FF - known problems?
Discussion
Thinking about switching to FF. Been doing research into what to look out for and heard there have been issues with some fixing bolts on the ceramic brake assemblies? Worst case all four wheels would be eye wateringly expensive!
Thoughts and comments welcome on this as well as any other watch outs. Thank you all...
Thoughts and comments welcome on this as well as any other watch outs. Thank you all...
fitzmoresco said:
Thinking about switching to FF. Been doing research into what to look out for and heard there have been issues with some fixing bolts on the ceramic brake assemblies? Worst case all four wheels would be eye wateringly expensive!
Thoughts and comments welcome on this as well as any other watch outs. Thank you all...
Pretty robust cars..Two most well known mechanical problems are the PTU and some rare cases of DCT issues..The PTU takes power from engine to the front axle and are known to fail..The DCT is mostly caused by leakage and not covered by the Ferrari Power warranty.Thoughts and comments welcome on this as well as any other watch outs. Thank you all...
To be fair the DCT problems is very rare and only afflicted very early cars and should be sorted by now..All Ferraris have battery problems including mine and i switched to an Antigravity Lithium one which solved it..FFs are fantastic cars IMO and a fantastic bargain right now,
Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 29th October 20:48
Rusty brake disc bolts only affect those cars driven in winter and are common to all Ferraris built after 2008/9 when CCBs became standard.
Main issues with the FF are;
Leaking lift pump (not all cars have lift). It used to be an expensive fix (£10k) as Ferrari mandated a complete new pump design (as used in Lusso) with new wiring loom etc. Owners have discovered that a simple seal replacement does the job.
DCT sensor issue - this affects all DCT boxes in FFs, F12s, 458 and Calis so not really a FF specific problem. The trouble is that it cannot be inspected so you have no warning that it’s going to go. Cost to fix is around £5k as Ferrari dealers can now rebuild the getrag gearbox whereas previously it was a gearbox swap.
PTU - this is the biggie. It’s FF specific and often requires replacement of the PTU as it’s not a dealer serviceable part. It seems that the problem is caused by a leaking seal between the PTU and the engine crankcase. Whatever it is, the installed cost of a new one is around £30k.
Despite what you may read on the forums about PTU and DCT problems, the annual failure rate is reasonably low (20% pa for DCT and 5% for PTU). If you risk adjust the cost of failure, you’re looking at possible bills of £2.5k pa. Ferrari will sell you a warranty for c£5k pa so self insuring is cheaper - unless you don’t have the spare funds for a new PTU in which case, buy the warranty.
Main issues with the FF are;
Leaking lift pump (not all cars have lift). It used to be an expensive fix (£10k) as Ferrari mandated a complete new pump design (as used in Lusso) with new wiring loom etc. Owners have discovered that a simple seal replacement does the job.
DCT sensor issue - this affects all DCT boxes in FFs, F12s, 458 and Calis so not really a FF specific problem. The trouble is that it cannot be inspected so you have no warning that it’s going to go. Cost to fix is around £5k as Ferrari dealers can now rebuild the getrag gearbox whereas previously it was a gearbox swap.
PTU - this is the biggie. It’s FF specific and often requires replacement of the PTU as it’s not a dealer serviceable part. It seems that the problem is caused by a leaking seal between the PTU and the engine crankcase. Whatever it is, the installed cost of a new one is around £30k.
Despite what you may read on the forums about PTU and DCT problems, the annual failure rate is reasonably low (20% pa for DCT and 5% for PTU). If you risk adjust the cost of failure, you’re looking at possible bills of £2.5k pa. Ferrari will sell you a warranty for c£5k pa so self insuring is cheaper - unless you don’t have the spare funds for a new PTU in which case, buy the warranty.
my DCT seal failure was covered by the warranty. No idea what it cost to fix, but they did a gearbox repair twice already - not a new box though as far as I am aware
First time, I only realised I was in trouble when I had spilt fluid all over the road and the car stopped shifting gears.
Second time, I realised something was amiss because the car refused to shift from 6th to 7th at high engine revs multiple times in a row (from memory it shifted until about 5.5k or 6k rpm but not above that and the problem was only 6th to 7th, other gears were fine)
Some of the bolts on my brakes are rusty - car has now seen 3 winters during my ownership, not sure about the first 3 years. There is a lot of salt on the roads here though. Ferrari will indeed not replace bolts and when the time comes, I will look into finding somebody to take the assembly apart and replace just the bolts.
All the mesh covers are rusty as well (doesn't bother me that much as it kinda matches the brown colour of the car ....)
My NAV screen recently packed it in, which is a bit annoying as now I no longer have radio. Am waiting for a quote to replace it like for like or with the newer Ferrari screen offered via the Accessories catalogue (forgot what it is called)
One (or more) of my front parking sensors have had issues since I bought the car 4 years ago. Had one or two replaced (not covered by warranty from memory), but the problem still persists. They are kinda pointless anyway tbh
just had the battery replaced for a second time - they are weak (I got the stronger recommended one already), but still threw errors regularly (usually solved by switching off or disconnecting battery or in some cases just ignoring them - if I dropped the car at Ferrari for every warning light, it would probably live there more than in my garage). Car is very sensitive to weak battery current
I think I replaced either front or rear brake pads once.
I don't think anything else failed/happened during the last 60k km
I paid for next year's service during the warranty extension and got a discount on the service fee (I think cost post discount of c 1,100 Euros plus VAT)
I will most likely keep the warranty for the full 15 years, just to be on the safe side. I would consider not doing that though if I only drove little mileage a year - for me it is more about covering a gearbox/PTU/engine rebuild, which might well occur at some point when the car hits high mileage
First time, I only realised I was in trouble when I had spilt fluid all over the road and the car stopped shifting gears.
Second time, I realised something was amiss because the car refused to shift from 6th to 7th at high engine revs multiple times in a row (from memory it shifted until about 5.5k or 6k rpm but not above that and the problem was only 6th to 7th, other gears were fine)
Some of the bolts on my brakes are rusty - car has now seen 3 winters during my ownership, not sure about the first 3 years. There is a lot of salt on the roads here though. Ferrari will indeed not replace bolts and when the time comes, I will look into finding somebody to take the assembly apart and replace just the bolts.
All the mesh covers are rusty as well (doesn't bother me that much as it kinda matches the brown colour of the car ....)
My NAV screen recently packed it in, which is a bit annoying as now I no longer have radio. Am waiting for a quote to replace it like for like or with the newer Ferrari screen offered via the Accessories catalogue (forgot what it is called)
One (or more) of my front parking sensors have had issues since I bought the car 4 years ago. Had one or two replaced (not covered by warranty from memory), but the problem still persists. They are kinda pointless anyway tbh
just had the battery replaced for a second time - they are weak (I got the stronger recommended one already), but still threw errors regularly (usually solved by switching off or disconnecting battery or in some cases just ignoring them - if I dropped the car at Ferrari for every warning light, it would probably live there more than in my garage). Car is very sensitive to weak battery current
I think I replaced either front or rear brake pads once.
I don't think anything else failed/happened during the last 60k km
I paid for next year's service during the warranty extension and got a discount on the service fee (I think cost post discount of c 1,100 Euros plus VAT)
I will most likely keep the warranty for the full 15 years, just to be on the safe side. I would consider not doing that though if I only drove little mileage a year - for me it is more about covering a gearbox/PTU/engine rebuild, which might well occur at some point when the car hits high mileage
Thank you for the helpful comments. I’ve had a 599 for a while and it’s epic. But like all these cars there is always the potential for something expensive going wrong. I replaced the shocks which only came in pairs for example even though I only needed the one.
Test driving an FF tomorrow and will take a view
Thanks again
Test driving an FF tomorrow and will take a view
Thanks again
fitzmoresco said:
Thank you for the helpful comments. I’ve had a 599 for a while and it’s epic. But like all these cars there is always the potential for something expensive going wrong. I replaced the shocks which only came in pairs for example even though I only needed the one.
Test driving an FF tomorrow and will take a view
Thanks again
with regards to driving it, I only drive mine in Sports and Manual mode - otherwise it can feel a little underwhelming (well unless there is snow on the road, then it is fun in all modes and it is fascinating to see the difference between Sports and Snow mode)Test driving an FF tomorrow and will take a view
Thanks again
have fun
Simply loved the car. The dual clutch is night and day between the FF and my 599. In fact it went so well I tried to get a deal done. However the dealer offered me a smelly price on mine and wouldn’t move on his (“because it owes him”) so the cost to change is too wide to do anything. I am not being greedy or unrealistic but it was a daft number and my counter offer wasn’t agreed. Dealer said the 599 is a great car but may be slow moving from his inventory so was pricing it accordingly. WOW! Shock news dealer wants risk free profit... so shook hands, thanked him for the test drive and left. I don’t have to buy an FF but dealer does have to sell cars. Let’s see if they want to come to the party
MDL111 said:
That’s a shame - would have thought a 2-seater is easier to move than a 4-seater
I love both FFs and 599 however both seem tough to shift right now unless priced at the lower end..The 599's F1 box is now starting to put buyers off due to durability issues compared to the smoother and durable DCT.Taffy66 said:
I love both FFs and 599 however both seem tough to shift right now unless priced at the lower end..The 599's F1 box is now starting to put buyers off due to durability issues compared to the smoother and durable DCT.
You’re all over the Ferrari market Taffy....another purchase in the offing!?!? I’ve got a serious hankering for something from Maranello with a V12 under the bonnet.Cheib said:
Taffy66 said:
I love both FFs and 599 however both seem tough to shift right now unless priced at the lower end..The 599's F1 box is now starting to put buyers off due to durability issues compared to the smoother and durable DCT.
You’re all over the Ferrari market Taffy....another purchase in the offing!?!? I’ve got a serious hankering for something from Maranello with a V12 under the bonnet.Any donations would be very welcome Cheib..Just PM me and i'll give you my banking details...
911Thrasher said:
how big is the PTU issue? a few cars, or a fair chunk of them?
since discovering this matter here on the net...it is almost pushing me back to a 612OTO rather
My best estimate, based on reported failures and allowing for an incomplete data set is that 0.5% of the global FF fleet experiences a PTU failure each year. That’s roughly 12 cars a year. (We have more data since my last post in October 2019). since discovering this matter here on the net...it is almost pushing me back to a 612OTO rather
There is also a better understanding now of what causes the PTU to fail (it’s an internal hydraulic seal in the selector forks). Given that places like Furlonger and SSAutotech will rebuild the PTU with modified parts (to prevent the problem recurring) for a modest (by Ferrari standards) fee of around £8k, the PTU should only be a minor factor in the decision to go for a 612 or FF.
Edited by ANOpax on Wednesday 2nd December 21:03
911Thrasher said:
how big is the PTU issue? a few cars, or a fair chunk of them?
since discovering this matter here on the net...it is almost pushing me back to a 612OTO rather
If you don’t need the 4wd or the additional space, then I would be tempted by a 612 and have it converted to manual since discovering this matter here on the net...it is almost pushing me back to a 612OTO rather
ANOpax said:
My best estimate, based on reported failures and allowing for an incomplete data set is that 0.5% of the global FF fleet experiences a PTU failure each year. That’s roughly 12 cars a year. (We have more data since my last post in October 2019).
There is also a better understanding now of what causes the PTU to fail (it’s an internal hydraulic seal in the selector forks). Given that places like Furlonger and SSAutotech will rebuild the PTU with modified parts (to prevent the problem recurring) for a modest (by Ferrari standards) fee of around £8k, the PTU should only be a minor factor in the decision to go for a 612 or FF.
This is great news and thank you so much...I was struggling to find a clear answer! Indeed 8-10k£ is no issue...FF it is then, no 612. FF sounds so much better There is also a better understanding now of what causes the PTU to fail (it’s an internal hydraulic seal in the selector forks). Given that places like Furlonger and SSAutotech will rebuild the PTU with modified parts (to prevent the problem recurring) for a modest (by Ferrari standards) fee of around £8k, the PTU should only be a minor factor in the decision to go for a 612 or FF.
Edited by ANOpax on Wednesday 2nd December 21:03
911Thrasher said:
This is great news and thank you so much...I was struggling to find a clear answer! Indeed 8-10k£ is no issue...FF it is then, no 612. FF sounds so much better
You're welcome. Please post photos when you get one (or if you're stuck choosing, post the candidates you're looking at). And if you get the car properly inspected prior to purchase, don't bother with the New Power warranty - there are too many warranty exclusions and you'd be better off putting your warranty money into a 'repair fund' of your own for those inevitable big bills (which are highly unlikely to be covered by the warranty). If you're buying from a Ferrari dealer the car will come with 2 years' NP warranty anyway so it gives you peace of mind but you'll be paying for it in the sticker price...I don't know whether you'd be able to negotiate a sale from Ferrari without the NP warranty but it might be worth a try.
ANOpax said:
You're welcome. Please post photos when you get one (or if you're stuck choosing, post the candidates you're looking at). And if you get the car properly inspected prior to purchase, don't bother with the New Power warranty - there are too many warranty exclusions and you'd be better off putting your warranty money into a 'repair fund' of your own for those inevitable big bills (which are highly unlikely to be covered by the warranty). If you're buying from a Ferrari dealer the car will come with 2 years' NP warranty anyway so it gives you peace of mind but you'll be paying for it in the sticker price...
I don't know whether you'd be able to negotiate a sale from Ferrari without the NP warranty but it might be worth a try.
I probably will try to buy from Ferrari itself or someone like Furlonger...all we want is metallic black or dark blue with Daytona interior (dark preferably as 4-6years old)...the rest is all bonus.I don't know whether you'd be able to negotiate a sale from Ferrari without the NP warranty but it might be worth a try.
Ferrari around the corner actually has a dark metallic grey with black/grey daytona at the moment for £99k which seems way reasonable!
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11008058
Q1 it is...selling our Mercedes G55 and Classic Range Rover right now to free some "park on the street" space! Keeping the Bentley T2. Central London isn't great for that, especially as we have massive cars.
I've had 360, 575HGTC, 2 Stradale and 1Scud in the past...all have been flawless, but they were simple.
Drove way over 30kmiles between my 2 Stradales (and i would have another one in a heart beat, if no little boys), DD and loads of track days, never had a single issue.
Now reading about FF makes you wonder if the reliability has gone down with complexity?? And as it will be my wife's DD,...you don't want her calling me because she is stranded on a school run with a leaking Ferrari in central london! that would be a nightmare, i tell you that.
Edited by 911Thrasher on Thursday 3rd December 10:07
911Thrasher said:
I probably will try to buy from Ferrari itself or someone like Furlonger...all we want is metallic black or dark blue with Daytona interior (dark preferably as 4-6years old)...the rest is all bonus.
Ferrari around the corner actually has a dark metallic grey with black/grey daytona at the moment for £99k which seems way reasonable!
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11008058
The grigio silverstone FF looks great. I'm not normally a fan of the aluminium trimmed interiors but the spec of the Daytona seats with contrast inserts and stitching ties it all together really well. And if the price is good with warranty then why not trade one of your other cars for it? The only thing missing spec wise is the carbon wheel with shift lights but that's a bit of a marmite option. Most people love it but some hate it.Ferrari around the corner actually has a dark metallic grey with black/grey daytona at the moment for £99k which seems way reasonable!
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11008058
No supercar is good in traffic but if your wife is going to be doing the school run in the FF then keep it in sport auto (and press the bumpy road button) as the gear changes at low revs and low speed in comfort auto can be a bit dim-witted. Otherwise, comfort manual is also a decent configuration.
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