550 Maranello article - they'll be £200k before you know it!
Discussion
Photo as requested. And yes, it's been everything I hoped it would be. Living in NE Scotland means I only use it 7 months of the year due to road salt, but I normally average 2.5-3k miles a year. Last year was a pitiful 1.5k, which led to a commitment to do more this year. Not went well so far(!), although I may use it tonight to go shopping as I dug it out the back of the garage at the weekend.
What I would say, and it's only my opinion, is that black does nothing for the interior of these cars. Mine is bordeaux with black carpets, and it feels so much more special to me instead of if it was black
john_1983 said:
Photo as requested. And yes, it's been everything I hoped it would be. Living in NE Scotland means I only use it 7 months of the year due to road salt, but I normally average 2.5-3k miles a year. Last year was a pitiful 1.5k, which led to a commitment to do more this year. Not went well so far(!), although I may use it tonight to go shopping as I dug it out the back of the garage at the weekend.
What I would say, and it's only my opinion, is that black does nothing for the interior of these cars. Mine is bordeaux with black carpets, and it feels so much more special to me instead of if it was black
john_1983 said:
Photo as requested. And yes, it's been everything I hoped it would be. Living in NE Scotland means I only use it 7 months of the year due to road salt, but I normally average 2.5-3k miles a year. Last year was a pitiful 1.5k, which led to a commitment to do more this year. Not went well so far(!), although I may use it tonight to go shopping as I dug it out the back of the garage at the weekend.
What I would say, and it's only my opinion, is that black does nothing for the interior of these cars. Mine is bordeaux with black carpets, and it feels so much more special to me instead of if it was black
Which loch is that?
john_1983 said:
Photo as requested. And yes, it's been everything I hoped it would be. Living in NE Scotland means I only use it 7 months of the year due to road salt, but I normally average 2.5-3k miles a year. Last year was a pitiful 1.5k, which led to a commitment to do more this year. Not went well so far(!), although I may use it tonight to go shopping as I dug it out the back of the garage at the weekend.
What I would say, and it's only my opinion, is that black does nothing for the interior of these cars. Mine is bordeaux with black carpets, and it feels so much more special to me instead of if it was black
21ATS said:
ferrisbueller said:
I've followed this thread (and others) and I've followed the market in the UK and Europe for many years and continue to do so. I'm not sure what "evidence" I'm meant to be looking for. The +/- £100k simply isn't accurate. +100% would be nearer but is probably still too high. The minus is yet to be defined but the current advertised prices are indicating £80k as a starting point, excluding the high miler. These cars advertised at that price point never hit £180k.
Other examples:
Forza are showing a 44k mile car sold at £76k. Even allowing for some haggle room, that car has not shed £100k.
Furlonger asking £105k for a TdF 34k mile car. That was never £205k. (What did the rare Manual 575s hit, £175k?, itself perhaps a doubling of where they had been).
In Europe, where the exchange rate impacts the delta over that period, then there's maybe a 15% offset but again no 100k Euro or GBP shift.
Of what's about at present the Ex-Clapton Barchetta at DK seems value at a sticker price of £285k
If you take a look I've posted sale prices, not asking prices. Don't confuse the two. Other examples:
Forza are showing a 44k mile car sold at £76k. Even allowing for some haggle room, that car has not shed £100k.
Furlonger asking £105k for a TdF 34k mile car. That was never £205k. (What did the rare Manual 575s hit, £175k?, itself perhaps a doubling of where they had been).
In Europe, where the exchange rate impacts the delta over that period, then there's maybe a 15% offset but again no 100k Euro or GBP shift.
Of what's about at present the Ex-Clapton Barchetta at DK seems value at a sticker price of £285k
Edited by ferrisbueller on Tuesday 28th April 13:43
I've posted a £39K sale and £150K sale on two very similar vehicles. Actual sales.
The Forza288 Grigio Alloy car has been for sale for nearly 3 years. It looks like it's sold. But for what? Do you know? I don't. It could be £50K it could be £75K. Was that a £150K ever? May have been in 2015 if they'd wanted to sell it then, but it may not.
So we do know as fact that they were low at one time - as low as in the £30k/£40K range as we've seen from actual sales (one linked above) as far back as 2012/14 and earlier. Then they went up as high as £150K around 2015 as we've seen from actual sales (one linked above). Now there coming back down through the £60's and £50's - again actual sales (linked above a recent sale on Collecting Cars). They are probably still falling and will continue into next year I imagine.
So we're seeing an approximate £100K swing for vehicles around a similar mileage, spec and condition. That's not picking numbers from thin air - there are sales backing those numbers up.
What do want to see exactly? The very same exact car sold at three price points.
EDIT:- Why don't we just agree to disagree on this? I'm clearly seeing a £100K swing over a period of time and you're not. I can live with that if it ends this circular conversation.
Edited by 21ATS on Tuesday 28th April 14:21
Your chosen low example is from 2012, when it was £39k. That same car, allowing for a slightly increased mileage over the extended 8 year intervening period, would now be pitched at £80k+ IMO.
The high end example was part of a collection sold at auction. Some were sold for charity, it's not clear whether this one was, but it was something of an outlier at the time.
And, yes, ideally we'd be looking at data of the same cars going through that cycle, in the same way posters here talk of their own cars.
At the time this thread started in 2014 prices were well beyond that low point, £85-95k is mentioned early on. I can't remember what the spread was but someone will have the data.
The high water mark of cars such as ultra low mileage and WSRs pushing £200k were the high end, small in numbers, and nowhere near the mean. Optimistic asking prices (like pushing £200k!) for more average cars weren't being achieved AFAIK. Whereas a rising tide lifts all boats the distribution is not normal - sought after cars get disproportionate value.
In terms of present values trying to predict that high end is not simple. I can't find a WSR for sale (may be one in Italy priced at 270k Euro but sparse detail, the nearest other being a Schumacher car in Germany at 158k Euro) and examples of these low-mile "collectable" grade cars don't seem to be coming up - understandable for investors to not want to sell at a loss.
The exceptional minority pushed the envelope, the typical average 550 was some way behind; The spread at one point possibly exceeded 100k. You've interspersed your cherry picked sold prices with speculation at various points, and specificity with generalisation. The rapid increases through to 2016 stalled as the uncertainty at the time took hold. Even before we got through the B-word, we've now got a C-word causing issues.
If cars such as those you posted as examples, with 20-30k miles, are now as you say changing hands for £50-60k then post them up (and I mean that as a genuine request) as a number of people would be interested in buying and traders are asking £120k for them. If I ring Furlonger up and offer him £60k for that TdF car he has up at £105k I think it will be a short conversation. That number seems to be the level for a 575 F1 and I don't think there is a good stock of 550s floating about at that mark. People I know in the trade aren't seeing them. Some owners may be raising cash to pump into other investments during this low period but not many people are giving them away.
Perhaps the bigger question is what happens next.
kith said:
john_1983 said:
Photo as requested. And yes, it's been everything I hoped it would be. Living in NE Scotland means I only use it 7 months of the year due to road salt, but I normally average 2.5-3k miles a year. Last year was a pitiful 1.5k, which led to a commitment to do more this year. Not went well so far(!), although I may use it tonight to go shopping as I dug it out the back of the garage at the weekend.
What I would say, and it's only my opinion, is that black does nothing for the interior of these cars. Mine is bordeaux with black carpets, and it feels so much more special to me instead of if it was black
Interior as requested, pic is from the for sale ad so taken late 2013. The glovebox lid isn't perfect as can be seen but is better now, after some leather conditioner. Not bad enough to bother me overly.
Pic was taken at the Badachro inn a few years ago, Loch Gairloch in the background. I got very lucky with the weather and the lighting on the west coast that trip, still remains one of my favourite photos of the car
john_1983 said:
Interior as requested, pic is from the for sale ad so taken late 2013. The glovebox lid isn't perfect as can be seen but is better now, after some leather conditioner. Not bad enough to bother me overly.
Pic was taken at the Badachro inn a few years ago, Loch Gairloch in the background. I got very lucky with the weather and the lighting on the west coast that trip, still remains one of my favourite photos of the car
john_1983 said:
Interior as requested, pic is from the for sale ad so taken late 2013. The glovebox lid isn't perfect as can be seen but is better now, after some leather conditioner. Not bad enough to bother me overly.
Pic was taken at the Badachro inn a few years ago, Loch Gairloch in the background. I got very lucky with the weather and the lighting on the west coast that trip, still remains one of my favourite photos of the car
john_1983 said:
Interior as requested, pic is from the for sale ad so taken late 2013. The glovebox lid isn't perfect as can be seen but is better now, after some leather conditioner. Not bad enough to bother me overly.
Pic was taken at the Badachro inn a few years ago, Loch Gairloch in the background. I got very lucky with the weather and the lighting on the west coast that trip, still remains one of my favourite photos of the car
john_1983 said:
Photo as requested. And yes, it's been everything I hoped it would be. Living in NE Scotland means I only use it 7 months of the year due to road salt, but I normally average 2.5-3k miles a year. Last year was a pitiful 1.5k, which led to a commitment to do more this year. Not went well so far(!), although I may use it tonight to go shopping as I dug it out the back of the garage at the weekend.
What I would say, and it's only my opinion, is that black does nothing for the interior of these cars. Mine is bordeaux with black carpets, and it feels so much more special to me instead of if it was black
I'm also not keen on black interiors.
In order of preference I'm after anything green (rare I know) Blue TDF or Grigio Titanio.
I don't like sheilds and I don't like the Barchetta Modular alloys.
I'm 50, I want one of these to keep and drive so I'd be quite happy with a higher mileage car as there would be no requirement to sell it on.
Mogul said:
Here's a real world example of how you can lose "£100k" on a Maranello (albeit a 575M manual) in the recent market bubble.
I think the seller/buyer was the same. £104k was the hit to them with the currency shift during that time, though they obviously were dealing is USD all the while. It made me wish I'd coughed up for the TdF car I could have had for £8x,000 a few years back.ferrisbueller said:
Mogul said:
I think the seller/buyer was the same. £104k was the hit to them with the currency shift during that time, though they obviously were dealing is USD all the while. It made me wish I'd coughed up for the TdF car I could have had for £8x,000 a few years back.Does anyone have a view/knowledge on this one...
https://www.fast-classics.com/cars/ferrari-550-mar...
Any negative of the singaporean origins?
https://www.fast-classics.com/cars/ferrari-550-mar...
Any negative of the singaporean origins?
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