Buying Ferraris from Traders

[xxx2]

Are Traders required to have Consumer Credit Licences ? Are they regulated by any Trade Associations ?
Where should complaints against them be directed ?
Anyone had problems getting refundable deposits refunded ?

[NEFOC]

Hi mate,
Watching your posts over a few days you are clearly nervous about purchasing a car at the moment. Have you bought one before? The brand is irrelevant.

My advice. Find a car you like. Get it checked out by a third party. Buy it.

If you feel it is going to sell before you have chance to view it, then give a deposit, but only if you are buying. Keep it simple.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I expect very little from the dealer other than finding the car. I see very little value in 'additional services' from them, e.g. Finance or warrenties etc. get them yourself if you want them.

I know Tim Walker, Nick/Jim/Ben Cartwright, Foskers etc very well and know they select very good cars, but that is not to say you can't get a great car from others. Just get an independent you trust to check it for you. It's worth the cost.

Buy the car and enjoy.

If its's older it will have some niggles. Fix them and carry on.

Do you have a car you fancy? That may be he best way to approach it. Th forum can then help you find one.

[fyfe]

NEFOC said:

Hi mate,
Do you have a car you fancy? That may be he best way to approach it. Th forum can then help you find one.

That's some good advice. Ask an open question to the forum rather than seeking collective experience with an individual dealer. As noted, the forum doesn't do name and shame so the absence of any negative comments can't be taken as an indicator of a dealers quality. The absence of positive comments could perhaps be representative of something but that's far from ironclad.

The forum would be more able to help if you told us what you're looking for with as much info as possible - no need to be cagey.

I can't think of a reason to rush such a purchase and your posts over the last few days do seem to suggest you are not comfortable with the pace at which things are moving. My advice would be to pause, seek honest opinions and then get back into the fray.

Edit:
Having reviewed some of your other threads I think you may also be better off posting in the SP&L section with regards to any deposit you may have put down on something - refundable or otherwise. Be nice, be open and the posters there will be more inclined to help.

Edited by fyfe on Tuesday 4th March 11:54

[xxx2]

Thank you for your comments and advice. I saw a car advertised that I was interested in and contacted the dealer/ trader. I was told by the trader to contact people I know working at major Dealers to obtain assurances and references before entering into negotiations . This I did and I was advised to get a full inspection carried out by the major Dealer at my expense. I contacted the trader and said I want to have an inspection carried out on the car, at my expense. The trader then said to me that I would be wasting my money as the car required a service and he would arrange for that to be done at the major Dealer, at his expense. He said he would authorise the dealer to provide me with all the findings on the car. In order to arrange this the trader then said he would require a deposit to "hold" the car . I asked If the deposit was refundable in the event that I did not to buy the car, for whatever reason. I was told that the deposit was fully refundable I'd I did not to buy the car. I checked with my contacts at the main Dealer who had provided references on this trader and they said it was ok to proceed. I paid the deposit, the car was serviced and I also had a private inspection carried out by a Professional Valeting company.
There were negative issues highlighted in the service and the inspection which convinced me not to buy the car. I informed the trader that I would not be buying the car and would like my deposit refunded in full. The trader is refusing to refund my deposit as he says there is nothing wrong with the car and has now incurred costs. At no time did I agree to buy the car or authorise any work on the car . I have now been forced to take instructions from my solicitors to recover the deposit.

[NEFOC]

xxx2 said:

Thank you for your comments and advice. I saw a car advertised that I was interested in and contacted the dealer/ trader. I was told by the trader to contact people I know working at major Dealers to obtain assurances and references before entering into negotiations . This I did and I was advised to get a full inspection carried out by the major Dealer at my expense. I contacted the trader and said I want to have an inspection carried out on the car, at my expense. The trader then said to me that I would be wasting my money as the car required a service and he would arrange for that to be done at the major Dealer, at his expense. He said he would authorise the dealer to provide me with all the findings on the car. In order to arrange this the trader then said he would require a deposit to "hold" the car . I asked If the deposit was refundable in the event that I did not to buy the car, for whatever reason. I was told that the deposit was fully refundable I'd I did not to buy the car. I checked with my contacts at the main Dealer who had provided references on this trader and they said it was ok to proceed. I paid the deposit, the car was serviced and I also had a private inspection carried out by a Professional Valeting company.
There were negative issues highlighted in the service and the inspection which convinced me not to buy the car. I informed the trader that I would not be buying the car and would like my deposit refunded in full. The trader is refusing to refund my deposit as he says there is nothing wrong with the car and has now incurred costs. At no time did I agree to buy the car or authorise any work on the car . I have now been forced to take instructions from my solicitors to recover the deposit.

I see. You are past the inspection point. As you had an independent check anyway you should have just done that before triggering the deposit and service.

I can understand both views. Works complete at a cost to the dealer and no sale, so he is unhappy. If it was SOR the dealer is out of pocket as not his car.

You clearly don't like the report so decide not to buy. That's why it's best to do the inspection prior to deposit.

If the issues identified are not serious, why not get the dealer to resolve and enjoy the car you are after? Or if it is truly a bad car, you must go through the due process I suspect. Not fun. Sorry to hear it.

[xxx2]

NEFOC said:

I see. You are past the inspection point. As you had an independent check anyway you should have just done that before triggering the deposit and service.

I can understand both views. Works complete at a cost to the dealer and no sale, so he is unhappy. If it was SOR the dealer is out of pocket as not his car.

You clearly don't like the report so decide not to buy. That's why it's best to do the inspection prior to deposit.

If the issues identified are not serious, why not get the dealer to resolve and enjoy the car you are after? Or if it is truly a bad car, you must go through the due process I suspect. Not fun. Sorry to hear it.

Thanks v.much. Very helpful. I did not request any work to be carried out on the car. The trader did and I think it was done for a reason. I am now left with problem of recovering my deposit. Always a risk , as the dealer may not have any cash in the bank. I totally agree with you, never pay a deposit before having an inspection carried out. If there is ever any problem with a trader not wanting to proceed this way, just walk away.

[andymc]

Are you sure you can get the deposit back? any legal bods?

[Stryke]

Feel for you mate. Will try and help you as much as possible, too many off these independents try it on to make a sale and get a deposit, show's how small minded some of these traders are.

How was the deposit paid? credit or debit card?

[xxx2]

Stryke said:

Feel for you mate. Will try and help you as much as possible, too many off these independents try it on to make a sale and get a deposit, show's how small minded some of these traders are.

How was the deposit paid? credit or debit card?

Thanks. Deposit was paid by Credit Card on understanding that it was fully refundable if I decided not to buy the car. Confirmed in writing.

[xxx2]

andymc said:

Are you sure you can get the deposit back? any legal bods?

I will get the deposit back. I have an in house legal dept that specialises in these types of cases.

Not all customers that lucky, people need to be aware that this type of thing can happen.

Very.Very.Stupid. behaviour by the trader.

[hman]

credit card company might be able to help - has worked for me in other financial disputes.

[Jules360]

xxx2 said:

I will get the deposit back. I have an in house legal dept that specialises in these types of cases.

Not all customers that lucky, people need to be aware that this type of thing can happen.

Very.Very.Stupid. behaviour by the trader.

If that"s the case why on earth are you posting multiple identical questions over several threads ?

I wish you all the best getting your cash back. Can I ask what was wrong with the car ?

[xxx2]

Jules360 said:

If that"s the case why on earth are you posting multiple identical questions over several threads ?

I wish you all the best getting your cash back. Can I ask what was wrong with the car ?

The questions are not identical. I am trying to find out if anyone else who might post in different forums have experienced similar experiences, particularly the non refunding of deposits, as myself.

I obviously cannot now discuss specifics regarding the car for legal reasons. I will let you know when I have got my deposit back.

[SirMark]

The fact you have paid by credit card they now take the same risks and lability as the dealer your best call would be to go for the credit card company.


I would google the acts that your credit card cover, not widely know.

Hope this helps and good luck

[SirMark]

This works even if you have only paid £1 on the credit card and £59,999 on a debit card

I will find some additional information for you

[SirMark]

Rule 75



This should help


Here's some extra info


Section 75 is one of the strongest weapons in the UK consumers' arsenal.

This tiny piece of legislation, makes credit card providers equally liable (with retailers) for ensuring that people get what they paid for.

Over the years, it has saved Britons millions of pounds they would have otherwise lost to unscrupulous retailers or shopping disasters.

In other words, it's well worth knowing about.

Read about how the process works to get the full picture.

Or click through to skip to:

More information on items bought from abroad
What's so great about part payment rules and cover for losses.
And what's not so great like when cover fails or people aren't covered because they can't get a credit card.
The rules

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 is a piece of legislation that means that lenders must be licensed by the Office of Fair Trading.

Section 75 of the act says that license means that lenders are responsible for the credit agreements between traders and individuals.

In essence, it's a fall back: when a cardholder has a claim under legislation like the Sale of Goods Act, section 75 means the card provider has to help.

That means cardholders can claim on items that are:

Not delivered example: you book a flight but the airline goes bust.
Faulty example: you buy a TV but it doesn't work.
Damaged example: you buy plates online and they arrive smashed.
Cardholders have a right to be refunded if they make a claim within 6 years (5 in Scotland) and the claim is dependent on the bank, not just the company.

Only purchases which cost between £100 and £30,000 are covered by Section 75. However:

Part payments are covered, more here.
Store cards and hire purchase agreement items are also covered.
Other credit agreements - such as a car loan through a dealer - are covered too, though in this case the contracts will need to say something like: 'This agreement is covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974'.
What's more, all kinds of items are covered. As long as a breach of contract has occurred and the prerequisites for cover are met (see below for more on this) electrical items, a sofa or airline tickets will all be covered.
Making a claim

So that's how it works in theory. What about in practice?

To get money back under Section 75 cardholders first need to call the credit card provider (so: American Express, Barclaycard, RBS...) and tell them they intend to make a claim.

The law is very clear: credit card providers and retailers are equally liable for the delivery of goods.

However, the credit card provider will usually ask that the consumer make all possible efforts to first resolve the issue with the retailer.

Although, under law, they're not required to do this, to move the process along it's worth including in any claim the steps that have been taken to resolve the issue so far.

If the supplier has gone bust - a classic case for Section 75 - that should be pretty simple.

Similarly, although this protection is law it doesn't mean that consumers haven't had to be persistent to get it.

According to a recent study, an astounding 59% of credit card providers gave false or misleading information to customers calling to make a section 75 claim.

We've seen many consumers who were told on the phone that they couldn't get a refund succeed after correspondence through a clear, concise letter or email.

Persistence is key.

More on the cover available

In addition to the basic rules set out above, section 75 legislation has been refined over the years by legal precedents.

In effect, cardholders may be entitled to much more than the bare bones the legislation suggests.

Purchased from abroad

In 2007, a ruling by the House of Lords defined that Section 75 has no territorial limitations and, therefore, cardholders who use their credit cards to make purchases abroad are protected in the same way as in the UK.

They concluded that there was nothing in Section 75 that indicated there was any territorial limitation on the obligation of the credit card companies.

The new ruling now means that as well as in the UK, purchases made on a credit card may also be covered under Section 75 when:

goods or services are purchased from a foreign supplier whilst the cardholder is abroad
goods or services are purchased from a foreign supplier for delivery to the UK
goods or services are purchased from a foreign supplier or agent who is temporarily in the UK
Partial payments

For example, you pay for a dress: £100 by card and £500 in cash. You're covered for the full £600.

Additionally, even if you only pay £10 on a credit card, as long as the full purchase price is more than £100, cover will still apply for the full amount.

Another example of this is paying just the deposit for a holiday on a credit card, as long as the full holiday price is over £100.

The Financial Ombudsman Service cites a claim that it upheld in the customer's favour where a man used his card to pay a deposit for a package deal from a travel agent. Part of this package consisted of flights that the agent had arranged.

[xxx2]

SirMark said:

Rule 75



This should help


Here's some extra info


Section 75 is one of the strongest weapons in the UK consumers' arsenal.

This tiny piece of legislation, makes credit card providers equally liable (with retailers) for ensuring that people get what they paid for.

Over the years, it has saved Britons millions of pounds they would have otherwise lost to unscrupulous retailers or shopping disasters.

In other words, it's well worth knowing about.

Read about how the process works to get the full picture.

Or click through to skip to:

More information on items bought from abroad
What's so great about part payment rules and cover for losses.
And what's not so great like when cover fails or people aren't covered because they can't get a credit card.
The rules

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 is a piece of legislation that means that lenders must be licensed by the Office of Fair Trading.

Section 75 of the act says that license means that lenders are responsible for the credit agreements between traders and individuals.

In essence, it's a fall back: when a cardholder has a claim under legislation like the Sale of Goods Act, section 75 means the card provider has to help.

That means cardholders can claim on items that are:

Not delivered example: you book a flight but the airline goes bust.
Faulty example: you buy a TV but it doesn't work.
Damaged example: you buy plates online and they arrive smashed.
Cardholders have a right to be refunded if they make a claim within 6 years (5 in Scotland) and the claim is dependent on the bank, not just the company.

Only purchases which cost between £100 and £30,000 are covered by Section 75. However:

Part payments are covered, more here.
Store cards and hire purchase agreement items are also covered.
Other credit agreements - such as a car loan through a dealer - are covered too, though in this case the contracts will need to say something like: 'This agreement is covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974'.
What's more, all kinds of items are covered. As long as a breach of contract has occurred and the prerequisites for cover are met (see below for more on this) electrical items, a sofa or airline tickets will all be covered.
Making a claim

So that's how it works in theory. What about in practice?

To get money back under Section 75 cardholders first need to call the credit card provider (so: American Express, Barclaycard, RBS...) and tell them they intend to make a claim.

The law is very clear: credit card providers and retailers are equally liable for the delivery of goods.

However, the credit card provider will usually ask that the consumer make all possible efforts to first resolve the issue with the retailer.

Although, under law, they're not required to do this, to move the process along it's worth including in any claim the steps that have been taken to resolve the issue so far.

If the supplier has gone bust - a classic case for Section 75 - that should be pretty simple.

Similarly, although this protection is law it doesn't mean that consumers haven't had to be persistent to get it.

According to a recent study, an astounding 59% of credit card providers gave false or misleading information to customers calling to make a section 75 claim.

We've seen many consumers who were told on the phone that they couldn't get a refund succeed after correspondence through a clear, concise letter or email.

Persistence is key.

More on the cover available

In addition to the basic rules set out above, section 75 legislation has been refined over the years by legal precedents.

In effect, cardholders may be entitled to much more than the bare bones the legislation suggests.

Purchased from abroad

In 2007, a ruling by the House of Lords defined that Section 75 has no territorial limitations and, therefore, cardholders who use their credit cards to make purchases abroad are protected in the same way as in the UK.

They concluded that there was nothing in Section 75 that indicated there was any territorial limitation on the obligation of the credit card companies.

The new ruling now means that as well as in the UK, purchases made on a credit card may also be covered under Section 75 when:

goods or services are purchased from a foreign supplier whilst the cardholder is abroad
goods or services are purchased from a foreign supplier for delivery to the UK
goods or services are purchased from a foreign supplier or agent who is temporarily in the UK
Partial payments

For example, you pay for a dress: £100 by card and £500 in cash. You're covered for the full £600.

Additionally, even if you only pay £10 on a credit card, as long as the full purchase price is more than £100, cover will still apply for the full amount.

Another example of this is paying just the deposit for a holiday on a credit card, as long as the full holiday price is over £100.

The Financial Ombudsman Service cites a claim that it upheld in the customer's favour where a man used his card to pay a deposit for a package deal from a travel agent. Part of this package consisted of flights that the agent had arranged.

Thanks very much. Very useful , not only for me but for many others on here I am sure.

[SirMark]

No worries, I wish you good luck

[Stryke]

xxx2 said:

Thanks. Deposit was paid by Credit Card on understanding that it was fully refundable if I decided not to buy the car. Confirmed in writing.

Ok, that is great news. Forget the dealer and forget spending more money on solicitors. Contact your credit card company tomorrow morning and dispute the charges. You have the proof/evidence and that will be accepted by your card company. They will deal with the rest.

[xxx2]

Stryke said:

Ok, that is great news. Forget the dealer and forget spending more money on solicitors. Contact your credit card company tomorrow morning and dispute the charges. You have the proof/evidence and that will be accepted by your card company. They will deal with the rest.

Thanks.