F12 over 458

[willy wombat]

I sympathise with some of this particularly “I’ve just had my hair done” when I go to lower the roof but in fairness to Mrs W, she’s pretty good with a road book and navigated us on the Mille Miglia Tribute no problem. These discussions make me realise how much I’m missing touring this year. Hopefully 2021 will see some return to normality.

[sparta6]

_Leg_ said:

willy wombat said:

I normally agree with _leg_ about most things but I don't agree that a 458 is not suitable for couples' touring. I have done a number of French and Italian trips with Mrs Wombat in the 458 (spider). She finds it comfortable and it will accommodate a surprising amount of luggage if you use squashy bags and a suit-carrier (three squashy bags and suit-carrier in the boot and a couple of smaller squashy bags behind the seats).As to whether F12 or 458 - why not one of each?

My Mrs thinks a 3* hotel is camping. She looks at me like I'm mental if I lower the roof in anything less than 30c and then complains it's too windy. She needs 1372 dress options for 2 weeks away and buys 10 whilst we're away.

If you can sell her on the idea of anything less than a full sized suitcase you're a better man than I.

I've toured extensively in the 458 Spider with a mate along for the ride with bags of camera/drone gear, cool box, softbags and a 'suit' carrier as you say. It does work. It's the wife that doesn't work*. ;-)

.*I looked at a trade in but the costs were prohibitive and the finance options non existent.

Have you checked the Warranty smallprint ?

[RogGT-R]

_Leg_ said:

My Mrs thinks a 3* hotel is camping. She looks at me like I'm mental if I lower the roof in anything less than 30c and then complains it's too windy. She needs 1372 dress options for 2 weeks away and buys 10 whilst we're away.

If you can sell her on the idea of anything less than a full sized suitcase you're a better man than I.

I've toured extensively in the 458 Spider with a mate along for the ride with bags of camera/drone gear, cool box, softbags and a 'suit' carrier as you say. It does work. It's the wife that doesn't work*. ;-)

.*I looked at a trade in but the costs were prohibitive and the finance options non existent.

This made me laugh a lot. I have the issue of two sets of shoes per day and then emergency shoes in case weather/phases of the moon/other unintelligible reasons kick in and all the current shoes are unacceptable.

Heaven help us if new dresses are acquired as then many, many pounds are spent on things to coordinate with the dress. And then handbags, dear god the handbags.

Oddly the car at JCT I was looking at appears to have gone up £10k today....?

[RogGT-R]

willy wombat said:

I sympathise with some of this particularly “I’ve just had my hair done” when I go to lower the roof but in fairness to Mrs W, she’s pretty good with a road book and navigated us on the Mille Miglia Tribute no problem. These discussions make me realise how much I’m missing touring this year. Hopefully 2021 will see some return to normality.

I think we all do. We have a trip booked for last two weeks in September from NYC to Buffalo, Toronto then New Hampshire and New England.

Few of us going and got amazing rates on a fleet of BMW 740i s (£850 for two weeks with no mileage limit!).

Anyway I suspect I may be getting more £thousands back from BA again instead.

[DeejRC]

Don’t forget the immense importance of the memory seat package and the “heaty
Bottom button”. I made the mistake of buying us a Cayenne. It takes everything and the dogs.

The current “discussion” over F12s, 599s and 911 TTS involves lots of raised eyebrows.

[sparta6]

DeejRC said:

Don’t forget the immense importance of the memory seat package and the “heaty
Bottom button”. I made the mistake of buying us a Cayenne. It takes everything and the dogs.

The current “discussion” over F12s, 599s and 911 TTS involves lots of raised eyebrows.

You've now crossed the line with a Cayenne !

I refuse anything more capacious than the 928 for euro tours, which allows her to become more creative with shopping choices

[RogGT-R]

DeejRC said:

Don’t forget the immense importance of the memory seat package and the “heaty
Bottom button”. I made the mistake of buying us a Cayenne. It takes everything and the dogs.

The current “discussion” over F12s, 599s and 911 TTS involves lots of raised eyebrows.

I am leaning toward the Rosso/Crema at JCT Leeds currently. Although it appears to be £10K more than it was last week and more expensive than the Fuoco with Carbon seats which has less miles.

Anyway - big news is the Nismo sold (2.5 weeks which is decent) and didn’t take as mind battering a kick in the nuts as I feared. After jigging money around the cash should hit bank Wednesday...

I do get the feeling it’s a terrible time to buy and get the best deal however so am thinking of watching until November ish.

[Purso]

good news on the sale, if you are thinking of waiting what ever you do dont go and see one in the nean time

[RogGT-R]

Purso said:

good news on the sale, if you are thinking of waiting what ever you do dont go and see one in the nean time

Haha those are probably wise words.

I must stop watching Chris Harris and MrJWW doing videos on F12s...

Just trying to do some research on this steering which keeps coming up. Evo seemed to suggest that it was fine on a long Motorway cruise and wouldn’t kill you once you got used to the car.

[DeejRC]

See, Ive got 4 cars in my basket:

599GTB
F12
DBSS
992 TTS

I keep cycling between a different 2 each week. This week I’m thinking it’s between £100k 599 and £150k DBSS.

I ponder what will happen with F12s and DBSS between now and end of the yr. I suspect F12s may dip to £140k, the Aston may well see £130k. The 599? We may see a £90k car in a Ferrari dealership.

I don’t have to do the hooker or wife decision like you, I’ve got the Alfa for the hooker already. It’s purely a grown up GT decision for me.

[Purso]

Nice selection of machinery on the radar, you also have to factor on loss of driving time in the summer by buying in the winter.

[RogGT-R]

Interesting to see how prices go over next few weeks after post lockdown pent up demand dies off.

[speedbird1000]

Driving F12...it is the Ferrari heavyweight... just gets so much positive attention these days as it's sooo good looking in rosso. It seems probably on half of all trips someone films away. I think the quick steering is safer, you can adjust your line quicker and I don't think it feels nervous at all once your used to it. Just wish it had another 150 bhp really..clarkson's review really showed him up as just an old fa**.

[RogGT-R]

speedbird1000 said:

Driving F12...it is the Ferrari heavyweight... just gets so much positive attention these days as it's sooo good looking in rosso. It seems probably on half of all trips someone films away. I think the quick steering is safer, you can adjust your line quicker and I don't think it feels nervous at all once your used to it. Just wish it had another 150 bhp really..clarkson's review really showed him up as just an old fa**.

Thanks - deposit paid and going to look at car and test drive (and sign off all things being equal) at the weekend so will keep all posted. Only major concern is battery now and how long it lasts between needing a charge, how long to charge for. I don’t have any access to power in parking.....

Dealer going to fit an Odyssey battery as part of handover - how does that stack up to the best does anyone know?

[Taffy66]

RogGT-R said:

Thanks - deposit paid and going to look at car and test drive (and sign off all things being equal) at the weekend so will keep all posted. Only major concern is battery now and how long it lasts between needing a charge, how long to charge for. I don’t have any access to power in parking.....

Dealer going to fit an Odyssey battery as part of handover - how does that stack up to the best does anyone know?

F12s are amazing even by Ferrari standards..I don't rate the Ferrari branded Odyssey battery which i had on my 458 and after about 8 months switched to an Antigravity Li-ion battery..

[rosino]

I had a 458 Speciale which i used on track, b-roads, UK and Europe Mountain passes. I found it surprisingly comfortable with the bumpy road button on, I was coming from a GT3 which is much less forgiving.

I hardly did any motorway miles unless strictly necessary so wouldn't know if it would be too loud cruising in Europe at decent speeds for hours on end, but I found it eminently usable with lots go luggage space for 2. The car is epic, absolutely epic. It reads your mind and is so fun and engaging it's hard to describe, I loved everything about it. Everything. And people seemed to love it too in red with the NART stripe. It was gloriously OTT and magnificent.

I have an F12 now in Daytona Black. Much much more elegant, it is more refined for sure. The interior for me is more or less the same, same old tech but I don't mind, I probably prefer it than a million screens like the Roma which for me has no place in a Ferrari. I am quite focused when I drive those cars, it's a special moment and I don't mind having very few distractions.

Chassis-wise of course it's a different beast, you are very aware of that long bonnet but after a while things start to feel more natural, and of course everything is dominated by the engine. Oh my god the engine. It has to be experienced to be believed, and not in England, in Europe, on a good road up a mountain pass, with good visibility, good width and where you can open up a bit without the worry that 2 cars won't fit if somebody is coming the other way like in the UK in most places.

For me the F12 is mostly about the engine, but there's a balance and a friendliness to the chassis once the tyres are warm that is inviting, you can drive it in TC-off in the dry when tyres are up to 50c and not taking too many liberties you can have fun.

The Speciale on the other hand would oversteer the moment you were remotely thinking about it, it would already be sideways. Incredible feeling. And fantastic if you want to be on it.

I love both. I really do. If I had the money I would probably get back into a Speciale though as that is the car that got the most under my skin than any other car I have ever driven. But if you go F12 you won't go wrong, they are incredible value at the moment and that sound is something else, it's like F1 of the good old days out of the factory, and for me the Pininfarina design will remain a classic whilst the 812 is way too fussy and trying too hard.

It's difficult, but the reality is that you would need to spend time in both for more than the 20' test drive on some rubbish roads that the Dealers can offer you (if you can get that...). But whatever you do I beg you to take the car, drive or transport it to Italy and drive it on decent roads surrounded by people giving you the thumbs up and immediately allowing you to overtake and smiling at you. Completely different experience than driving these cars in England I have to say.

Edited by rosino on Tuesday 4th August 09:18

[Taffy66]

^
Brilliant post

[Fuoco]

RogGT-R said:

Thanks - deposit paid and going to look at car and test drive (and sign off all things being equal) at the weekend so will keep all posted. Only major concern is battery now and how long it lasts between needing a charge, how long to charge for. I don’t have any access to power in parking.....

Dealer going to fit an Odyssey battery as part of handover - how does that stack up to the best does anyone know?

I just bought the Fuoco Rosso F12 from JCT Leeds and they delivered in a covered transporter, I noticed their other F12 has just been reserved, assuming that is you is it? Congrats

[Fuoco]

rosino said:

I had a 458 Speciale which i used on track, b-roads, UK and Europe Mountain passes. I found it surprisingly comfortable with the bumpy road button on, I was coming from a GT3 which is much less forgiving.

I hardly did any motorway miles unless strictly necessary so wouldn't know if it would be too loud cruising in Europe at decent speeds for hours on end, but I found it eminently usable with lots go luggage space for 2. The car is epic, absolutely epic. It reads your mind and is so fun and engaging it's hard to describe, I loved everything about it. Everything. And people seemed to love it too in red with the NART stripe. It was gloriously OTT and magnificent.

I have an F12 now in Daytona Black. Much much more elegant, it is more refined for sure. The interior for me is more or less the same, same old tech but I don't mind, I probably prefer it than a million screens like the Roma which for me has no place in a Ferrari. I am quite focused when I drive those cars, it's a special moment and I don't mind having very few distractions.

Chassis-wise of course it's a different beast, you are very aware of that long bonnet but after a while things start to feel more natural, and of course everything is dominated by the engine. Oh my god the engine. It has to be experienced to be believed, and not in England, in Europe, on a good road up a mountain pass, with good visibility, good width and where you can open up a bit without the worry that 2 cars won't fit if somebody is coming the other way like in the UK in most places.

For me the F12 is mostly about the engine, but there's a balance and a friendliness to the chassis once the tyres are warm that is inviting, you can drive it in TC-off in the dry when tyres are up to 50c and not taking too many liberties you can have fun.

The Speciale on the other hand would oversteer the moment you were remotely thinking about it, it would already be sideways. Incredible feeling. And fantastic if you want to be on it.

I love both. I really do. If I had the money I would probably get back into a Speciale though as that is the car that got the most under my skin than any other car I have ever driven. But if you go F12 you won't go wrong, they are incredible value at the moment and that sound is something else, it's like F1 of the good old days out of the factory, and for me the Pininfarina design will remain a classic whilst the 812 is way too fussy and trying too hard.

It's difficult, but the reality is that you would need to spend time in both for more than the 20' test drive on some rubbish roads that the Dealers can offer you (if you can get that...). But whatever you do I beg you to take the car, drive or transport it to Italy and drive it on decent roads surrounded by people giving you the thumbs up and immediately allowing you to overtake and smiling at you. Completely different experience than driving these cars in England I have to say.

Edited by rosino on Tuesday 4th August 09:18

I completely agree with you Rosino, just had mine for 3 days and each time I drive it, gets smaller around you and that design really comes across the first time you wax it. parked next to an 812 and they are night and day the 812 has so much going on in design and over time cars don't age well when design is all over the place. I really believe they got the F12 right in so many ways.

[Fuoco]

I just purchased this end of last week couldn't be happier, most of the comments above were accurate, the car is so sublime, then wild and angry at the upper rev ranges but sounds glorious all the way. On the first day though I had to bypass the valves it was just too quiet sounds way better now.

Edited by Fuoco on Tuesday 4th August 11:01