F430 has the 'bubble' burst?

[av185]

Since when did any sales person, cars or otherwise, require any product knowledge?

Double glazing one week, cars the next.

As for Porsche and their expensive dealer premises, this reflects the continuing trend of greater market share at the expense of their 'competitors'. Stratstone Porsche and Ferrari are the most profitable brands by a country mile within the Pendragon group which also includes mainstream money haemorraging Evans Halshaw.

As for main dealer servicing v indies, there are good and bad in both sectors but try selling an in manufacturers warranty Porsche or Ferrari without MD service history and 99% of people wouldn't touch one with a barge pole for obvious reasons.

[jdmave]

I ve been looking since Aug 19 for the right 430 and came very close to a deal November 19 however also had a new daily on the horizon (A45s) which finally turned up in Jan 20.

All the 430s I looked at are still on the market or sale........couple the dealers have hinted a better deal could be had.......ironically the 1 that I liked the most the advertised price has risen by 4k....

Maybe go back in April and see if any better details can be had as known these have been sat around for 9 months

[dereksharpuk]

Now that the Spring/Summer is coming, I feel that F430 prices are starting to move up. Certainly offers for mine have been higher, but still not high enough. Big gap between what a dealer buys it for and what he sells it for. But with a shortage of 458s (the last naturally aspirated Ferrari) and of course F430s coupled with confidence returning to the market post Brexit, but interest rates still very low, I think any change will be upwards. Naturally that will apply to low mileage cars with full Ferrari service history. They are becoming fewer and fewer.

[jdmave]

2 of the cars on my shortlist were at main dealers however interestingly both being sold on behalf of customers and not part ex's..........

[Drclarke]

So in summary, those waiting for ’bubble to burst’ have missed the window of opportunity and they are on the way up again!

[rat rod]

jdmave said:

I ve been looking since Aug 19 for the right 430 and came very close to a deal November 19 however also had a new daily on the horizon (A45s) which finally turned up in Jan 20.

All the 430s I looked at are still on the market or sale........couple the dealers have hinted a better deal could be had.......ironically the 1 that I liked the most the advertised price has risen by 4k....

Maybe go back in April and see if any better details can be had as known these have been sat around for 9 months

I really think there's no one in ,you can ring the door bell as long and hard as you like but if there's no one in the house nobody's going to answer the door,the few buyers that are out there at the moment seem to be sitting on the fence like vultures ready for the great crash ! they may have a long wait unless the seller is a desperate Dan who needs money quickly, if it's the right mileage,colour and condition at a sensible price i think you need to get on with it regardless and not worry about what maybe. with the elections, christmas, brexit done (good or bad) ) and spring round the corner (i was at goodwood yesterday and the daffodils were out) ye the market is in a bad way but the buyers will get tired of waiting especially those with a empty toy cupboards on a sunny day, things certainly have changed since i bought my 430 from maranello's two years ago, they had three in stock at the weekend, sold the red one on monday not a problem as didn't want red the other two were black one at egham and the other at graypaul 's at nottingham,viewed the one in egham on wednesday and went to nottingham on thursday ,didn't get there till 6 o'clock it was wet and dark and the car was dirty as had been out on a demo at lunch time,had higher spec than the one in egham, lovely scud wheels, bigger music,a bit of carbon but didn't show up much against the black paintwork and ceramic brakes all for 5k more but didn't really want ceramics as i already have a track car and the enormous extra expense of replacing them when that time comes, phoned egham at 9 o'clock next day and was told the car in nottingham is sold,i think the guy who went for the demo must of had a tip off that there was someone else interested and made his mind up quicker, that lelft one which i bought suprisingly with quite a good discount even then,that's three 430's sold in less than a week ,don't think that would happen in todays market but apart from a spider which they had all winter they have not had a 430 for sale since saying they can not find good enough cars with full ferrari history that they can put there name to and put a official warranty on which brings me back to the right car whether it's sunny or snowing ,

[supersport]

^^^ This

Right car in right colour, mileage spec and price was available so I bought it. Only downside was it was October and the weather has been crap since.

Having said that, there is currently no other car for sale that I would buy. Some very close though and mainly down to colour and interior.

Get in buy it, you could be waiting years.

[jdmave]

Certainly looks like we've all been looking and test driven the same cars........, I'm happy to spend x amount on the right car......otherwise its only worth to me what i feel it is.....so if prices go up whilst i'm on the look then so be it.

Closest so far was a Black f430 Spider at main dealer Birmingham or a private sale down in Sussex of a Red F430 Coupe with a immaculate history, similar spec, lower miles for £10k less.

Coupe or spider.........last time i checked both are still up for sale.....

[rat rod]

Ferruccio said:

So many dealers for different brands have built these huge but, in my view, totally unnecessary mausoleums.
Why do I need to pay for a chrome and glass cathedral, with two “receptionists” and electric car lifts up to the second floor, to buy a car or drop it off for a service. And then the whole palaver that follows for either.
Keep it simple.
Keep the costs down.

I bought my 430 from maranello's only because they had the car i wanted and was priced not much more than the specialist's were asking, also giving a two year warranty instead of only three months, had a few niggles that were sorted quite quicky depending who you spoke to, just goes to show these large company's are only as good as the people working for them, i must admit to feeling more at home back in the day when maranello's was owned by the colonel, the bullet holes in the showroom glass thrown up by passing cars on the bypass , pink instead of red ferrari posters faded by the sun and trying not to trip up on the peeling showroom floor tiles , lots of charactor unlike the plate glass showrooms of today with there sometimes arrogant salesmen that unless you are wearing the latest designer clothing and watch sorry time piece they choose to ignore the fact that you are even there, i do realise that what was acceptable wouldn't work in todays market with a lot more competition and customers demanding more , went to see mike pullen at his carrera sport workshop recently ,it's like time stood still, fantastic so much history , not many of these places left now yet someone on the lamborghini ph forum who was obviously unaware of mikes talents wouldn't leave his car there preferring corporate excess to skill, it takes all sorts,

[rat rod]

jdmave said:

Certainly looks like we've all been looking and test driven the same cars........, I'm happy to spend x amount on the right car......otherwise its only worth to me what i feel it is.....so if prices go up whilst i'm on the look then so be it.

Closest so far was a Black f430 Spider at main dealer Birmingham or a private sale down in Sussex of a Red F430 Coupe with a immaculate history, similar spec, lower miles for £10k less.

Coupe or spider.........last time i checked both are still up for sale.....

Talking about sussex have you seen the grey 430 at aren cars at pulborough ,43,000 miles but having had in excess of 12k spent at maranello's on the last service on all the niggly things being doneit belongs to the owner of the garage for his own use direct from maranello's who were retailing it even with that mileage,has been for sale for 2 years now but has come down from 85k to 69k ,i should think they are on a loss now, it is mint condition with sports seats,i tried to buy it before i bought the one i got from maranello's but we could not get together on figures on my gallardo, perhaps wrong colour and to many miles for you but he must be up for a offer by now,

[rat rod]

jdmave said:

Certainly looks like we've all been looking and test driven the same cars........, I'm happy to spend x amount on the right car......otherwise its only worth to me what i feel it is.....so if prices go up whilst i'm on the look then so be it.

Closest so far was a Black f430 Spider at main dealer Birmingham or a private sale down in Sussex of a Red F430 Coupe with a immaculate history, similar spec, lower miles for £10k less.

Coupe or spider.........last time i checked both are still up for sale.....

I don't think prices will go up infact average cars will continue to drop but once this winter back log of 430's and other models clear probably by the spring ,the fresh newly advertised cars will stabilise with less cars and more demand and better weather, also people who don't need the money and not in a hurry wait for the spring to advertise there cars as they can hang on for a better price,best time is now while there are so many unsold cars ,you buy a convertible when the frost is on the ground not the sun on your face ,metaphorically speaking , what will affect 430 prices big time is that if r.h.d 458's with no stories to them fall to a 100k or less but i don't think that's going to happen any time soon,

[MDL111]

bubble might not have burst yet, but values increasing - that sounds like cloud cuckoo land to me. Good luck

[Gibbo205]

rat rod said:

I don't think prices will go up infact average cars will continue to drop but once this winter back log of 430's and other models clear probably by the spring ,the fresh newly advertised cars will stabilise with less cars and more demand and better weather, also people who don't need the money and not in a hurry wait for the spring to advertise there cars as they can hang on for a better price,best time is now while there are so many unsold cars ,you buy a convertible when the frost is on the ground not the sun on your face ,metaphorically speaking , what will affect 430 prices big time is that if r.h.d 458's with no stories to them fall to a 100k or less but i don't think that's going to happen any time soon,

I would say the issue for the F430 is that the real purist want the manual version and thus their values have gone up and will no doubt continue to go up.

You can already get a 458 for 100k, but it either has a story, close to 100k miles or is LHD.

I feel the issue with the 430 F1 is, the gearbox is not great, yes you can learn its quibbles and drive around them just like a BMW SMG car, but a lot of prospective owners want a car that just works and drives how an auto should, the 430 F1 therefor is not for everyone.

I always lusted for a F430 but coming from an SVR I felt it was a side step (slower) and as I'd be doing daily duties the F1 box was not for me, this coming from a previous M3 CSL owner.

As such I went for the next Ferrari, the 458 simply because for the 458 is a far better put together car, more reliable, a gearbox that actually works and most important of all is still NA, and to me an even superior NA motor, 570HP and 9000rpm is the pinnacle of Ferrari NA V8 motors, only beaten by the Speciale.

I'd not be surprised if low mileage, later year 458's start to hold in value or even marginally go up a little because the lines of the car are totally beautiful and the sound is glorious and it feels truly special to drive but it can also do daily duty quite well.

[cgt2]

rat rod said:

I bought my 430 from maranello's only because they had the car i wanted and was priced not much more than the specialist's were asking, also giving a two year warranty instead of only three months, had a few niggles that were sorted quite quicky depending who you spoke to, just goes to show these large company's are only as good as the people working for them, i must admit to feeling more at home back in the day when maranello's was owned by the colonel, the bullet holes in the showroom glass thrown up by passing cars on the bypass , pink instead of red ferrari posters faded by the sun and trying not to trip up on the peeling showroom floor tiles , lots of charactor unlike the plate glass showrooms of today with there sometimes arrogant salesmen that unless you are wearing the latest designer clothing and watch sorry time piece they choose to ignore the fact that you are even there, i do realise that what was acceptable wouldn't work in todays market with a lot more competition and customers demanding more , went to see mike pullen at his carrera sport workshop recently ,it's like time stood still, fantastic so much history , not many of these places left now yet someone on the lamborghini ph forum who was obviously unaware of mikes talents wouldn't leave his car there preferring corporate excess to skill, it takes all sorts,

Reminds me of the first time I went in as a youngster and Shaun Bealey showed me round a Testarossa. The place had a lot of charm and character then. I think Roger Konig was around too then.

[cgt2]

I had a manual and could see no discernible improvement over two previous 360's. There is a reason not many were sold as manuals new despite a near equal split just a few years earlier on the 360, the F1 by that point was pretty good, certainly a long way from the early 355 F1 that stranded me in the South of France..

As so many cars have sat round for over a year now, including a few manuals, the trend appears away from prices going up, certainly on relatively mass produced V8 Ferraris. I think the F12 looks very good value at the moment. If there is price parity with the masses of 458s out there it would be the sublime F12 all day long for me.

[jdmave]

Interesting reading especially around the 458 s as have had a couple suggested whilst on my hunt......both at main dealers....yes mileage slightly on high side however very close to the 100k mark with full warranty.....

[Gibbo205]

jdmave said:

Interesting reading especially around the 458 s as have had a couple suggested whilst on my hunt......both at main dealers....yes mileage slightly on high side however very close to the 100k mark with full warranty.....

You should drive the cars your interested in.

I went Ferrari hunting because of the F430 for me it was always my favourite looking Ferrari and I particular loved the fact that the Spyder version you could still see the engine, something that was lost on the 458, but my hunt was for a coupe.

As I drive mine a lot (not much in Winter mind) for me the 458 was simply a far better drive, it has a dual personality, put it in wet mode and auto and you can cruise along pretty quietly and the gearbox is smooth and smart and the suspension extremely compliant. Flick it to race mode and manual gears and the car takes on a whole new personality.

I am still torn as to if I prefer 458 or 430 looks wise, I'd say 430 Spider trumps 458 Spider, but the 458 Coupe is just a thing of beauty and I've had a few comments from public saying its most beautiful Ferrari they had ever seen, am not sure I agree but I think the lines and curves of the 458 is desired by many as its such a timeless and very clean design, very much like the F12, funnily enough both of which were the last cars designed by Pininfarina.

[WCZ]

Gibbo205 said:

I would say the issue for the F430 is that the real purist want the manual version and thus their values have gone up and will no doubt continue to go up.

You can already get a 458 for 100k, but it either has a story, close to 100k miles or is LHD.

I feel the issue with the 430 F1 is, the gearbox is not great, yes you can learn its quibbles and drive around them just like a BMW SMG car, but a lot of prospective owners want a car that just works and drives how an auto should, the 430 F1 therefor is not for everyone.

I always lusted for a F430 but coming from an SVR I felt it was a side step (slower) and as I'd be doing daily duties the F1 box was not for me, this coming from a previous M3 CSL owner.

As such I went for the next Ferrari, the 458 simply because for the 458 is a far better put together car, more reliable, a gearbox that actually works and most important of all is still NA, and to me an even superior NA motor, 570HP and 9000rpm is the pinnacle of Ferrari NA V8 motors, only beaten by the Speciale.

I'd not be surprised if low mileage, later year 458's start to hold in value or even marginally go up a little because the lines of the car are totally beautiful and the sound is glorious and it feels truly special to drive but it can also do daily duty quite well.

good post

I think 458 values are going nowhere. it's basically the perfect car and is all you need.

plus plenty of people who wanted them growing up are starting to be able to afford them

[MDL111]

Gibbo205 said:

jdmave said:

Interesting reading especially around the 458 s as have had a couple suggested whilst on my hunt......both at main dealers....yes mileage slightly on high side however very close to the 100k mark with full warranty.....

You should drive the cars your interested in.

I went Ferrari hunting because of the F430 for me it was always my favourite looking Ferrari and I particular loved the fact that the Spyder version you could still see the engine, something that was lost on the 458, but my hunt was for a coupe.

As I drive mine a lot (not much in Winter mind) for me the 458 was simply a far better drive, it has a dual personality, put it in wet mode and auto and you can cruise along pretty quietly and the gearbox is smooth and smart and the suspension extremely compliant. Flick it to race mode and manual gears and the car takes on a whole new personality.

I am still torn as to if I prefer 458 or 430 looks wise, I'd say 430 Spider trumps 458 Spider, but the 458 Coupe is just a thing of beauty and I've had a few comments from public saying its most beautiful Ferrari they had ever seen, am not sure I agree but I think the lines and curves of the 458 is desired by many as its such a timeless and very clean design, very much like the F12, funnily enough both of which were the last cars designed by Pininfarina.

I agree the 458 is quite pretty for a modern Ferrari
The 430 on the other hand is rather ugly imo, probably my least favourite V8 design over the last 2 decades / possibly ever only beaten by the Mondial top of my head [they are relatively good value for money though and a good driving experience/last kind of analogue Ferrari]

[rat rod]

cgt2 said:

Reminds me of the first time I went in as a youngster and Shaun Bealey showed me round a Testarossa. The place had a lot of charm and character then. I think Roger Konig was around too then.

sorry to correct you ,it was mark konig ,he used to race for ferrari factory, people would not only buy a ferrari but especially buy one from him,having had several 308's and a couple of 365's he asked me have i ever driven a dayton which i hadn't so he let me drive one that was in stock at £19,500 ouch ! one owner who was the chairman of the f.o.c at the time,it was a quiet saterday morning when they only opened to midday,he retired to the i.o.w when inchcape bought maranello's taking his f40 and glass gtb with him, wow you must be as old as me to remember that cgt2,