 coupe after 11 months and 4k miles, bought from a main dealer at retail and sold back to same dealer as trade, loss of £12.5k.
Ted, here's one:'S, I have had 3 x 12cs, including an SP. I have personally been involved in the purchase and sale of another 5 cars....On the 458, I have owned 1 car my self, and have placed 3 cars for friends. The last one being a very high spec SP, that had under 1000k miles and was just under 12 months old. The best offer was 3k off 100k loss.....'
Talking Spiders really, not Coupe's.
Assume you must have bought exceptionally, and obviously not new. Not sure either whether that was a trade in against a new car from same Dealer ?.
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