What to do 360 or California

[irdan87]

MDL111 said:

I assume the dealer would bring the car to the closest dealer for the PPI. Check if Ferrari will still warranty the car if it was serviced by an indie (if no, then tell the dealer it needs a service at Ferrari instead of the indie). I think Ferrari requires a check every time the warranty is extended on older cars.

I will call Ferrari to check but he did say on the phone that there is no real benefit to having it continue to be serviced by Ferrari as they won't warranty it now it is 9 years old. Not sure how correct that is but I will call tomorrow.

[BlackR8]

MDL111 said:

irdan87 said:

BlackR8 said:

I would agree with the point about buying from a main dealer. The car you link to above is from a dealer that sells all sorts from Peugeot's and Citroens to Mercedes but nothing bar this Ferrari in the exotic range. If you would consider buying out of the Ferrari network then atleast buy from a well respected specialist, I personally wouldn't go to a generic trader for a Ferrari. If the price was very appealing at the very least I would get a comprehensive PPI done, or try negotiate a 1 year Ferrari Warranty as part of the deal (assume dealer would have to give the car to a main dealer for a check and then buy the warranty).

I did think this when looking at other stock. My wife is interested in there GLE too you see which are the 2 most expensive vehicles they have. The Cali is the directors personal car with brand new breaks and Ferrari specialist service due (all were done by Ferrari before this one) before sale. Current figures are 6k deposit, balloon 40k, £964 pcm and when queried about options at the end with balloon he said he would happily put in writing he would buy the car back for 40k as he's confident it'll be worth more come 48 months?

Wife is looking to p/x the Tiguan 2018 we have vs. the GLE with 0 deposit almost a straight swap.

I'm tempted if we can get both for 1.2k pcm but now having second thoughts regarding the dealership etc.

How much does a Ferrari PPI cost and how does it work? Dealer sends car to Ferrari etc or I arrange it?

Thank you & sorry so many questions! New territory for me!

I assume the dealer would bring the car to the closest dealer for the PPI. Check if Ferrari will still warranty the car if it was serviced by an indie (if no, then tell the dealer it needs a service at Ferrari instead of the indie). I think Ferrari requires a check every time the warranty is extended on older cars.

Yep as far as I am aware, take it to the nearest dealer for a 190 point Ferrari pre-warranty check and if it passes then slap the warranty on. I have also heard they only warranty a car with main dealer history only, so if the last service is not yet done perhaps they can do it as part of the 190 point check as alot of the checks would cover the annual service checklist I would expect.

[garystoybox]

irdan87 said:

How much does a Ferrari PPI cost and how does it work? Dealer sends car to Ferrari etc or I arrange it?

Thank you & sorry so many questions! New territory for me!

Don’t know on the cost but I think it is the same 180 point check they apply to all the ‘approved’ main dealer cars. I had a non franchised dealer of high end cars in the north east send a F430 across to Ferrari main dealer a few years ago, with me to purchase subject to all being good. The list of issues (some very small and minor), one not, indicated a cost to bring to Ferrari approved standard @c7k. Decided not worth the hassle and stuck to main dealers since for the goodwill and warranty peace of mind. I’d be surprised if a Ferrari ppi and one years warranty would give any change out of £5k. Then there’s the cost to recitfy any issue that may be found? Can’t imagine the selling garage fancying this route much?

Re your comments on the car having new brakes, i’m a little surprised this has been necessary based on the mileage and the carbon set-up, unless the cars had a hard time. A friend of mind has a 2012 California on 33k and he’s still on the original pads. Maybe current/previous owners will be able to answer if this is the norm?

[garystoybox]

irdan87 said:

I will call Ferrari to check but he did say on the phone that there is no real benefit to having it continue to be serviced by Ferrari as they won't warranty it now it is 9 years old. Not sure how correct that is but I will call tomorrow.

Not correct, can have extensive warranty up to 12 years old and reduced cover up to 15 years old subject to check.

[murphyaj]

irdan87 said:

I will call Ferrari to check but he did say on the phone that there is no real benefit to having it continue to be serviced by Ferrari as they won't warranty it now it is 9 years old. Not sure how correct that is but I will call tomorrow.

The full Ferrari Power Warranty only goes up to 10 years according to their website, but last year they released an additional extended warranty. Quote from their website:

"The full factory warranty can be extended for a further two years and, from the vehicle’s 6th to 12th year, owners can stipulate the New Power warranty which provides cover on all major components."

"New Power15 extends even further Ferrari’s class-leading programme with the possibility of covering the vehicle’s main mechanical components, including the engine, gearbox, PTU, suspension and steering, from year 12 right up to year 15."

Link here: https://auto.ferrari.com/en_EN/news-events/news/fe...

irdan87 said:

Current figures are 6k deposit, balloon 40k, £964 pcm and when queried about options at the end with balloon he said he would happily put in writing he would buy the car back for 40k as he's confident it'll be worth more come 48 months?

I bet he did. Unless the market implodes spectacularly there's no way these cars will be changing hands for just £40k in 2 years time.

Edited by murphyaj on Thursday 20th September 17:21

[irdan87]

murphyaj said:

I bet he did. Unless the market implodes spectacularly there's no way these cars will be changing hands for just £40k in 2 years time.

Edited by murphyaj on Thursday 20th September 17:21

Thanks to everyone for there input. I'll call Ferrari tomorrow AM to find out about warranty and see if he is prepared to send it for a PPI and service there so I can take out a Ferrari warranty on the car. If not I'll walk straight away.

If he is, we will see what happens pending it comes back all fine if he does a deal at 1.3k pcm for both cars (approx 850 on cali & 450 on the GLE) we will have a deal.

Is it fair to expect the selling garage to cover the PPI or is it often a buyers prerogative?

Also regarding the buy back - although it'll be in writing I don't have to take him up on the offer but it's nice to know I won't be left in st street if the market did implode. Bit of peace of mind I suppose. In an ideal world I'll either keep the car and hope it begins to appreciate or sell in 4 years and get my deposit back with the GFV.

Nearly at the end of questions I promise ;-)

[Taaaaang]

I think you're crazy.

Buy a Cali from a Ferrari dealer and lease the GLE; there's some cracking deals on these at the moment as it's the end of the run.

[F355GTS]

murphyaj said:

2012 is when Ferrari introduced the mid-life refresh for the Cali. There were updates to pistons and exhaust, as well as a mild remap, which increased power by 30 bhp and torque by 14 lb/ft. They also took out 30kg from the car, and made some mild tuning changes to the steering and suspension. It dropped the 0-60 time by a tenth and added a few MPH to the top end. That's also when they introduced the optional Handling Speciale package.

As for whether you'd notice these differences I'm not sure. I've only just started investigating Calis with a view to a purchase next year, but I intend to drive a pre and post update car to compare them before making a decision. Some press reviews at the time indicated that the changes were worthwhile but not transformative. A quick parse of autotrader indicates that a 2012 car carries a premium of about £10k over a 2010 or 2011 model.

I owned both and tbh could not tell the difference. HS pack on the 30 made the car jittery on our poor roads, std car was imho better, definitely not worth a £10k premium

[murphyaj]

Worth pointing out that for £5k more than the car being discussed you can get a car of the same age and similar-ish mileage from a main dealer:

https://preowned.ferrari.com/en/gb/search/2010/fer...

[irdan87]

Taaaaang said:

I think you're crazy.

Buy a Cali from a Ferrari dealer and lease the GLE; there's some cracking deals on these at the moment as it's the end of the run.

Thats a very good shout actually. One sticking point is the VW Tiguan my wife has - although I could px that in towards a Ferrari and she can lease a GLA/E whichever she prefers for a smaller cost and brand new.

[BlackR8]

irdan87 said:

Taaaaang said:

I think you're crazy.

Buy a Cali from a Ferrari dealer and lease the GLE; there's some cracking deals on these at the moment as it's the end of the run.

Thats a very good shout actually. One sticking point is the VW Tiguan my wife has - although I could px that in towards a Ferrari and she can lease a GLA/E whichever she prefers for a smaller cost and brand new.

Having been in the market for my first exotic recently there are a few lessons I personally learnt:

- If it is your first exotic then a good warranty IMO is a must and will give you some peace of mind to help you enjoy the early period of ownership
- Buy from a specialist known for the specific marque or a main dealer, and question them about the prep they have done on the vehicle in question
- A PPI is highly recommended. I had two cars fail which on the surface to me seemed perfectly fine (these are cars with good service history, recent expenditure etc and in one of the cases it was being sold by a car dealer known for selling an array of high end cars)

And finally I think the biggest lesson I have learnt is that it is worth paying a few k more for a 'good' car than get what you may think on the surface is a bargain. The bills that these sorts of cars can rack you up are eye watering, and will quite quickly eat up any buffer you think you had because you bought cheap. Most of the 'cheap' cars I was drawn in by ended up being cheap for a reason, and in most cases those reasons cannot simply be undone easily (e.g. poor accident repair, questionable history, big impending bills etc). Of course there is the genuine bargain out there, but I personally didn't come across many.

[irdan87]

murphyaj said:

Worth pointing out that for £5k more than the car being discussed you can get a car of the same age and similar-ish mileage from a main dealer:

https://preowned.ferrari.com/en/gb/search/2010/fer...

Thanks for the link but I have my heart set on a white car again - I always have white! Lol

If the garage will continue the full Ferrari service history and it passes a PPI if he is willing to negotiate the price (thinking 75k) then it could be a goer I’ll just remind him of the Ferrari warranty it will need that isn’t included unless you buy approved.

[Roof down]

Many dealers simply won’t be interested in having what they consider to be an already in their own eyes good car further inspected and then told to pay for a manufacturer warranty, personally I don’t blame them.
This is certainly more so in the case of a limited low volume car, and although I considered a Cali , they are certainly not low volume and don’t appear to be selling, having said that I suspect not much is selling anyway.
I also think that the way the Cali T is dropping in value the earlier Calis are starting to look over priced, writing this reminds me why I changed my mind for now and decided to keep my 360, Hope you do get your deal though and please keep us informed.Mike

[irdan87]

Roof down said:

Many dealers simply won’t be interested in having what they consider to be an already in their own eyes good car further inspected and then told to pay for a manufacturer warranty, personally I don’t blame them.
This is certainly more so in the case of a limited low volume car, and although I considered a Cali , they are certainly not low volume and don’t appear to be selling, having said that I suspect not much is selling anyway.
I also think that the way the Cali T is dropping in value the earlier Calis are starting to look over priced, writing this reminds me why I changed my mind for now and decided to keep my 360, Hope you do get your deal though and please keep us informed.Mike

Thank you.

The warranty the car comes with is 3 months. If I bartered to have it extended for a year is it worth the paper its written on compared to Ferraris (circa 3k per annum) warranty?

Can I put into writing what I would like for the deal and if you think I'm being reasonable considering the above car sales, winter coming, market etc...

This is the deal I was offered - 6k deposit, 6000mls a year PCP, ballon of 40k, APR of a competitive 5.3% this is with Santander through the dealership. @ £964 pcm.

- Part Ex my wifes 2018 VW Tiguan Allspace (3k neg equity) & clear finance
- I'll still pay 6k deposit so technically 3k with the neg equity
- Car taken to Ferrari for service & PPI check (paid for by dealership)
- Car for sale at 80k - if reduced to 73k with the above takes payments to £883 pcm.

I'm basically asking for 10k off list price with a Ferrari instead of indy service. Suppose it depends how much he needs to sell.

Thoughts?

[murphyaj]

What is the consensus here on the Ferrari Power Warranty vs other providers? While considering making the jump to Ferrari ownership I've noted some negative comments about it.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...

In those threads various Ferrari owners describe the dealer warranty as "Not worth the paper it is written on.", "a joke" and "pointless".

Now they might be outliers, and I'm sure plenty of people have been very glad for their Ferrari warranty, but it shows that bad experiences are not unheard of, so it's not a given that it's the right choice. I have seen other threads where owners of various supercars are not renewing their dealer cover and opting for Warranty Direct instead.

Both the threads above and this one mention warranty direct:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...

The feedback seems to be pretty good. Anyone had a bad experience with them? The cover on an early Cali is about half the price from Warranty Direct, but the difference in premium wouldn't bother me, i'd just want the best cover.

[F355GTS]

OP have been to the dealer premises and seen/ driven the car?

[irdan87]

F355GTS said:

OP have been to the dealer premises and seen/ driven the car?

If you mean me (since I seem to have sabotaged OP's thread now - sorry!) then no. I was hoping to agree everything if car/PPI was perfect after agreeing price instead of a wasted journey/falling in love and over paying.

Anyway, the dealership have refused my offer. They were willing to go to a 1 year warranty FOC - stating as like the poster above, Ferrari warranty is similar to the one they offer which seems fairly accurate. But the service would be done by an indy specialist. I could then use Warranty Direct I suppose.

However, price couldn't be agreed he won't drop below 80k as it was originally listed at 85k and "had interest" so I'll leave it for now.

[MDL111]

re the warranty - I have never tried to find a different provider for my cars and so far have been happy with Ferrari. My gearbox failed twice and needed work and they covered that without even telling me the cost.

Depending on age, as pointed out above they cover less and less.
By and large the cars are reliable if you can ignore the occasional warning lights.

[Roof down]

I’ll bet the price will come down

[murphyaj]

The car has been on Autotrader since 19 May, it's come down in price several times:
2018-05-19 - £87495
2018-07-24 - £85995
2018-08-22 - £84995
2018-09-10 - £79995

The advertised milage has also gone up from 19k to 21.5k, but since the owner of the dealership says it's his car that's probably just because he's continuing to use it. It could be that he's just happy to keep it as his car with it advertised in his dealership until it sells, since it costs him nothing.

It's definitely at the cheaper end of 2010 Calis at the moment, so he might be reluctant to reduce it further, but if it's still there in November it might be worth another call.