KHAN CARS @ BRADFORD
Discussion
Kyodo said:
I have absolutely no problem with speed as long as it comes with respect and is used when appropriate but if you feel overtaking is a challenge and relish the greater risk, you should probably have your license taken away. Head-on collisions tend to leave innocent people dead. I'm no killjoy. We have a Ferrari and a Porsche and it's great to stretch their legs a bit so I hope what you meant to say was lost in the print a little.
I doubt many others would have read it like that, but whatever. I guess adding the word safely might not have gone amiss.Back on topic, almost all of my cars are LHD which is down to the fact I imported them from Japan where they like the cars to be as they were originally produced. I like that way of thinking, after all no Ferrari in the last 50 years was designed as a RHD car. Same for Porsche as someone mentioned above.
Cheers,
Bryn.
bryn_p said:
Kyodo said:
I have absolutely no problem with speed as long as it comes with respect and is used when appropriate but if you feel overtaking is a challenge and relish the greater risk, you should probably have your license taken away. Head-on collisions tend to leave innocent people dead. I'm no killjoy. We have a Ferrari and a Porsche and it's great to stretch their legs a bit so I hope what you meant to say was lost in the print a little.
I doubt many others would have read it like that, but whatever. I guess adding the word safely might not have gone amiss.Cheers,
Bryn.
bryn_p said:
I doubt many others would have read it like that, but whatever. I guess adding the word safely might not have gone amiss.
Back on topic, almost all of my cars are LHD which is down to the fact I imported them from Japan where they like the cars to be as they were originally produced. I like that way of thinking, after all no Ferrari in the last 50 years was designed as a RHD car. Same for Porsche as someone mentioned above.
Cheers,
Bryn.
I thought Japan drove on the left, like the UK?Back on topic, almost all of my cars are LHD which is down to the fact I imported them from Japan where they like the cars to be as they were originally produced. I like that way of thinking, after all no Ferrari in the last 50 years was designed as a RHD car. Same for Porsche as someone mentioned above.
Cheers,
Bryn.
roygarth said:
I've not followed all other non-limited LHD Ferrari prices, but my LHD 550 has gone up an identical % to the RHD's available when I bought a couple of years ago.
I'm talking about sales in the UK. You're valuing your LHD car at UK prices. Try putting it up for that money in Italy, France or Germany...TP321 said:
The Ferrari market is going crazy and some of the prices are just plain stupid. Even in its day, the 348 was crap - the NSX was miles better, and even 10 years ago, they couldn't give the 348s away. Now all of a sudden, the 348 has become a £50k car....nuts!!
Do you own a 348?Have you ever owned a 348?
Have you ever even driven a 348?
Or are you basing your "expert" opinion on the negative press that has been generated about the 348 over the years?
Here's what EVO magazine had to say about the 348 more recently:
(From: http://www.evo.co.uk/ferrari/458/12164/ferrari-458... ):
"The 348, if I’m honest, was probably the car I was least excited about driving, assuming it would just be a poorer, slower first stab at the 355. But now I’m excited because it’s instantly obvious this car has some of the best steering, possibly the best, that I have ever sat behind.
The engine is powerful enough rather than memorable and again the brakes are surprisingly strong and full of feel, but it’s the corners I’m starting to enjoy. The nose feels direct and eager to react, which is another surprise, so you get a lot of confidence guiding it through the shallow sweepers of the plain. By the time I reach a tighter series of S-bends I’m feeling inclined to pitch it in, but thankfully I’m a bit cautious the first time through. Turn in positively with that lovely steering and suddenly the engine behind you feels like it’s mounted very high up. The weight instantly wants to come round behind you and, unnervingly, it feels almost like the 348’s picking up an inside real wheel. ‘Don’t, whatever you do, lift off now,’ you have to tell yourself. Metcalfe, who has a bit of a ‘moment’ in the 348 later on, hits the nail on the head: ‘It’s like a mid-engined Peugeot 205 GTI; exciting when it’s going well but capable of delivering a heart-in-mouth moment should you dare hesitate when entering a corner a little too fast.’ I can certainly understand why road testers at the time were unnerved by it, particularly in the wet."
And they sum up by stating:
"But the reassuring thing is that the 458’s astounding pace and wizardry don’t diminish the other cars here. There are similarities and differences from first to last but each has its own distinct personality and you could find multiple perfectly rational and perfectly irrational reasons for being excited by any one of them. For example, my highlight was probably the 348’s steering, and that’s not something I’d expected at the beginning of the day. The point is that they all do justice to the small rectangular badge they share on their noses. And that’s a huge relief to the small boy in me."
The Honda NSX was a better car?
Yes, basically it was in some ways! It was a lot easier to live with, and it was far easier to drive fast, which was it's major downfall - It was just too easy to drive fast!
I have quite a large collection of magazines from "back in the day" when the 348 was put up against the NSX and the conclusion was almost always:
"The NSX is the better car of the two - But I just don't want one! It simply doesn't feel as special to drive as the Ferrari does, and there's no sense of achievement when it comes to driving it fast. It almost does everything too well, with no real effort required from the driver.
The Ferrari 348 on the other hand makes you work a lot harder to achieve the same level of performance, and you will rarely get it right. But on those rare days that you do get it right, you will feel that it was you the driver who achieved it and who deserves the credit, rather than it mainly being down to the car, as you feel with the NSX!"
Of course, I am completely biased in all of this as I'm the proud owner of one of those "crap" 348's!
The NSX is the better car?: Who gives a s
t! - Try as it might, it's still not a Ferrari, and I'd rather have a "crap" Ferrari than a "miles better" Honda any day of the week! 
rubystone said:
roygarth said:
I've not followed all other non-limited LHD Ferrari prices, but my LHD 550 has gone up an identical % to the RHD's available when I bought a couple of years ago.
I'm talking about sales in the UK. You're valuing your LHD car at UK prices. Try putting it up for that money in Italy, France or Germany...You said 'the issue is thinking that any non limited series car in lhd will appreciate in value in the UK in line with its RHD brethren.'
I thought you were implying that LHD will not appreciate in value as much as RHD in the UK?
I'm saying that in my experience (4 different cars (2 Ferrari, 2 Porsche) bought and sold over last 12 years) LHD appreciates in value the same if not more than RHD in the UK.
I am valuing cars at UK prices because, er, that's where I've been buying and selling them.
4rephill said:
Do you own a 348?
Have you ever owned a 348?
Have you ever even driven a 348?
Or are you basing your "expert" opinion on the negative press that has been generated about the 348 over the years?
Here's what EVO magazine had to say about the 348 more recently:
(From: http://www.evo.co.uk/ferrari/458/12164/ferrari-458... ):
"The 348, if I’m honest, was probably the car I was least excited about driving, assuming it would just be a poorer, slower first stab at the 355. But now I’m excited because it’s instantly obvious this car has some of the best steering, possibly the best, that I have ever sat behind.
The engine is powerful enough rather than memorable and again the brakes are surprisingly strong and full of feel, but it’s the corners I’m starting to enjoy. The nose feels direct and eager to react, which is another surprise, so you get a lot of confidence guiding it through the shallow sweepers of the plain. By the time I reach a tighter series of S-bends I’m feeling inclined to pitch it in, but thankfully I’m a bit cautious the first time through. Turn in positively with that lovely steering and suddenly the engine behind you feels like it’s mounted very high up. The weight instantly wants to come round behind you and, unnervingly, it feels almost like the 348’s picking up an inside real wheel. ‘Don’t, whatever you do, lift off now,’ you have to tell yourself. Metcalfe, who has a bit of a ‘moment’ in the 348 later on, hits the nail on the head: ‘It’s like a mid-engined Peugeot 205 GTI; exciting when it’s going well but capable of delivering a heart-in-mouth moment should you dare hesitate when entering a corner a little too fast.’ I can certainly understand why road testers at the time were unnerved by it, particularly in the wet."
And they sum up by stating:
"But the reassuring thing is that the 458’s astounding pace and wizardry don’t diminish the other cars here. There are similarities and differences from first to last but each has its own distinct personality and you could find multiple perfectly rational and perfectly irrational reasons for being excited by any one of them. For example, my highlight was probably the 348’s steering, and that’s not something I’d expected at the beginning of the day. The point is that they all do justice to the small rectangular badge they share on their noses. And that’s a huge relief to the small boy in me."
The Honda NSX was a better car?
Yes, basically it was in some ways! It was a lot easier to live with, and it was far easier to drive fast, which was it's major downfall - It was just too easy to drive fast!
I have quite a large collection of magazines from "back in the day" when the 348 was put up against the NSX and the conclusion was almost always:
"The NSX is the better car of the two - But I just don't want one! It simply doesn't feel as special to drive as the Ferrari does, and there's no sense of achievement when it comes to driving it fast. It almost does everything too well, with no real effort required from the driver.
The Ferrari 348 on the other hand makes you work a lot harder to achieve the same level of performance, and you will rarely get it right. But on those rare days that you do get it right, you will feel that it was you the driver who achieved it and who deserves the credit, rather than it mainly being down to the car, as you feel with the NSX!"
Of course, I am completely biased in all of this as I'm the proud owner of one of those "crap" 348's!
The NSX is the better car?: Who gives a st! - Try as it might, it's still not a Ferrari, and I'd rather have a "crap" Ferrari than a "miles better" Honda any day of the week!
I have never owned a 348 because of its crap reputation but i did own a Testarossa..which was also crap - drove like a bus! I also owned an NSX which was miles better. Ferraris of that period are just for posing... Have you ever owned a 348?
Have you ever even driven a 348?
Or are you basing your "expert" opinion on the negative press that has been generated about the 348 over the years?
Here's what EVO magazine had to say about the 348 more recently:
(From: http://www.evo.co.uk/ferrari/458/12164/ferrari-458... ):
"The 348, if I’m honest, was probably the car I was least excited about driving, assuming it would just be a poorer, slower first stab at the 355. But now I’m excited because it’s instantly obvious this car has some of the best steering, possibly the best, that I have ever sat behind.
The engine is powerful enough rather than memorable and again the brakes are surprisingly strong and full of feel, but it’s the corners I’m starting to enjoy. The nose feels direct and eager to react, which is another surprise, so you get a lot of confidence guiding it through the shallow sweepers of the plain. By the time I reach a tighter series of S-bends I’m feeling inclined to pitch it in, but thankfully I’m a bit cautious the first time through. Turn in positively with that lovely steering and suddenly the engine behind you feels like it’s mounted very high up. The weight instantly wants to come round behind you and, unnervingly, it feels almost like the 348’s picking up an inside real wheel. ‘Don’t, whatever you do, lift off now,’ you have to tell yourself. Metcalfe, who has a bit of a ‘moment’ in the 348 later on, hits the nail on the head: ‘It’s like a mid-engined Peugeot 205 GTI; exciting when it’s going well but capable of delivering a heart-in-mouth moment should you dare hesitate when entering a corner a little too fast.’ I can certainly understand why road testers at the time were unnerved by it, particularly in the wet."
And they sum up by stating:
"But the reassuring thing is that the 458’s astounding pace and wizardry don’t diminish the other cars here. There are similarities and differences from first to last but each has its own distinct personality and you could find multiple perfectly rational and perfectly irrational reasons for being excited by any one of them. For example, my highlight was probably the 348’s steering, and that’s not something I’d expected at the beginning of the day. The point is that they all do justice to the small rectangular badge they share on their noses. And that’s a huge relief to the small boy in me."
The Honda NSX was a better car?
Yes, basically it was in some ways! It was a lot easier to live with, and it was far easier to drive fast, which was it's major downfall - It was just too easy to drive fast!
I have quite a large collection of magazines from "back in the day" when the 348 was put up against the NSX and the conclusion was almost always:
"The NSX is the better car of the two - But I just don't want one! It simply doesn't feel as special to drive as the Ferrari does, and there's no sense of achievement when it comes to driving it fast. It almost does everything too well, with no real effort required from the driver.
The Ferrari 348 on the other hand makes you work a lot harder to achieve the same level of performance, and you will rarely get it right. But on those rare days that you do get it right, you will feel that it was you the driver who achieved it and who deserves the credit, rather than it mainly being down to the car, as you feel with the NSX!"
Of course, I am completely biased in all of this as I'm the proud owner of one of those "crap" 348's!
The NSX is the better car?: Who gives a s
t! - Try as it might, it's still not a Ferrari, and I'd rather have a "crap" Ferrari than a "miles better" Honda any day of the week! By the way this was 13 years ago when even the NSX was still a bit relevant - of course nowadays, all three (348, Testarossa, NSX) will feel crap compared with modern supercars.
Edited by TP321 on Wednesday 28th October 10:41
TP321 said:
I have never owned a 348 because of its crap reputation but i did own a Testarossa..which was also crap - drove like a bus! I also owned an NSX which was miles better. Ferraris of that period are just for posing...
By the way this was 13 years ago when even the NSX was still a bit relevant - of course nowadays, all three (348, Testarossa, NSX) will feel crap compared with modern supercars.
I did own a 1991 NSX and 1992 348 back to back in the 90s and preferred the 348. The Honda was very capable but boring and had possibly the worst interior of any car I have ever owned, truly horrible place to sit.By the way this was 13 years ago when even the NSX was still a bit relevant - of course nowadays, all three (348, Testarossa, NSX) will feel crap compared with modern supercars.
Edited by TP321 on Wednesday 28th October 10:41
TP321 said:
The Ferrari market is going crazy and some of the prices are just plain stupid. Even in its day, the 348 was crap - the NSX was miles better, and even 10 years ago, they couldn't give the 348s away. Now all of a sudden, the 348 has become a £50k car....nuts!!
I think the basic premise is interesting, if you delete all the personal preference stuff. For a long time 348s have been comparatively cheap. They were cheap due to low demand. The prices are now soaring due to high demand. So if people didnt want them before, why such the rush now?It feels like there is an element of lemmings with the whole classic Ferrari market. People just buying because others are.
kryten22uk said:
I think the basic premise is interesting, if you delete all the personal preference stuff. For a long time 348s have been comparatively cheap. They were cheap due to low demand. The prices are now soaring due to high demand. So if people didnt want them before, why such the rush now?
It feels like there is an element of lemmings with the whole classic Ferrari market. People just buying because others are.
that's exactly what it is. When the 355 came out in mid 90s, they couldn't give the 348 away for free! No all of a sudden, the 348 is the best thing since sliced bread...come on - its just all this classic car nonsense. People should buy a modern supercar and live relative to their times, not try and live in the past...It feels like there is an element of lemmings with the whole classic Ferrari market. People just buying because others are.
kryten22uk said:
TP321 said:
The Ferrari market is going crazy and some of the prices are just plain stupid. Even in its day, the 348 was crap - the NSX was miles better, and even 10 years ago, they couldn't give the 348s away. Now all of a sudden, the 348 has become a £50k car....nuts!!
I think the basic premise is interesting, if you delete all the personal preference stuff. For a long time 348s have been comparatively cheap. They were cheap due to low demand. The prices are now soaring due to high demand. So if people didnt want them before, why such the rush now?It feels like there is an element of lemmings with the whole classic Ferrari market. People just buying because others are.
A lot of people have missed the Ferrari boat here in the UK. Therefore, if one wants to buy a Ferrari on a budget, what options are there? High miles, Cat D, LHD or buy a car that is considered a poor relation?
That's why 348s are rising in value, why LHD cars are fetching strong money and why I won't be selling my 69,689 miles RHD 575 anytime soon.
I agree with the sentiment that people will buy a 348, or indeed any 'lesser' Ferrari because they want is a 'Ferrari'. Do they care a stuff about instability because of a higher CoG, or whether the strakes are passé? Of course they don't! About time that these cars have their spell in the limelight.
That's why 348s are rising in value, why LHD cars are fetching strong money and why I won't be selling my 69,689 miles RHD 575 anytime soon.
I agree with the sentiment that people will buy a 348, or indeed any 'lesser' Ferrari because they want is a 'Ferrari'. Do they care a stuff about instability because of a higher CoG, or whether the strakes are passé? Of course they don't! About time that these cars have their spell in the limelight.
Great read guys, it's clear the LHD market in the UK has swelled to the point that there is only LHD's on sale, as you have said this obviously is down to supply and demand for a RHD Ferrari which are sadly being purchased by collectors and stored, unloved, unused, just purchased for investment.
As for comparing any Ferrari with an NSX, shame on you all, nothing else to add!!!!
As for comparing any Ferrari with an NSX, shame on you all, nothing else to add!!!!
I simply bought the best I could find, I have one RHD (355) and a LHD (550) I thought I would find it an issue with the LHD but haven't had any issues so far. I don't do car parks, drive through in the 550 any way !!
I do agree with regards to the better driving position of LHD cars, the 550 is pretty perfect where as the 355, 911's have all been a compromise especially the 993's I had.
Phib
I do agree with regards to the better driving position of LHD cars, the 550 is pretty perfect where as the 355, 911's have all been a compromise especially the 993's I had.
Phib
exactly phil, spec and colour and condition linked to price should always be the main issue rather than if its a RHD.
Ive just bought a LHD so Im biased having sold my RHD 360.
Ive had a left hand drive z1 for 5 yrs and never had any issues with it in London admittedly car parks are the only complication.
Ive just bought a LHD so Im biased having sold my RHD 360.
Ive had a left hand drive z1 for 5 yrs and never had any issues with it in London admittedly car parks are the only complication.
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