Any TDF owners here?
Discussion
From a driver’s perspective the car is completely different to an F12 or 812. I could not stop smiling after my test drive yesterday (in the wet too). It’s a car you learn and as you do this, it rewards. An 812 is a great car but you can just get into it and drive it fast.
It fits exactly the cars I already own, and all of them get driven.
Deal done, can’t wait for it to arrive
It fits exactly the cars I already own, and all of them get driven.
Deal done, can’t wait for it to arrive
Stunning example of a TDF. Looks amazing in Giallo Triplo Strato with all the carbon. Looks like you bought Damon's old car form Octave Collection which was priced pretty realistically even before haggling. If you intend to drive it in the wet i strongly suggest you fit some K1 MP4Ss as Mr JWW has recently done to tame its spikiness when wet and cold.
Personally i'd be petrified to drive it on a regular basis but good on you for taking a more adventurous stance
Personally i'd be petrified to drive it on a regular basis but good on you for taking a more adventurous stance
AndrewD said:
From a driver’s perspective the car is completely different to an F12 or 812. I could not stop smiling after my test drive yesterday (in the wet too). It’s a car you learn and as you do this, it rewards. An 812 is a great car but you can just get into it and drive it fast.
It fits exactly the cars I already own, and all of them get driven.
Deal done, can’t wait for it to arrive
Sorry Andrew, I just look at that and think ‘Charlie Brown’ It fits exactly the cars I already own, and all of them get driven.
Deal done, can’t wait for it to arrive
Taffy66 said:
Stunning example of a TDF. Looks amazing in Giallo Triplo Strato with all the carbon. Looks like you bought Damon's old car form Octave Collection which was priced pretty realistically even before haggling. If you intend to drive it in the wet i strongly suggest you fit some K1 MP4Ss as Mr JWW has recently done to tame its spikiness when wet and cold.
Personally i'd be petrified to drive it on a regular basis but good on you for taking a more adventurous stance
Thanks Taffy - as footsoldier mentioned, unlikely to put 10,000 miles a year but will drive it whenever the mood takes. My CGT has almost 16k miles and 4.0RS on 17k miles. Did 10,000 in the 599 GTO too before I sold it, and 11,000 in the 16M. Personally i'd be petrified to drive it on a regular basis but good on you for taking a more adventurous stance
Gregor-lun1d said:
Was just going to say that's a relatively 'well known' TDF. Lovely thing. Congratulations!!
MDL111 said:
Congrats - you are not missing many of the cars I would really like to own :-)
Let us know how you get on with it
Thanks guys Let us know how you get on with it
paul0843 said:
I would agree with Chris, why should an almost 800bhp supercar be easy to drive! And to build on his comment, for me, not only is it all about the front axle but also the drivetrain. Which is just awesome. AndrewD said:
I would agree with Chris, why should an almost 800bhp supercar be easy to drive! And to build on his comment, for me, not only is it all about the front axle but also the drivetrain. Which is just awesome. if you disabled the traction control systems on a regular f12 and tuned it slightly you'd be there as the standard f12 was already a handful
WCZ said:
the only thing is that it's really easy to make a supercar hard to drive
if you disabled the traction control systems on a regular f12 and tuned it slightly you'd be there as the standard f12 was already a handful
If that’s what Ferrari were aiming for then I guess that’s what they would have done. Or simply fit space savers to the rear. Back in the day we fitted worn 6 inch ACB10’s on the back of our Caterhams too. if you disabled the traction control systems on a regular f12 and tuned it slightly you'd be there as the standard f12 was already a handful
The work they did on the chassis wasn’t to make it a handful or hard to drive, it was to sharpen the front end. The result is a car that needs you to learn to exploit it.
AndrewD said:
If that’s what Ferrari were aiming for then I guess that’s what they would have done. Or simply fit space savers to the rear. Back in the day we fitted worn 6 inch ACB10’s on the back of our Caterhams too.
The work they did on the chassis wasn’t to make it a handful or hard to drive, it was to sharpen the front end. The result is a car that needs you to learn to exploit it.
I don't think many drivers learn to exploit a car with this power. Its all down to the electronic package doing the job and in the case of the tdf Ferrari didn't do a particularly good job integrating the systems. Much like the F1 team not everything that leaves the factory is sprinkled in magic despite what sycophantic jouno's may say. The work they did on the chassis wasn’t to make it a handful or hard to drive, it was to sharpen the front end. The result is a car that needs you to learn to exploit it.
ras62 said:
I don't think many drivers learn to exploit a car with this power. Its all down to the electronic package doing the job and in the case of the tdf Ferrari didn't do a particularly good job integrating the systems. Much like the F1 team not everything that leaves the factory is sprinkled in magic despite what sycophantic jouno's may say.
In what way, specifically, in your actual experience, did they not do a good job integrating the systems? Interested in the technical details if you would care to share. AndrewD said:
In what way, specifically, in your actual experience, did they not do a good job integrating the systems? Interested in the technical details if you would care to share.
I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Rear axle steering calibration. This was Ferrari's first attempt at it and the general consensus is they didn't get it right and created a very spiky car in conjunction with the hyper quick steering.I'm interested in why you hated the 458 Speciale yet really like the TDF. Not being critical of your choice just genuinely interested to hear from an actual owner of both cars as opposed to reading reviews.
FWIW i place the TDF and CGT the two most desirable supercars from the 21st century, both of which you now own coincidentally.
Surely you either have a pure analogue car or you have a digital car.
By definition a digital car should never be “difficult to drive”. The false machismo attributed to this is bizarre. If a digital car is difficult to drive then it’s design has been poorly executed.
I doubt very much that Hamilton or Bottas get out of their digital F1 cars and demand that they are made to be more difficult to drive. Mercedes win year after year because their cars are easier to drive. They are more manageable and therefore the drivers can extract maximum performance from them.
It might sit well for TDF owners to wax lyrical about the raw, untamed power that they can learn to master - and if it elevates values too good for them. But if it’s difficult to drive then it’s flawed.
By definition a digital car should never be “difficult to drive”. The false machismo attributed to this is bizarre. If a digital car is difficult to drive then it’s design has been poorly executed.
I doubt very much that Hamilton or Bottas get out of their digital F1 cars and demand that they are made to be more difficult to drive. Mercedes win year after year because their cars are easier to drive. They are more manageable and therefore the drivers can extract maximum performance from them.
It might sit well for TDF owners to wax lyrical about the raw, untamed power that they can learn to master - and if it elevates values too good for them. But if it’s difficult to drive then it’s flawed.
AndrewD said:
In what way, specifically, in your actual experience, did they not do a good job integrating the systems? Interested in the technical details if you would care to share.
Andrew no offence here but I'm not a fan of most modern supercars. As many have said the constant uplift in power and speed is taking us down a rabbit hole. Comments on mastering these cars is far fetched, this can be easily proven by switching the electronic systems off. It would end is disaster for owner and car. So lets be clear, the human part of the drive is totally reliant upon smart electronic systems.In the case of Ferrari there is a hubris that manifests itself in not allowing criticism of their product. Journalists unsurprisingly accept this rule and integrity be damned. In the case of the TDF Ferrari first attempt at rear steering produced a car that even experienced journo's could not exploit. Was it rushed? I suspect so. Trying to predict how the systems will react is not a game in a road car in my view.
I sincerely hope you enjoy your new car but I don't share the view that it is one of the Ferrari great achievements. Like the F1 team I cant help thinking the company needs a rethink. Share price and profit are not the only driver of the marque....
OldAndTired said:
Surely you either have a pure analogue car or you have a digital car.
By definition a digital car should never be “difficult to drive”. The false machismo attributed to this is bizarre. If a digital car is difficult to drive then it’s design has been poorly executed.
I doubt very much that Hamilton or Bottas get out of their digital F1 cars and demand that they are made to be more difficult to drive. Mercedes win year after year because their cars are easier to drive. They are more manageable and therefore the drivers can extract maximum performance from them.
It might sit well for TDF owners to wax lyrical about the raw, untamed power that they can learn to master - and if it elevates values too good for them. But if it’s difficult to drive then it’s flawed.
Why do people who have no clue about the topic appear to jump into threads to add completely irrelevant nonsense? It seems so many PH threads go this way. By definition a digital car should never be “difficult to drive”. The false machismo attributed to this is bizarre. If a digital car is difficult to drive then it’s design has been poorly executed.
I doubt very much that Hamilton or Bottas get out of their digital F1 cars and demand that they are made to be more difficult to drive. Mercedes win year after year because their cars are easier to drive. They are more manageable and therefore the drivers can extract maximum performance from them.
It might sit well for TDF owners to wax lyrical about the raw, untamed power that they can learn to master - and if it elevates values too good for them. But if it’s difficult to drive then it’s flawed.
The point is, all cars these days have systems. In my view, and seemingly others who spend real money on this stuff, it is good to see manufacturers trying different things and producing cars with different characteristics. Nobody is talking about being macho but you.
This started as a simple question to other owners. If anybody wants to rubbish the car, I’d like to hear it if you are an owner. Otherwise, seriously, why bother posting all this made up crap?
WTF have formula 1 cars got to do with anything either? They are cars built to regulations, to win races. They aren’t road cars. And followed to its logical conclusion all the cars I own would all drive the same. How imaginative that would be.
I guess this is why we haven’t seen any owners posting. I will follow their lead - guys you are welcome to the thread and the forum.
Edited by AndrewD on Tuesday 3rd November 09:36
Edited by AndrewD on Tuesday 3rd November 09:38
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