Is a Portofino for under £100k the most sensible decision?

[murphyaj]

Tom-M said:

As a total guesstimate you're probably looking at close to £10k per year alone in depreciation. Don't forget there is a dealer spread as well, so you're probably £10k down just driving the car away.

Those depreciation figures are very steep based on my data.
For years now I have been taking snapshots of data scraped from Autotrader for various manufacturers, including Ferrari. I looked at the closest equivalent car for which there would be comparable data; the California T, looking at a 3 year period running up to last year.

On various days in Nov 2019 there were between 24 and 31 California Ts on sale for model years 2014 to 2015, so about 5 years old at the time, just like an entry level Portofino would be now. The median price was around £105000, the mean of the cheapest 3 cars (which represents the entry to the market) was around £92000

By Nov 2022 there were 28 or 29 2014/15 California Ts on sale. So the same model and year of car, now 3 years older. The median price was around £98000, the mean of the cheapest 2 cars was around £80000

So in 3 years asking prices dropped either £7000 or £12000 depending on whether you look at the median or bottom of the market. Obviously sale prices will be different, but the asking prices should be representative in terms of market movement. In both cases it's well short of £30k over three years.

(why didn't I use data from 2023? Because Autotrader changed their website in April so scraping it is harder now, and I haven't had the time to update my code. Plus going back to then means Cali T prices were more representative of Portfolio prices now)

[swanseaboydan]

I popped into Swindon Ferrari today and they had a few portofino m s in there. Personally I can’t see the point in the M versions as they are meant to be cruiser / tourer cars.
Also, why so many red Portofinos out there ? Is it just me? I don’t think they suit red that well. Don’t shoot me, there just seem to be a Lot of them .

[andyr]

The M has an 8 speed box. A worthwhile upgrade in my view

[willy wombat]

andyr said:

The M has an 8 speed box. A worthwhile upgrade in my view

Doesn’t make as good a noise as the non M due to the emissions paraphernalia (IMHO of course).

[Honeywell]

Boleros said:

That car was £138,830 in May this year. I know because I got a finance quote on it!

Thanks for that data. I'm trying to get a feel for this market as I've not had a Portofino on my radar until the last couple of weeks.

I dodged buying a new Lotus Emira which would have been £75k on the road which one year and 3000 miles on WBAC are now offering £48k for. Losing £27k in under a year would have taken a lot of enjoyment out the experience.

I'd like to step into the market once the correction has fully occurred.

[Pflanzgarten]

Honeywell said:

Boleros said:

That car was £138,830 in May this year. I know because I got a finance quote on it!

Thanks for that data. I'm trying to get a feel for this market as I've not had a Portofino on my radar until the last couple of weeks.

I dodged buying a new Lotus Emira which would have been £75k on the road which one year and 3000 miles on WBAC are now offering £48k for. Losing £27k in under a year would have taken a lot of enjoyment out the experience.

I'd like to step into the market once the correction has fully occurred.

I wouldn't get too fixated on such data, no one is buying and Emira for £48k and no one is selling one for that either. Well, I mean they could if they were daft enough to put it into WBAC but in reality it isn't happening.

Try putting a Portofino into WBAC and see what you get.

[Boleros]

I’d echo the above. WBAC doesn’t really cater for more exotic cars, my F430 gets a daft number when I stick it in.

At 120k I think that Portofino is good value, I didn’t go for it in the end because I didn’t like the numbers and also because I wouldn’t use the car in the way that I use my F430.

[Honeywell]

I think the WBAC price is a good enough proxy for what a dealer would offer for an Emira. Sure a private sale would expect more. I think that a lot of premium car buyers will be rolling out of lease deals in the next six months and not renewing as finance costs have doubled compared to three years ago. Maybe Ferrari buyers are less impacted (I wouldn't be using any finance for example) but I am still sceptical that we have reached the bottom yet.

The number of 911's hitting the market and not shifting is very evident.

[Pflanzgarten]

Honeywell said:

I think the WBAC price is a good enough proxy for what a dealer would offer for an Emira.

I'm not here to talk up prices of a Lotus but it really isn't. It's an example of an algorithm programmed to weed out cars they won't be able to auction quickly in a volatile market with a fairly certain estimated price.

I'm currently negotiating on a 911 GT3 RS. For fun I put the reg into WBAC and my valuation is £13,645.

[Plainview23]

Pflanzgarten said:

I'm not here to talk up prices of a Lotus but it really isn't. It's an example of an algorithm programmed to weed out cars they won't be able to auction quickly in a volatile market with a fairly certain estimated price.

I'm currently negotiating on a 911 GT3 RS. For fun I put the reg into WBAC and my valuation is £13,645.

I'll give you £15k

[Tom-M]

murphyaj said:

So in 3 years asking prices dropped either £7000 or £12000 depending on whether you look at the median or bottom of the market. Obviously sale prices will be different, but the asking prices should be representative in terms of market movement. In both cases it's well short of £30k over three years.

It sounds like you have some good data to work with but have you checked out the thread I linked previously ? There are 3/4 worked examples from current supercar owners discussing the finances, I think over the time period you've mentioned ( 2019-2022 ).

Admittedly none of them are a Cali/t or a Portinfino/M - but similar value cars - I would be amazed if any owners have managed to own one over any 3 year period and only lost £7-£12k.

Would love to be proved wrong!

[swanseaboydan]

I bought a Cali t in lockdown for 88k - drive it for 6 months and sold it to a trader for 89k - was pleased with that - spent 1800 on a warranty but it was nice to have a cool car for 6 months for cheap

[Honeywell]

Ooof!

That looks splendid. £22,000 paint option?


https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312225...

[Pflanzgarten]

Honeywell said:

Ooof!

That looks splendid. £22,000 paint option?


https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312225...

He’s had that for sale for months and was as low as £110k on his last advert.

[swanseaboydan]

I think 110k will buy a nice one in jan / feb

[Boleros]

Pflanzgarten said:

He’s had that for sale for months and was as low as £110k on his last advert.

Nice car though, if that was at a dealer I'd be very tempted.

[swanseaboydan]

Is that because you need finance or do you only feel comfortable buying from a dealer ? Just interested.

[Boleros]

Bit of both really although I'm quite sure I'd be able to sort the finances out personally. Only downside is I'd have to sell the F430 first and that could take forever. I should probably sell it anyway and then wait for the right car to come along.

[willy wombat]

My Portofino is in Rosso Portofino and it is a beautiful colour. However my interest was piqued by the suggestion that it is a £22k option so I dug out my sales invoice as I was pretty sure I didn’t pay that, and I didn’t. £7,104 including VAT was what I paid for Rosso Portofino. My car is virtually identical vintage (delivered new to me 1/1/20 just in time for Covid). I have quite a few more options (carbon, wheels, car play etc). I also have passenger display which is the one option I regret paying for. Waste of money.
I think they are great value at the moment.

[Honeywell]

Pflanzgarten said:

He’s had that for sale for months and was as low as £110k on his last advert.

Thank you.

I need to get a non-IOS device so I can have the Chrome Autotrader plugin recording pricing.