Eye popping F430 prices
Discussion
Personally I wouldn't buy either of these cars..... I sold my own F430 Spider, Manual, Rosso Corsa / Creme earlier this year in late April, when I believe prices were at an all time high, (for the short term at least).
I say for the short term at least, because although I personally don't expect to see any further increases on these cars any time soon, I do still believe that if any of us were to invest our money in either of these cars, in 10-15 years time, we'd see a far better return on our investment than we would from let's say the bank, or many other places for that matter.
Whether we agree with these asking prices or not, we have to admit, that cars in this condition, with this sort of milage are still real "one offs" After all, they won't be making anymore!
If you're someone who likes things to be "as new" or "perfect" and you're happy to tie up your money long term, this is not a bad place to invest.
All that said, if I were going to invest, I'd still want at least 15% off these prices.
I say for the short term at least, because although I personally don't expect to see any further increases on these cars any time soon, I do still believe that if any of us were to invest our money in either of these cars, in 10-15 years time, we'd see a far better return on our investment than we would from let's say the bank, or many other places for that matter.
Whether we agree with these asking prices or not, we have to admit, that cars in this condition, with this sort of milage are still real "one offs" After all, they won't be making anymore!
If you're someone who likes things to be "as new" or "perfect" and you're happy to tie up your money long term, this is not a bad place to invest.
All that said, if I were going to invest, I'd still want at least 15% off these prices.
Edited by allister on Friday 11th November 05:48
I love manuals and would much rather own a manual version regardless of car, but the current hype on manual cars and Ferraris especially has gone too far imo.
I suspect it will end in tears for investors thinking a 500k manual 599 or a 250k manual 575 (or a 150k manual 430) is a good investment. Ultimately these are just versions of models where plenty of cars were built.
I did read people are doing manual conversions now, which is what I briefly considered for a Scud before they went up in price and then briefly again when thinking about creating a manual "as-light-as-possible" 599..... after looking at parts prices/hours required I realized I need a lot more money and the ideas have been put on the back burner (possibly forever).
I suspect it will end in tears for investors thinking a 500k manual 599 or a 250k manual 575 (or a 150k manual 430) is a good investment. Ultimately these are just versions of models where plenty of cars were built.
I did read people are doing manual conversions now, which is what I briefly considered for a Scud before they went up in price and then briefly again when thinking about creating a manual "as-light-as-possible" 599..... after looking at parts prices/hours required I realized I need a lot more money and the ideas have been put on the back burner (possibly forever).
allister said:
Personally I wouldn't buy either of these cars..... I sold my own F430 Spider, Manual, Rosso Corsa / Creme earlier this year in late April, when I believe prices were at an all time high, (for the short term at least).
I say for the short term at least, because although I personally don't expect to see any further increases on these cars any time soon, I do still believe that if any of us were to invest our money in either of these cars, in 10-15 years time, we'd see a far better return on our investment than we would from let's say the bank, or many other places for that matter.
Whether we agree with these asking prices or not, we have to admit, that cars in this condition, with this sort of milage are still real "one offs" After all, they won't be making anymore!
If you're someone who likes things to be "as new" or "perfect" and you're happy to tie up your money long term, this is not a bad place to invest.
All that said, if I were going to invest, I'd still want at least 15% off these prices.
Cars are terrible investments long term unless you see some insane capital appreciation. The storage, insurance, maintenance, dealer margin, opportunity cost and inflation often will mean most cars held for 10-15 years won't even break even despite being 'double' what they were purchased for. It's only if F430s go to £350k, £400k+ (in 2016 sterling) that you really start to see a worthwhile gain and I really don't see that happening, the car just isn't rare or special enough.I say for the short term at least, because although I personally don't expect to see any further increases on these cars any time soon, I do still believe that if any of us were to invest our money in either of these cars, in 10-15 years time, we'd see a far better return on our investment than we would from let's say the bank, or many other places for that matter.
Whether we agree with these asking prices or not, we have to admit, that cars in this condition, with this sort of milage are still real "one offs" After all, they won't be making anymore!
If you're someone who likes things to be "as new" or "perfect" and you're happy to tie up your money long term, this is not a bad place to invest.
All that said, if I were going to invest, I'd still want at least 15% off these prices.
Edited by allister on Friday 11th November 05:48
sealtt said:
Cars are terrible investments long term unless you see some insane capital appreciation. The storage, insurance, maintenance, dealer margin, opportunity cost and inflation often will mean most cars held for 10-15 years won't even break even despite being 'double' what they were purchased for. It's only if F430s go to £350k, £400k+ (in 2016 sterling) that you really start to see a worthwhile gain and I really don't see that happening, the car just isn't rare or special enough.
hows that different from any other investment? almost all investments have costs associated with them, ultimately as long as theres "profit" its a sound investment whether thats a car or property or stocks or whatever, yes cars can be bad investments, but again that applies to investing in general.Nano2nd said:
hows that different from any other investment? almost all investments have costs associated with them, ultimately as long as theres "profit" its a sound investment whether thats a car or property or stocks or whatever, yes cars can be bad investments, but again that applies to investing in general.
It is incredibly different to most common investments... firstly most common investments produce a net income each year, not a net cost! Your philosophy of 'as long as there is profit' is a great way to justify "investing" in an F430, in the sense of telling your wife that you had to buy that F430 on the driveway because it's going to go up in value, but a terrible way to justify an actual investment in the sense of getting a positive return on your money as it totally ignores risk. Your method means that 47.5% of players would class roulette as a sound investment!!It's not a bad investment because it might go down, it's a bad investment because it has a negative rnpv (risk weighted npv) given imo the v low chance of immense capital appreciation. Like I said I don't see the fundamentals being there for these things to ever be trading at 300k, 400k, 500k in 2016 GBP.
Storing, insuring, taxing, servicing, maintaining and reselling a supercar can be done for as little as roughly £3-6k a year (including inflation). So, for a rough rule of thumb, a supercar needs to appreciate by around ~£10k a year to make it a really worthwhile investment. Very few cars do / have done that.
Yipper said:
Storing, insuring, taxing, servicing, maintaining and reselling a supercar can be done for as little as roughly £3-6k a year (including inflation). So, for a rough rule of thumb, a supercar needs to appreciate by around ~£10k a year to make it a really worthwhile investment. Very few cars do / have done that.
The way I look at is that a regular new road car will lose circa 50% in the first 3 years.A classic car would be considered in a bubble that had burst if it lost that much in 3 years.
So as long as regular running costs etc are reasonable then you still haven't really lost out until you have lost more than 50%.
I ran a F599 for 2 years. It cost about £12k in running costs and buying/selling differential. That is not a bad return given if I had bought a new £40k car I probably would have lost far more.
baypond said:
Yipper said:
Storing, insuring, taxing, servicing, maintaining and reselling a supercar can be done for as little as roughly £3-6k a year (including inflation). So, for a rough rule of thumb, a supercar needs to appreciate by around ~£10k a year to make it a really worthwhile investment. Very few cars do / have done that.
The way I look at is that a regular new road car will lose circa 50% in the first 3 years.A classic car would be considered in a bubble that had burst if it lost that much in 3 years.
So as long as regular running costs etc are reasonable then you still haven't really lost out until you have lost more than 50%.
I ran a F599 for 2 years. It cost about £12k in running costs and buying/selling differential. That is not a bad return given if I had bought a new £40k car I probably would have lost far more.
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