Stock 488 v stock 12C

[RamboLambo]

Jules360 said:

Numerous ? List them.

More than your profile but I don't need to list them. You will want copy V5's, keys and my home address next

[MDL111]

Sometimes on here I feel like I am back in kindergarden ....

[RamboLambo]

RamboLambo said:

More than your profile but I DON'T need to list them. You will want copy V5's, keys and my home address next

[Boshly]

Russell996 said:

I'm surprised you noticed the difference, in all my McLaren test drives on road and circuit I've never climbed out thinking the carbon tub has made the drive anymore enjoyable - clearly I'm not pushing the car to the limits!

Edited by Russell996 on Sunday 11th September 14:04

My McLaren is considerably stiffer and doesn't flex as much as my previous Ferrari or 911 as such. I'm no driving God by a long chalk and am probably only ever at 7/10th's when I'm absolutely gunning it but you can feel the difference with the roof down (disclaimer - I've never driven a 458/488!). Note it's the roads more than how hard you're driving them though I'm sure any track affectionados will highlight that too.

Both cars are wonderful in their own way and both have amazing virtues - I particularly loved the Mac's engineering design and build quality thus my choice - and a lot of that may be subjective but you can't deny the carbon tubs rigidity for an open car.

[Boshly]

MDL111 said:

Sometimes on here I feel like I am back in kindergarden ....

[icebite78]

But why talk about mclaren in the ferrari section??

Why doesn't the ferrari owners start threads in the mclaren forum??

I have the answer.... insecurity....

It's like football fans constantly bashing the best team that keeps on beating all other teams

Mumbo lambo can't seem to let it go
Its ok mate that you haven't got the best and most aspirational car/marque which everyone knows is Ferrari.
You chose the lesser car and you know it and that's what hurts.
I love it when envy consumes people to hate,it really highlights your weakness.

Us ferrari owners are used to and love the hate...

[Russell996]

Boshly said:

My McLaren is considerably stiffer and doesn't flex as much as my previous Ferrari or 911 as such. I'm no driving God by a long chalk and am probably only ever at 7/10th's when I'm absolutely gunning it but you can feel the difference with the roof down (disclaimer - I've never driven a 458/488!). Note it's the roads more than how hard you're driving them though I'm sure any track affectionados will highlight that too.

Both cars are wonderful in their own way and both have amazing virtues - I particularly loved the Mac's engineering design and build quality thus my choice - and a lot of that may be subjective but you can't deny the carbon tubs rigidity for an open car.

Not doubting that the carbon tub is stiffer, simply stating that I can't feel the difference and therefore having a carbon tub is not the deciding factor for me on what convertible to choose.

[boxerTen]

Russell996 said:

Not doubting that the carbon tub is stiffer, simply stating that I can't feel the difference and therefore having a carbon tub is not the deciding factor for me on what convertible to choose.

I struggle to believe anyone can tell whether a modern supercar flexes or not and by how much. I certainly can't. I suspect its not the carbon tub of the McLaren thats getting noticed but rather the trick suspension that enables two different effective spring and damper rates, one for bump and one for roll, so no compromise need be made between ride and cornering ability.

[isaldiri]

boxerTen said:

Russell996 said:

Not doubting that the carbon tub is stiffer, simply stating that I can't feel the difference and therefore having a carbon tub is not the deciding factor for me on what convertible to choose.

I struggle to believe anyone can tell whether a modern supercar flexes or not and by how much. I certainly can't. I suspect its not the carbon tub of the McLaren thats getting noticed but rather the trick suspension that enables two different effective spring and damper rates, one for bump and one for roll, so no compromise need be made between ride and cornering ability.

Almost everyone i know who has driven a 458 spider has said that car displayed an unexpected amount of scuttle shake in comparison to the coupe. I believe the 458 spider was quoted by Ferrari at being 30% less torsional rigidity as the coupe...that has to count for something I'd have thought?

[RamboLambo]

icebite78 said:

But why talk about mclaren in the ferrari section??

Why doesn't the ferrari owners start threads in the mclaren forum??

I have the answer.... insecurity....

It's like football fans constantly bashing the best team that keeps on beating all other teams

Mumbo lambo can't seem to let it go
Its ok mate that you haven't got the best and most aspirational car/marque which everyone knows is Ferrari.
You chose the lesser car and you know it and that's what hurts.
I love it when envy consumes people to hate,it really highlights your weakness.

Us ferrari owners are used to and love the hate...

Envy ? Really ?

I've owned several Ferrari's, love the brand from boyhood and will never sell my F355GTS manual with capristo.

McLaren may not currently have the same brand strength as Ferrari but that does not mean its not perceived as being higher in the pecking order by the general public ( which is undoubtedly the response I get ) and its build quality is certainly second to none in my experience.

I buy what I personally think is the best car on the market for my needs at the time.
18 months ago that was clearly the 650S spider.
Today it might be the 488 Spider if I could ever live without the carbon tub which I think now unfortunately is a no for a convertible having been spoilt by the Mac.
The creeking and rattling from scuttle shake would drive me mad.
Carbon tub is the way forward for any supercar convertible IMHO

[Overhaul]

This thread is hilarious !

(Pulls up chair and breaks out the popcorn)

[Durzel]

If you're buying for yourself, and you want the best technologically available car, then that's fine - but I have to agree with the previous poster that it does sound like you're banging a drum about this stuff.

You could tell me that McLaren, Lambo or indeed Ferrari is best for X, Y, Z until you're blue in the face but it wouldn't alter my feelings about where my money would go. For those of us who aren't fortunate enough to own several supercars, where the relative differences become an actual purchasing metric, it'll always be able what your heart wants. It might (and in many cases probably is) the realisation of a dream you've had since youth.

In that context it really doesn't matter a great deal about carbon tubs and other Top Trumps comparisons. The heart wants what it wants, even if that happens to be the more compromised, less technologically advanced, etc car.

[MingtheMerciless]

I'm agnostic on brands but have only really considered F cars, partly because I have no easy access to any form of Mac or Lambo servicing, but also in the case of Mac tbh because I don't really want a turbo (and this means I don't really want a 488 all that much). I have driven a 12C and a 458 back to back on a track and came down slightly in favour of the 458 even though the suspension on the 12C, and I assume all subsequent Macs, is sublime. It also looks to me as if Macs are a work in progress as regards looks, and they all kind of look the same at the front after the 12C, which doesn't appeal to me. So I'm at the 60:40 F:Mac bias level but totally open to being persuaded otherwise.


I'd have any Mac over a Huracan though. Wait. That V10. Actually maybe not.

[icebite78]

At last some sensible response to an absolutely nothing thread.

Going back to my question ..why start a mclaren thread in the Ferrari v8 forum.

Why do you persistently chime in about your macca when someone asks a question about what ferrari to get in the ferrari forum

Insecure or troll which is it.

[Boshly]

boxerTen said:

Russell996 said:

Not doubting that the carbon tub is stiffer, simply stating that I can't feel the difference and therefore having a carbon tub is not the deciding factor for me on what convertible to choose.

I struggle to believe anyone can tell whether a modern supercar flexes or not and by how much. I certainly can't. I suspect its not the carbon tub of the McLaren thats getting noticed but rather the trick suspension that enables two different effective spring and damper rates, one for bump and one for roll, so no compromise need be made between ride and cornering ability.

You may well be right regarding the suspension but Im pretty sure manufacturers measure and record chassis flex and structural rigidity (thus the Ferrari claim in Isaldiris post) and the carbon tub gives the Mac consistent performance in that respect over coupe and spider.

You may not notice scuttle shake but many do, even more so when it's highlighted; it may not be an issue to you either. As I said each to his own but it does exist and is noticeable.

Also as someone else posted if you're buying the car you dreamt of as a kid then none of that matters either, and in many cases other redeeming features can mask shortcomings or even relegate them to insignificant in the overall scheme of things. People buy cars for many different reasons, and rank them according to many different criteria.

[JohnG123]

Just a simple question.

If Macas are so good, why when I was looking in March/April this year could I buy a brand new 650S
cabro for £40K of list.

That really made my decision for me and I went for a 458 spider.

[Boshly]

JohnG123 said:

Just a simple question.

If Macas are so good, why when I was looking in March/April this year could I buy a brand new 650S
cabro for £40K of list.

That really made my decision for me and I went for a 458 spider.

Because there's a bigger Ferrari fan base
Because there's a bigger Ferrari customer base
Because more people know about Ferrari than do McLaren
Because Ferraris marketing is excellent
Because Ferrari is a far wealthier and bigger conglomerate that is able to control prices better
And of course because more people are buying Ferraris (due to many of the above reasons and I'm sure other choices).

So your deduced logic is flawed. McLarens are bloody good, as are Ferraris I'm sure. What you can buy them for and what value retention they exhibit are based on many different criteria not just "how good" they are.

Ps enjoy your 458 Spider - I think you made the wrong decision especially if that's what you based it on

[RamboLambo]

Boshly said:

Because there's a bigger Ferrari fan base
Because there's a bigger Ferrari customer base
Because more people know about Ferrari than do McLaren
Because Ferraris marketing is excellent
Because Ferrari is a far wealthier and bigger conglomerate that is able to control prices better
And of course because more people are buying Ferraris (due to many of the above reasons and I'm sure other choices).

So your deduced logic is flawed. McLarens are bloody good, as are Ferraris I'm sure. What you can buy them for and what value retention they exhibit are based on many different criteria not just "how good" they are.

Ps enjoy your 458 Spider - I think you made the wrong decision especially if that's what you based it on

Absolutely spot on :thumbsup:

For all those reasons you pay a prancing horse premium for what I consider IMHO as an inferior "product"
Why be a sheep

[RamboLambo]

icebite78 said:

At last some sensible response to an absolutely nothing thread.

Going back to my question ..why start a mclaren thread in the Ferrari v8 forum.

Why do you persistently chime in about your macca when someone asks a question about what ferrari to get in the ferrari forum

Insecure or troll which is it.

Kiss my :

[Overhaul]

RamboLambo said:

icebite78 said:

At last some sensible response to an absolutely nothing thread.

Going back to my question ..why start a mclaren thread in the Ferrari v8 forum.

Why do you persistently chime in about your macca when someone asks a question about what ferrari to get in the ferrari forum

Insecure or troll which is it.

Kiss my :

Insecure...................................and immature by the looks of it too !