550 Maranello article - they'll be Β£200k before you know it!

550 Maranello article - they'll be Β£200k before you know it!

Author
Discussion

ooid

1,561 posts

45 months

Thursday 8th August
quotequote all
Clean Air-cooled porks are nearly twice value of a clean 997.2 (2010) in Italy. How do I know? Just spent the last weekend helping my friend to inspect some cars near Milan.

Maranello is a beauty, I would totally prefer over any 911 except 993 turbo.

WCZ

7,007 posts

139 months

Thursday 8th August
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PompeyReece said:
If I was in the market for a 2nd hand supercar, I'd certainly be waiting until after the end of October.
this

Grantstown

151 posts

32 months

Thursday 8th August
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Thank you for the responses.

I think the message is that exercising restraint at this stage may pay off. I'll keep an eye on the market.

The prospect of forking out 5K to re-trim a dash would be irritating, so this is very good advice. I thought it was just a cohort of early cars that had a dodgy glue, which would melt if the car was left out in the sun, but I take your point that there is no photo of the car's dash and therefore it would need to be confirmed that there's no outstanding issue.

Mogul

2,386 posts

168 months

Thursday 8th August
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The ‘wrong glue’ is a bit of a misnomer IMO.

The semi-aniline hides used in these cars are exquisite but not optimised for any serious exposure to UV and the associated heat.

This is the real greenhouse effect and it is not simply the leather coming unstuck but an overall shrinkage and while in theory if the leather was fused to the rigid substructure it would be impossible for it to move, it would certainly create some tension and it’s hard to imagine that it would look as good as new indefinitely if exposed to serious UV over time which also ages exposed rubber seals and this is the key difference between an honest car that may have been detailed to look its best with a pampered car that will have spent the vast majority of its life in a garage and could look ‘as new’ even with a reasonable mileage under its belt.

P.s. the early 550 cars have Connolly hides but as they went bust around that time, the factory switched over to an Italian firm: Poltrona Frau.

Both are extremely high quality but susceptible to shrinkage.

The car linked above looks amazing and if you can you should but my assessment of where things are are that there is a greater risk of losing 25% on something like this than making 25%.






cgt2

1,327 posts

133 months

Thursday 8th August
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A lot of people chose to live with dash and steering wheel shrinkage when they were £40k so it wasnt uncommon to see bubbling but I personally couldn't live with it. There probably are cheaper fixes but I wanted an exact match trimmed perfectly so ended up getting a chap who trimmed old rare Ferraris to do the job properly. It took around three weeks and was bang on £5k. At the time that represented around 15% of what I paid for the whole car!

BMW A6

829 posts

9 months

Sunday 11th August
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ooid said:
There was a chap who bought 456 for 17k ! biggrin

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=11...
I thought, probably incorrectly, that it was the ratarossa bloke (silver Testarossa convertible) who purchased the 17k 456.

Paracetamol

4,053 posts

189 months

Monday 19th August
quotequote all
Mogul said:
P.s. the early 550 cars have Connolly hides but as they went bust around that time, the factory switched over to an Italian firm: Poltrona Frau.
I have a very early 550 (1997) and found the Poltrona Frau stamps on the dash when it was being retrimmed. Are you sure Connolly was ever used ? The leather is a darn sight better than the poor quality stuff used on modern Ferraris. My 458 creased badly within 15k kms

cgt2

1,327 posts

133 months

Monday 19th August
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Paracetamol said:
I have a very early 550 (1997) and found the Poltrona Frau stamps on the dash when it was being retrimmed. Are you sure Connolly was ever used ? The leather is a darn sight better than the poor quality stuff used on modern Ferraris. My 458 creased badly within 15k kms
All early-mid 90s Ferrari had Connolly until the changeover as mentioned. The owner of Connolly had a 1992 (I think- so late production) F40 which uniquely for the era was the only one I saw trimmed in leather from new (many more have of course been done since) which was featured in various magazines as a showcase for what the company did.

Early 1996 550's may have had Connolly but I think the company was going out of business around that time so it would be right in the time window.

Rivarama

23 posts

50 months

Sunday 1st September
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Hi All - this (31 pages and counting) thread has been my bedside reading for the past week and I am all caught up now.
It is fascinating to have followed a peak in the making and seeing it fade little by little, all this post after post.

After much deliberation and after years of ownership of nice cars (911s, Maserati etc...) I took the plunge bought my first Ferrari 3 years ago - a 2008 F430 w 16k miles. It’s been a brilliant experience so far and the car has proven to be as reliable as one could hope.
I have totally fallen in love with Ferrari’s, and as prices are starting to get “affordable” again for people who actually want to drive them, I am now fairly set on adding a 550 to the stable next to the F430.

I am trying to understand what they are worth now. Keeping in mind that £45-50k was buying a nice 30k miles RHD 5 years ago and that this same car would have hit £125-150k 2/3 years ago, I want to make sure I am not overpaying for appears to be a down trending market.
I am happy to buy a 40-45k Miles car that has been well maintained. They seem to stagnate around £75-80k at the moment and not moving. Is that because they’re over valued or they are not in good knicks? (Which is the same thing in the end)

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

I would also considering be considering a LHD for the right value as most of my driving happens in Europe anyway.
This one looks decent and has been know by TKFC for the past 5 years, but it’s not moving and has a patchy (at best) european history in its early years and show a slight bubbling on the glove box.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

It makes the RHD Grigio for £78k look like much better value.

In an ideal world - I would want to spend around £50k for a well sorted LHD with 40-50k miles and patchy history, or mid-high 60s for the equivalent RHD.

Am I being realistic?



ferrisbueller

23,400 posts

172 months

Sunday 1st September
quotequote all
I don't think the expectations you've suggested are overly optimistic. I think it's a buyer's market as financial uncertainty has tightened purse strings and there aren't as many people actively pursuing cars. Flip side of that is owners holding on to good cars until the market comes back. The market has definitely cooled but small numbers of the right cars, at the right money, are still moving but there's nothing like the turnover of 2-3 years ago. The challenge is getting close to the accurate definition of "right".

The massive inflation over the last few years brought all kinds of cars out of the woodwork with some people looking to cash in on average cars for top money. I think those cars will have been the first casualties as anyone buying (accepting) average cars with an eye on a potential upside now probably doesn't have that same view.

I think LHD vs RHD has closed up over the last few years, compounded by the GBP:EUR rate. I don't know if anyone has a comprehensive study of global markets and their relativity for cars like the 550 i.e. UK vs Europe vs Japan vs USA vs Gulf vs China etc. I know people who have bought and sold cars to/from the Far East in recent times as the markets have ebbed and flowed.

I guess a lot depends on whether you think things will return to the conditions of a few years ago or whether we're looking at a permanent negative shift. There's also the mindset of have it and enjoy it while everything else sorts it out but that means accepting uncertainty in the market.

21ATS

40 posts

17 months

Tuesday 3rd September
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The Rosso Car at KHPC is clean, I had a look at it earlier this year when it was still priced at £95K. I don't like red on these cars I think they suit more subtle colours. If red floats your boat it was certainly tidy.

The LHD argento car at KHPC is an import from Japan with sketchy history. Information I got second hand - so not gospel but worth checking.

I've had my eye on the Forza288 car for a while - the photography isn't that great but I have feeling that car is Grigio Alloy which I quite like.

It's a buyers market, these cars should be high £50's to low £60's now. I'm glad I waited. I offered £90k on a £100K 575m 18 months ago. The same car is still for sale in the £70's now and not sold, with a different dealer this time. My offer at the time was flatly refused, no potential for negotiation. That's Meridien for you.

I'm out until the political nonsense has been sorted out, my business (which imports in US$) is really hurting now, so right now isn't the time to be buying a third car as a toy.

Later this month there's a Ferrari auction at Silverstone - see here:- https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/events/2019-au...

As I type there are 6 Maranellos listed, three 550's and three 575's of varying degrees of condition, mileage and driving position. It's got to be worth watching those go through and see what the results are.

Jonny TVR

2,593 posts

226 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
21ATS said:
my business (which imports in US$) is really hurting now,
Mine is the same!

MDL111

3,759 posts

122 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
21ATS said:
The Rosso Car at KHPC is clean, I had a look at it earlier this year when it was still priced at £95K. I don't like red on these cars I think they suit more subtle colours. If red floats your boat it was certainly tidy.

The LHD argento car at KHPC is an import from Japan with sketchy history. Information I got second hand - so not gospel but worth checking.

I've had my eye on the Forza288 car for a while - the photography isn't that great but I have feeling that car is Grigio Alloy which I quite like.

It's a buyers market, these cars should be high £50's to low £60's now. I'm glad I waited. I offered £90k on a £100K 575m 18 months ago. The same car is still for sale in the £70's now and not sold, with a different dealer this time. My offer at the time was flatly refused, no potential for negotiation. That's Meridien for you.

I'm out until the political nonsense has been sorted out, my business (which imports in US$) is really hurting now, so right now isn't the time to be buying a third car as a toy.

Later this month there's a Ferrari auction at Silverstone - see here:- https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/events/2019-au...

As I type there are 6 Maranellos listed, three 550's and three 575's of varying degrees of condition, mileage and driving position. It's got to be worth watching those go through and see what the results are.
would quite like the 550 Pozzi car at that price level
What is wrong with the 512M or are they very conservative on the estimate (don't seem to be on the other cars)?

21ATS

40 posts

17 months

Wednesday 4th September
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The LHD Pozzi 550 looks nice - it failed to sell at another auction recently with a high bid of £48K (plus commission) It's a Japan import again with sketchy history. The tail tale is the floormats with "CORNES" logo - that's the Japanese Ferrari Dealer.


MDL111

3,759 posts

122 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
21ATS said:
The LHD Pozzi 550 looks nice - it failed to sell at another auction recently with a high bid of £48K (plus commission) It's a Japan import again with sketchy history. The tail tale is the floormats with "CORNES" logo - that's the Japanese Ferrari Dealer.
I saw that, wouldn't mind it though - not too fussed about history on cars as long as they are straight and have had a recent service.

Not in the market to buy one right now (although I sometime get the urge to buy something, so that might change in an instant), I think they will come back to close to pre-2014 levels eventually - at 50-60k ish Euros a 550 looks like a great car.

Looks like the investment craze is over and cars are slowly coming back to reality - will be interesting to see the auction results

Mogul

2,386 posts

168 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
Got close to buying a Pozzi 550 once.

An ex-Japan car may have a non-Europe friendly radio and the info stickers on the engine bay will presumably be in local lingo.

The main external visual clue is the rectangular side repeaters. Not sure if you can fit European round ones if you wanted to.

What’s that object on the dash (passenger side)?


Mogul

2,386 posts

168 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all

21ATS

40 posts

17 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
I noticed that object on the screen also. I have no idea what it is.

The idea of LHD 550 is actually quite appealing. I fancy using it to drive the historic racing events on the continent and I could see it spending more time abroad than in the UK.

Like you I'm not entirely bothered by a less than perfect example as I'd actually like to drive and enjoy it rather than look at it under a dust sheet appreciating/depreciating in storage. At the appropriate price though.

A lot a scabby monsters came out of the woodwork over the last few years of silliness trying to sell for £100K.

I've been looking now for two years watching the prices slowly adjust back to realistic numbers. I started off wanting a 575, but then I drove one with the F1 box and I didn't like it. I drove a second one with an F1 box that had a new clutch and it was like a different car altogether. Then I drove a high mile manual 575 - and it was just nicer in almost every respect.

The premium for manual 575's used to be +£10k to £15K over the equal F1 car before the bubble. It then hit a 100% premium which is just daft. So at that point I started looking at 550's and I've begun to like the more pure uncluttered design of the 550.

That said I'd take a manual 575 over a 550 if all things were equal.

Visually they really got it right first time. Mechanically it's surprising how much more competent the 575 is over the 550.

Edited by 21ATS on Wednesday 4th September 21:31

cgt2

1,327 posts

133 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
There was no premium for a manual 575, when I bought mine in 2009 it was £15k less than the equivalent F1 and a number of people on CS said I was buying the wrong one and should spend a bit more for an F1!!!

I've had the aforementioned 575 Manual and several 550's and in my view the 550 is a better car as it feels a bit more raw. I also prefer the instrument dials and more classic interior.

21ATS

40 posts

17 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
I've gradually come to a similar conclusion about the appearance of the 550 internally and out.

I'm also an absolute sucker for diamond stitched parcel shelves and headliners.