Does replacement engine affect 360 value much?
Discussion
This could be a rare exception but I know of at least one of the Silverstone cars that was pretty much a cut-and-shut, I know several of the Silverstone instructors and I've heard all about these cars first hand.
I genuinely don't think it's a good bet, I've had several 360's and a good one may cost you more to buy but wont cause you headaches in maintenance - parts are not cheap on these and I'm not convinced this car would give you the proper 360 experience anyway after spending money, more money spent upfront will give you a much more rewarding ownership experience. The cheapest of anything is often not good, the cheapest of a Ferrari is pretty much a guaranteed recipe for trouble (I have over 20 years ownership experience of Ferraris and trust me I have been there).
As mentioned, have you looked in Europe? If you dont mind LHD plenty around for 50k EUR which would be mid-£40ks. German and Belgian cars tend to be well maintained and quite straight (their MOT requirements are stricter than the UK).
I genuinely don't think it's a good bet, I've had several 360's and a good one may cost you more to buy but wont cause you headaches in maintenance - parts are not cheap on these and I'm not convinced this car would give you the proper 360 experience anyway after spending money, more money spent upfront will give you a much more rewarding ownership experience. The cheapest of anything is often not good, the cheapest of a Ferrari is pretty much a guaranteed recipe for trouble (I have over 20 years ownership experience of Ferraris and trust me I have been there).
As mentioned, have you looked in Europe? If you dont mind LHD plenty around for 50k EUR which would be mid-£40ks. German and Belgian cars tend to be well maintained and quite straight (their MOT requirements are stricter than the UK).
Lord Marylebone said:
My business is car bodywork and I've had a really good look round the car, and it's straight as an arrow. All the panels look original.
I can see where it's had paint in the past on one of the doors, but that's about it.
I would paint the complete car anyway just to get rid of the stonechips that are present on nearly all panels, and to make it mint.
It will have had a hard life. It's done 60k miles purely on a racetrack...
But the fact that the engine and transmission has been replaced since then is probably a good thing, and it's had 3 years of being looked after since then and numerous other bits replaced.
It drives really well and sounds epic as it has some sort of race exhaust on it. Comes with standard exhaust as well.
I'm just not sure...
The price is so tempting.
I know it'll never be an £80k car due to the mileage etc, but it might be cheap enough for me to just drive and enjoy without being too precious about it.
You being in the bodywork business changes things somewhat. I can see where it's had paint in the past on one of the doors, but that's about it.
I would paint the complete car anyway just to get rid of the stonechips that are present on nearly all panels, and to make it mint.
It will have had a hard life. It's done 60k miles purely on a racetrack...
But the fact that the engine and transmission has been replaced since then is probably a good thing, and it's had 3 years of being looked after since then and numerous other bits replaced.
It drives really well and sounds epic as it has some sort of race exhaust on it. Comes with standard exhaust as well.
I'm just not sure...
The price is so tempting.
I know it'll never be an £80k car due to the mileage etc, but it might be cheap enough for me to just drive and enjoy without being too precious about it.
Get it inspected from an engineering pov by someone who knows what these inside out, and if all ok go for it.
If you are painting the whole car to a high standard, I would imagine that will add sufficient value to it, to offset any engine change related price decrease.
Having weighed it all up, I think I've talked myself out of it.
Yes, it's a little cheaper than others, but I'm just worried it's spent a massive 60k miles hitting kerbs on a racetrack and now has a non-matching numbers engine.
I think I would rather pay that little bit more and get one with a better history behind it.
Edited to add: Thanks very much to all who commented in the thread with advice!
Yes, it's a little cheaper than others, but I'm just worried it's spent a massive 60k miles hitting kerbs on a racetrack and now has a non-matching numbers engine.
I think I would rather pay that little bit more and get one with a better history behind it.
Edited to add: Thanks very much to all who commented in the thread with advice!
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 4th March 21:22
I bought a 55k mile track experience 360 for £42k. Spent a few £k on clutch, ball-joints and service, tidied up the interior myself, and a year on now it is awesome, reliable and doesn't miss a beat. All the bits that take a beating on the track are replaceable. If the engine is good, £40k is not far to fall...
I think I know which car this. My head got the better of me. For an extra 15k you can get a car that doesn't have this kind of history and wil be much easier to sell on later (that time often comes). It doesn't matter how much "fixing you do to it. The last guy put a new engine in it and it's not helping the sale :-) if you can afford to be 45k down then buy it. Otherwise save a bit more and get a car without the history.
slarti650 said:
I think I know which car this. My head got the better of me. For an extra 15k you can get a car that doesn't have this kind of history and wil be much easier to sell on later (that time often comes). It doesn't matter how much "fixing you do to it. The last guy put a new engine in it and it's not helping the sale :-) if you can afford to be 45k down then buy it. Otherwise save a bit more and get a car without the history.
It was offered to me at £40k, and even at that I just couldn't feel comfortable for some reason.It was just so rough inside. Holes in the leather where there had been bolts for a roll cage and suchlike.
To some people it would have been perfectly fine to own and drive like that, but it was just absolutely everywhere inside. Every bit of leather or plastic was either scratched, marked, worn out or broken. All the buttons and switches had the writing worn off.
Every panel was marked or stonechipped, there was a crack in the quarter panel, engine undertray missing, rear diffuser was cracked and the composite all flaking.
It was tatty inside the engine bay and even under the front bonnet it looked grubby and used.
The windscreen was cracked (£1100).
The engine light was on as it needed a new ECU because Silverstone had apparently tinkered with the one in the car, lowering the rev limit etc.
I've got that horrible sick feeling that I've 'missed out' on a bargain this morning, but maybe it's for the best.
The history was as expected for a track car. 3 decent dealer services at first then no stamps or anything for 14 years or so. Just a scribble in one box by a mechanic confirming it had been 'serviced every 6 months in-house'.
The engine swap was a real shame for me. In some ways it made sense as it made the car reliable and drivable for the owner, but it really knocked the value for me.
The total cost of buying and fitting a low miles engine was £11k for the owner. I wonder how much a rebuild of the original engine would have been?
yzr500 said:
my good 360 manual would stuggle to sell at £60k today .
What do you feel is happening with 360 prices at the moment?I was getting a little edgy that everything would be £80-100k soon for even the cheapest examples, but I've since seen a slew of cars at around £55-60k that have been for sale for months.
Lord Marylebone said:
It was offered to me at £40k, and even at that I just couldn't feel comfortable for some reason.
It was just so rough inside. Holes in the leather where there had been bolts for a roll cage and suchlike.
To some people it would have been perfectly fine to own and drive like that, but it was just absolutely everywhere inside. Every bit of leather or plastic was either scratched, marked, worn out or broken. All the buttons and switches had the writing worn off.
Every panel was marked or stonechipped, there was a crack in the quarter panel, engine undertray missing, rear diffuser was cracked and the composite all flaking.
It was tatty inside the engine bay and even under the front bonnet it looked grubby and used.
The windscreen was cracked (£1100).
The engine light was on as it needed a new ECU because Silverstone had apparently tinkered with the one in the car, lowering the rev limit etc.
I've got that horrible sick feeling that I've 'missed out' on a bargain this morning, but maybe it's for the best.
Suspect not!!It was just so rough inside. Holes in the leather where there had been bolts for a roll cage and suchlike.
To some people it would have been perfectly fine to own and drive like that, but it was just absolutely everywhere inside. Every bit of leather or plastic was either scratched, marked, worn out or broken. All the buttons and switches had the writing worn off.
Every panel was marked or stonechipped, there was a crack in the quarter panel, engine undertray missing, rear diffuser was cracked and the composite all flaking.
It was tatty inside the engine bay and even under the front bonnet it looked grubby and used.
The windscreen was cracked (£1100).
The engine light was on as it needed a new ECU because Silverstone had apparently tinkered with the one in the car, lowering the rev limit etc.
I've got that horrible sick feeling that I've 'missed out' on a bargain this morning, but maybe it's for the best.
As dang below said, buying a track car is fine and those parts are replaceable, but it shouldn't have as much wear as you described.
p.s. in future can you add all the information in the first post!
hyphen said:
p.s. in future can you add all the information in the first post!
I usually try to include as much info as I can when I post, however I was trying to be slightly coy over this one as I was still debating buying it.I didn't want to post all the details and link to the advert etc in case someone read this thread and promptly bought the vehicle whilst I was thinking about it.
WCZ said:
generally those experience days are absolutely s
te though, the 'instructors' are petrified of the drivers and won't let them push the car in any way.
Absolutely.te though, the 'instructors' are petrified of the drivers and won't let them push the car in any way.My business partner is lucky enough to be one of life's naturally very gifted drivers, and spends trackdays passing absolutely everything including 'racing drivers' testing their race prepared GT cars. Even when he's on the road he can take a RWD car he's never driven before and hold it in a massive powerslide round the business park and send it into roundabouts at speeds that you are absolutely convinced will end in a massive accident.
He went to the Silverstone driving experience about 6 months ago with his son and a couple of friends and ended up having a go in a couple of Ferrari's.
The session ended with him having a massive shouting argument with the Instructor and telling him "You know I can drive better than you, so stop being a fanny and let me drive the f
king thing properly. I didn't pay all this money to plod round a track at only 90mph and follow your bad lines through corners".Compare that with some of the manufacturer driving days we've been invited on where the instructors have said to him "it's pretty obvious you can peddle a car, so just go nuts" and he then proceeds to drift the latest Jaguar XF-RS round the track.
Lord Marylebone said:
Absolutely.
My business partner is lucky enough to be one of life's naturally very gifted drivers, and spends trackdays passing absolutely everything including 'racing drivers' testing their race prepared GT cars. Even when he's on the road he can take a RWD car he's never driven before and hold it in a massive powerslide round the business park and send it into roundabouts at speeds that you are absolutely convinced will end in a massive accident.
He went to the Silverstone driving experience about 6 months ago with his son and a couple of friends and ended up having a go in a couple of Ferrari's.
The session ended with him having a massive shouting argument with the Instructor and telling him "You know I can drive better than you, so stop being a fanny and let me drive the fking thing properly. I didn't pay all this money to plod round a track at only 90mph and follow your bad lines through corners".
Compare that with some of the manufacturer driving days we've been invited on where the instructors have said to him "it's pretty obvious you can peddle a car, so just go nuts" and he then proceeds to drift the latest Jaguar XF-RS round the track.
hahaha that echos my brief experience with them too. I also got into an argument !My business partner is lucky enough to be one of life's naturally very gifted drivers, and spends trackdays passing absolutely everything including 'racing drivers' testing their race prepared GT cars. Even when he's on the road he can take a RWD car he's never driven before and hold it in a massive powerslide round the business park and send it into roundabouts at speeds that you are absolutely convinced will end in a massive accident.
He went to the Silverstone driving experience about 6 months ago with his son and a couple of friends and ended up having a go in a couple of Ferrari's.
The session ended with him having a massive shouting argument with the Instructor and telling him "You know I can drive better than you, so stop being a fanny and let me drive the f
king thing properly. I didn't pay all this money to plod round a track at only 90mph and follow your bad lines through corners".Compare that with some of the manufacturer driving days we've been invited on where the instructors have said to him "it's pretty obvious you can peddle a car, so just go nuts" and he then proceeds to drift the latest Jaguar XF-RS round the track.
WCZ said:
hahaha that echos my brief experience with them too. I also got into an argument !
They absolutely hate it when they get someone in the car who can properly drive, it just makes them look silly, and they spend the entire time telling them to slow down to a speed which actually makes it harder for the fast driver to hit the right lines.A good day for them must be getting a load of people who are totally incompetent in a car and think that 70mph is 'absolutely flying'.
Lord Marylebone said:
They absolutely hate it when they get someone in the car who can properly drive, it just makes them look silly,.
I wouldn't say I'm a great driver, but it's also quite funny when being nannied about how to drive a 911 and they ask what else you have. 'Er, Murcielago, Ford GT.....'I think you are being a little unfair - not many people are supercar owners and very few of them (despite what they think) are driving gods
These experiences exist for everyone else to drive their dreams at relatively low cost and safely so don't take it out on the instructor if you believe you are one of the talented and/or privileged minority
These experiences exist for everyone else to drive their dreams at relatively low cost and safely so don't take it out on the instructor if you believe you are one of the talented and/or privileged minority
HAHA that was my experience too. I have done a fair few track days in my own cars but am by no means a great driver. My mum bought me an "experience" day for Christmas. The first car was a 911 turbo, I had never driven one before. I got to the breaking board before the corner so braked hard as you would. The brakes on the 911 were better than I expect and the instructor almost bought up his lunch. To be fair to him once he had composed himself he let me drive the cars. Talking of 360's I had 4 laps on one of those and overtook my brother who was driving a Lambo Gallardo, having some track driving experience does make a massive difference.
On the 360 you were looking at I would have negotiated hard. It's going to be a very hard car for the seller to get rid of and let's face it your going in with your eyes (and wallet) open. You could buy a car for 20k more and still have a major issue the following week.
Good luck with your search.
On the 360 you were looking at I would have negotiated hard. It's going to be a very hard car for the seller to get rid of and let's face it your going in with your eyes (and wallet) open. You could buy a car for 20k more and still have a major issue the following week.
Good luck with your search.
LIVENT said:
On the 360 you were looking at I would have negotiated hard. It's going to be a very hard car for the seller to get rid of
Evidently not. He had, and I'm not making this up, over 200 enquiries from people wanting to see it.
I was the first person he 'allowed' to come and see it as I was fairly local, and 5 minutes after I said I wasn't sure about it, he sold it to his neighbour for £40k cash.
The neighbour didn't even want it as a car, he just thought it was so stupidly cheap that he bought it just to stick in a barn behind his house as he thinks it'll be worth double in a few years. Apparently he's bought quite a few random cars like that and just put them in his barn as his pension fund.
LIVENT said:
HAHA that was my experience too. I have done a fair few track days in my own cars but am by no means a great driver. My mum bought me an "experience" day for Christmas. The first car was a 911 turbo, I had never driven one before. I got to the breaking board before the corner so braked hard as you would. The brakes on the 911 were better than I expect and the instructor almost bought up his lunch. To be fair to him once he had composed himself he let me drive the cars. Talking of 360's I had 4 laps on one of those and overtook my brother who was driving a Lambo Gallardo, having some track driving experience does make a massive difference.
...
That's probably my 360 you drove... Goodwood?...
The intructor told me that they limited the throttle pedal travel to 75%. Wasn't sure to believe him...
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