Every day tips for living with a 599
Discussion
So today was disappointing. Went to Bedford Autodrome on the GT circuit with MSV. Unfortunately the donkey proved to be very expensive as it would not pass noise testing.
Just off idle it gave 104 dB and over 4.5k gave 108 dB!
Seriously, it's not that noisy,
at least on the inside. It really does quiet GT so well.
I want to do at least one trackday in it. But I'm wary of an un-silenced day and being on circuit with full on aero race cars.
Spa is not too far and it's 108 dB
Next was scary. On the way home the car pulled power and threw up a catalytic converter fault. Usual off/on fixed it but it's worrying.
Just off idle it gave 104 dB and over 4.5k gave 108 dB!
Seriously, it's not that noisy,
at least on the inside. It really does quiet GT so well.I want to do at least one trackday in it. But I'm wary of an un-silenced day and being on circuit with full on aero race cars.
Spa is not too far and it's 108 dB
Next was scary. On the way home the car pulled power and threw up a catalytic converter fault. Usual off/on fixed it but it's worrying.
DeejRC said:
Is this your first Italian car cake?
Yes, I've not even had an Alfa. Mostly Scoobys before running a Caterham as my only car for two years. Kept the Caterham and got a CLA 45 shootingbrake for a while which I loved and now a GT86.Though, when I was just starting I did have an Opel Monnza and a Renault Laguna, both of which cost less that 500 quid.
So today has turned into a bad one. Beautiful day, early morning drive, empty roads, so switched to race on the Manetino, making some progress when am engine warning light comes on.
No worries, pull over, and carry out off/on giving lots of time between ignition on and engine on. Fault won't clear. Okay, let the car cool, tried again, no success. Called Maranello Service and they said call Ferrari assistance.
Unfortunately Ferrari assistance will not take the car to my preferred dealer so it is going to Nottingham. Hopefully the service is as good there.
No worries, pull over, and carry out off/on giving lots of time between ignition on and engine on. Fault won't clear. Okay, let the car cool, tried again, no success. Called Maranello Service and they said call Ferrari assistance.
Unfortunately Ferrari assistance will not take the car to my preferred dealer so it is going to Nottingham. Hopefully the service is as good there.
DeejRC said:
Alas Cake, now you know why Italian car ownership is a “thing”.
Basically…this is normal. Sorry. If you are lucky, the experiences add up to eventually provide you the cure, otherwise known as Porsche. If you are unlucky you never learn and decide that perhaps other Italian cars are better and before you know it you are exploring Alfas, Lancias…
I'm thinking I got the man maths wrong and should have got an F12!Basically…this is normal. Sorry. If you are lucky, the experiences add up to eventually provide you the cure, otherwise known as Porsche. If you are unlucky you never learn and decide that perhaps other Italian cars are better and before you know it you are exploring Alfas, Lancias…
DeejRC said:
Oh. You want to double down and increase your Donkey exposure? Outstanding that man! Welcome to the Italian logic club 
It's very logical The initial diagnosis by GreyPaul Nottingham is air flow sensor failure. Along with the previous air temperature failure. All the these sensor failures have generally been in race mode with the car being enjoyed. I think if I had used the car less and treated the car as gently as the previous owners it may have been years before I saw any of these problems. But the car is 14 years old. There's age related degradation / wear. Now the car is being used more, used harder, it's accelerating the failures.
So the logic which I know you get, is spend more money, buy a younger F12 that can take the abuse.
One problem.
My other thought is to use the 599 more and harder, get all the failures cleared up, cross my fingers that the New Power Warranty covers them and have a solid car. Keep it and get another donkey. They are herd animals after all and prefer a stable mate!
willy wombat said:
I think you’ve been a bit unlucky. I ran a 599 for 13 years and apart from two shocks and a transporter driver ruining the clutch (covered in an earlier post) all it had was routine maintenance BUT the service schedule was followed precisely at a main dealer I trust, even if on some occasions the car had done a very low mileage between services. My 599 was used hard quite often. We did the Mille Miglia tribute and a number of other events in Italy and also a number of track days. Talking of which (referring to your earlier post) I didn’t normally have a problem with passing the noise tests. However on one occasion, and I’m going to be deliberately vague here, i failed the noise test. The event was being supported by a Ferrari main dealer who had mechanics on site. I took the car to them and they tied shut the valves (or whatever - tech types will know) on the exhaust. The car then passed the noise test, after which the mechanics undid what they had done and the day passed uneventfully.
I think you’re best to carry on using the car hard (but not abusing it) and hope that you get all the latent problems resolved and then have a reliable car.
The only other thing I would add is that while I may have spent more than some (many?) sticking fastidiously to the Ferrari service schedule, it really paid dividends when I sold the car last year for quite a bit more than I expected.
Thanks WW!I think you’re best to carry on using the car hard (but not abusing it) and hope that you get all the latent problems resolved and then have a reliable car.
The only other thing I would add is that while I may have spent more than some (many?) sticking fastidiously to the Ferrari service schedule, it really paid dividends when I sold the car last year for quite a bit more than I expected.
WCZ said:
you've been unlucky thereMaybe it is back luck.
I don't think I have a 'bad' 599, just one that needs some shaking out of the hidden gremlins through a combination of use and maintenance (as WW has stated). I don't think that my 599 has been as meticulously maintained as yours WW but it has a very good service history, serviced almost annually in its 14 years and did not miss a service in the last 7 with the two previous owners. I also think that just plugging in the computer and clearing the faults has been a mistake and gave a false sense of minor issues that could be lived with. These 'minor' faults have been indicative of something more major that needed further investigation and replacement of degenerated equipment / sensors.
The exhaust noise is probably down to the valves opening and 5.5k revlimit for the noise test as well as the strict regs at Bedford. I have thought about getting a valve controller installed as there is no exhaust button. But maybe putting it in ice mode on the Manettino would keep the valves closed at higher revs? Certainly the 98 dB drive by noise limit at Donnington did not cause any problems.
I am hoping that once some more 'Italian tune up' has been completed the 599 will be taking me to Germany in April for a trip to Sachsenring and Nurburgring via the Ruhr Dams and Colditz.
Three trips on the back of a low loader have not taken the shine off yet. We'll see if the bill for the repair does
So GreyPaul have already made an assessment of the problems with the 599. It is basically down to the engine oil being overfilled and getting sucked into the intake manifold and damaging both sensors. This is a £2,300 repair plus oil and filter change.
So I am pretty sure that I have no recourse as there is no way to prove I didn't top up the engine oil, or prove that there has been no work done to the car since it's last service at Stratstone, or that the last service was the result of the overfilled engine oil.
So I am pretty sure that I have no recourse as there is no way to prove I didn't top up the engine oil, or prove that there has been no work done to the car since it's last service at Stratstone, or that the last service was the result of the overfilled engine oil.
F355GTS said:
very common problem, happened to mine as overfilled by HR Owen, there was so much oil in mine it was running out of the front wing vents and down the wings!.
Managed to get it done under warranty. At some point, 2010?, there was a revised filling procedure (very convoluted) for topping up oil on the 599
Managed to get it done under warranty. At some point, 2010?, there was a revised filling procedure (very convoluted) for topping up oil on the 599
I also think that because the car has been run to the limiter this exacerbated the problems resulting from the over fill.
GreyPaul have been good on the phone, they are going to check the service history with Stratstone and see if they will accept some of the cost. Anyway, no warranty for this but I am glad that there is an obvious and easily rectified solution. Hopefully there are not more problems because of the excess oil.
On a lighter note, Ferrari assistance have been great. I've been given a hire car for a week, Merc E class and I have to say I am very impressed, especially with the MBUX system. But way too many buttons on the steering wheel. Interestingly if I had brought the car in for a service the courtesy car would be fiat 500!
So as expected Stratstone in Manchester have denied any responsibility stating that any failure would have happened in 20 miles. The fact is the car was giving faults straight away but these were incorrectly assumed to be battery related.
Nevermind.
On a separate issue I have found that the car likes to under steer, which I attribute a lot to the tyre setup (245 on the front and 305 on the rear).
It's nice and safe and manageable on the road but I'd like something that is more positive on turn in, especially when I go on track. In discussing this with David at GreyPaul he said that in the Ferrari database there are generally 3-4 different geometries available able for each car and he will see what options are available for the 599.
For the gearbox I've never been too happy with how the car shifts, especially in race mode. As the gearbox ECU has a learning mode, GreyPaul will do this and clear the historical data so when I drive it next, it will be a newborn donkey. I wonder if it will be capable of dual personality and if it learns better in Auto or Manual?
Nevermind.
On a separate issue I have found that the car likes to under steer, which I attribute a lot to the tyre setup (245 on the front and 305 on the rear).
It's nice and safe and manageable on the road but I'd like something that is more positive on turn in, especially when I go on track. In discussing this with David at GreyPaul he said that in the Ferrari database there are generally 3-4 different geometries available able for each car and he will see what options are available for the 599.
For the gearbox I've never been too happy with how the car shifts, especially in race mode. As the gearbox ECU has a learning mode, GreyPaul will do this and clear the historical data so when I drive it next, it will be a newborn donkey. I wonder if it will be capable of dual personality and if it learns better in Auto or Manual?
Edited by cake eater on Wednesday 16th March 11:57
belfry said:
Cake eater, I bought a Ferrari that had not been used much for about 3 years. I had to pay the price for this as I started to use the car regularly and drive the car in a spirited manner.
It was dull items like windscreen jets blocked with rust, brittle hoses and wires, blocked brake lines etc. So nothing major but annoying niggles.
Most of these items could be fixed at home in my garage, but I shudder at the thought of trailering the car to a Ferrari main dealer for each of these items.
I’d suggest taking the car to a Ferrari independent specialist and ask them to go through the car to take care of the issues caused by lack of use. Over the years I’ve used Ferrari main dealers and Ferrari independents and they both have roles for Ferrari owners. My experience is that main dealers are less likely to be prepared to do preventative maintenance, preferring to replace parts instead.
Then you need to drive the car regularly. Ferraris tucked away in storage are just building up problems. They benefit from being used.
Hi Belfry,It was dull items like windscreen jets blocked with rust, brittle hoses and wires, blocked brake lines etc. So nothing major but annoying niggles.
Most of these items could be fixed at home in my garage, but I shudder at the thought of trailering the car to a Ferrari main dealer for each of these items.
I’d suggest taking the car to a Ferrari independent specialist and ask them to go through the car to take care of the issues caused by lack of use. Over the years I’ve used Ferrari main dealers and Ferrari independents and they both have roles for Ferrari owners. My experience is that main dealers are less likely to be prepared to do preventative maintenance, preferring to replace parts instead.
Then you need to drive the car regularly. Ferraris tucked away in storage are just building up problems. They benefit from being used.
Thank you for sharing and I have pretty much tried to do as you recommended. When I was researching 599 ownership one area I looked at was independent Ferrari specialists as some other owners had shared their experience of dealer service quality. Having said that I do feel that Maranello and GreyPaul have provided me with a good service. Stratstone who did the last service and warranty inspection I will be avoiding.
I narrowed the independents down to 3 based on forum recommendations and location. When I started calling these independents they recommenced Mark at MDL specialist cars to look after the 599. For various reasons I wasn't able to get a PPI done so after purchasing the car I took it to MDL for an inspection. They identified a couple of things that needed to be addressed (missed on the warranty inspection). The car was supposed to go to them at the beginning of April to have these items replaced with Hill's Engineering parts. Unfortunately because of the engine oil overfill and work calling me back early, I'll miss that appointment.
The car came with one year Ferrari New Power Warranty which included Ferrari Assistance. So where required for warranty, I will use the dealer network, otherwise I intend to have MDL look after the car. For breakdown I'll look to get Ferrari assistance again as you get priority for recovery and also priority at the dealership for repair work.
I do intend to use the car regularly. Unfortunately work and travel restrictions mean that my car will spend months at a time in the garage on a trickle charger.
So GreyPaul have been great and should have the car done today. I am waiting for them to call and confirm I can collect the car.
They have been very good agreeing to install Hill's Engineering parts including 20mm spacers. Only issue is the more aggressive geo I requested, the cost for them to do this is 1000 + VAT so I have said no.
I will get it done by my preferred suspension place https://centergravity.co.uk/ or https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/
They have been very good agreeing to install Hill's Engineering parts including 20mm spacers. Only issue is the more aggressive geo I requested, the cost for them to do this is 1000 + VAT so I have said no.
I will get it done by my preferred suspension place https://centergravity.co.uk/ or https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/
jw673 said:
Same dealer (albeit with a V8): Serviced, then a few weeks later returned for something unrelated.
As part of the (standard) Health Check it was declared that the oil had been overfilled; nobody had been anywhere near the oil since the service.
Paying Ferrari main dealer rates for an oil'n'filter is one thing - but when even that isn't done correctly
Very frustrating and why my car won't be going there again.As part of the (standard) Health Check it was declared that the oil had been overfilled; nobody had been anywhere near the oil since the service.
Paying Ferrari main dealer rates for an oil'n'filter is one thing - but when even that isn't done correctly
willy wombat said:
I appreciate this is a bit late but I think you let Stratstone off the hook a little to easily. As you’ve no intention of using them again, you could have threatened to complain to Ferrari North Europe (and you could still do that). I have found FNE surprisingly helpful in the past.
Hi WW,I know that you are right. I did not know that I have further recourse through FNE. Something I will remember for the future. I know that when the problem was identified I looked at my options, what the dealer would say in response, so I was expecting the denial. Along with my limited ability to to prove who carried out the overfill, I had already given up on the dealer paying out. I just wanted them to know and hope that the service department would check their procedures and speak to the technician to ensure that it was not done again, even though they denied responsibility. Vain hope probably.
Collected the 599 this afternoon. I was expecting a substantial hit on the credit card for the repair and additional service work that I requested. But it was not as bad as expected. Amazing how you can be charged a small fortune 
and come away thinking that you had value for money
They had parked the 599 in front of reception. As I walked out, I thought, that is a very nice 599, wonder where they parked mine. Then the realisation it was mine and that moment of 'I am so lucky'. A quick walk around and more smiles even though the credit card was crying. Jump in and set the driving position, pressing 1 on the seat memory.
Yes, my car!
Ignition on. Wait that little bit more after the blue check light it out for the LCD dash to change and confirm full start up checks completed.
Press the red button and more smiles.
Wait for the engine check light to go out and LCD dash to change again.
Pull the right paddle back.
Consider showing off but the devil inside says 'you'll cock it up and end up going through the dealers window!'
Pull away gently, still smiling.
So the 599 is back at home with Hill's Engineering 20mm spacers installed.
I had been reading a thread on Ferrarichat https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/599-gtb-... and decided on 20mm which Mark at MDL had also recommended. I think the rear looks a little too 'full' in the arch but it is okay.
I am not sure if it is a placebo effect but the steering feel seems to have changed, geo is standard 599 but with the 20mm spacer it seems more weighty, turn in better.
I also think that it is pulling harder. There is a nice section of the A5012 that is quiet, has tight second gear corners but the road has some space then it opens out with much faster open and often well sighted corners. Just left it in sport mode and it just felt so fast! It reminded me of when I changed from a 600cc to a 1000cc sportsbike, the acceleration is just relentless. So much so I am braking way too early. I am still struggling with getting a feel for the brakes, but they need a lot of heat and I just don't want to be taking that much risk. I'll need a few trackdays to get more confident.
The gearbox however is definitely different. The car is much better pulling away in 1st. 2nd and 3rd still thump home but 4, 5 and 6 are noticeably smoother. When in F1-S mode the changes are so much more aggressive and no hesitation to give a gear when I use the paddles. It's so aggressive I am very wary when changing up on corners that are opening up and the throttle is still buried but the revs demand a gear.
Best of all no faults on the dash.
and come away thinking that you had value for money They had parked the 599 in front of reception. As I walked out, I thought, that is a very nice 599, wonder where they parked mine. Then the realisation it was mine and that moment of 'I am so lucky'. A quick walk around and more smiles even though the credit card was crying. Jump in and set the driving position, pressing 1 on the seat memory.
Yes, my car!
Ignition on. Wait that little bit more after the blue check light it out for the LCD dash to change and confirm full start up checks completed.
Press the red button and more smiles.
Wait for the engine check light to go out and LCD dash to change again.
Pull the right paddle back.
Consider showing off but the devil inside says 'you'll cock it up and end up going through the dealers window!'
Pull away gently, still smiling.
So the 599 is back at home with Hill's Engineering 20mm spacers installed.
I had been reading a thread on Ferrarichat https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/599-gtb-... and decided on 20mm which Mark at MDL had also recommended. I think the rear looks a little too 'full' in the arch but it is okay.
I am not sure if it is a placebo effect but the steering feel seems to have changed, geo is standard 599 but with the 20mm spacer it seems more weighty, turn in better.
I also think that it is pulling harder. There is a nice section of the A5012 that is quiet, has tight second gear corners but the road has some space then it opens out with much faster open and often well sighted corners. Just left it in sport mode and it just felt so fast! It reminded me of when I changed from a 600cc to a 1000cc sportsbike, the acceleration is just relentless. So much so I am braking way too early. I am still struggling with getting a feel for the brakes, but they need a lot of heat and I just don't want to be taking that much risk. I'll need a few trackdays to get more confident.
The gearbox however is definitely different. The car is much better pulling away in 1st. 2nd and 3rd still thump home but 4, 5 and 6 are noticeably smoother. When in F1-S mode the changes are so much more aggressive and no hesitation to give a gear when I use the paddles. It's so aggressive I am very wary when changing up on corners that are opening up and the throttle is still buried but the revs demand a gear.
Best of all no faults on the dash.
roboR said:
Wonderful car, and wonderful thread! Enjoyed reading from start to finish.
Toyed with the idea of a 599 last year but was worried about potential problems ruining the enjoyment but seems like it's so good nothing can stop that.
For what it's worth I agree with your earlier post on keeping it and sorting things. I've always had that mentality with cars and bikes as once they're sorted at least you know it's unlikely to happen again. Devil that you know... and all that.
Love the colour also
Hi roboR,Toyed with the idea of a 599 last year but was worried about potential problems ruining the enjoyment but seems like it's so good nothing can stop that.
For what it's worth I agree with your earlier post on keeping it and sorting things. I've always had that mentality with cars and bikes as once they're sorted at least you know it's unlikely to happen again. Devil that you know... and all that.
Love the colour also
Thanks, it really is an amazing car
Yesterday started with an Electrical system failure warning light on the dash. So I called GreyPaul and emailed them after the call just to be sure that it is recorded in case there is the same problem as last time.
When I spoke to the service department they said that this is 99% related to low battery voltage, this particular fault is triggered when the ECU sees less than 12.4V. A restart of the car will clear the memory and it should be fine.
Obviously I was not happy with this answer. I said that this is what I was told before getting a £2,300 bill for engine oil overfill and resulting sensor damage. The car has been on a ctek overnight. Since collecting the car it has been driven for 1.5 hours over almost 50 miles including some Italian tune up, I don't believe that the battery has lost voltage. I never got that warning when taking the car from the dealership.
His response was that for this particular waring message, all they would do it put the car on a charger and give it back to me once the battery test says 100%. He also said that the ctek would need longer than overnight to charge the battery fully and driving the car (hard) doesn't charge the battery in the same way as other cars as Ferraris don't work that way.
Any way. . . . We will see.
Today, No faults. A quick morning drive in race mode with gearbox in manual. (Previously I had seen more ECU /electrical faults with the manettino in this setting and the gearbox more truculent in manual)
Thankfully everything was smooth, no issues. As for the car feeling faster. It is definitely faster. Scarily, thrillingly so!
When I spoke to the service department they said that this is 99% related to low battery voltage, this particular fault is triggered when the ECU sees less than 12.4V. A restart of the car will clear the memory and it should be fine.
Obviously I was not happy with this answer. I said that this is what I was told before getting a £2,300 bill for engine oil overfill and resulting sensor damage. The car has been on a ctek overnight. Since collecting the car it has been driven for 1.5 hours over almost 50 miles including some Italian tune up, I don't believe that the battery has lost voltage. I never got that warning when taking the car from the dealership.
His response was that for this particular waring message, all they would do it put the car on a charger and give it back to me once the battery test says 100%. He also said that the ctek would need longer than overnight to charge the battery fully and driving the car (hard) doesn't charge the battery in the same way as other cars as Ferraris don't work that way.
Any way. . . . We will see.
Today, No faults. A quick morning drive in race mode with gearbox in manual. (Previously I had seen more ECU /electrical faults with the manettino in this setting and the gearbox more truculent in manual)
Thankfully everything was smooth, no issues. As for the car feeling faster. It is definitely faster. Scarily, thrillingly so!
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