Running a Ferrari V12 isn’t that expensive

[928 GTS]

Having looked in to 550 spare prices lately most of the stull isn't that extra ordinarily expensive compared to for example certain not that exotic Porsche models like 928. Service items like filters, many hoses etc. when bought from independent shops like Eurospares are even unusually reasonable. But if something what usually lasts cars most or entire life of car is needed then it can get very expensive quickly. Doing cambelts etc. normal service is fully doable by owner as long as person has good understanding of what is required. Willingness to read manuals and learning out stuff goes long way. Then there are those who shouldn't work on them. For example below 20+ part video series shows multiple mistakes like taking alternator adjustment roller off without loosening belt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U4YXHbhNCE

[blueSL]

Not sure the series of videos - I only got to part 6 - will convince anyone this is a job to do at home, certainly not me. I don’t know much but I know enough to realise I could quickly get out of my depth…

[DeejRC]

You would have to be a mechanic, single or have the most patient,understanding,brow beaten wife in history to tell her: don’t worry, I’m doing the work on our £100k motor on our driveway and it will all work perfectly by teatime.

Because in my long experience of first my mother, my mother in law and then my own wife - there is not a chance in hell such things are tolerated without a SIGNIFICANT amount of ear bending grief.

[cake eater]

DeejRC said:

You would have to be a mechanic, single or have the most patient,understanding,brow beaten wife in history to tell her: don’t worry, I’m doing the work on our £100k motor on our driveway and it will all work perfectly by teatime.

Because in my long experience of first my mother, my mother in law and then my own wife - there is not a chance in hell such things are tolerated without a SIGNIFICANT amount of ear bending grief.

This made me laugh! So many times! Ear bending is the least of it

[sone]

Running costs should be based on cost per mile or at least a combination of time and miles. Too many times I’ve heard people spout “I’ve only spent a few quid running my Lambo, Ferrari or what ever over the last few years” to go onto say I’ve covered 1000 miles a year. I mean ffs at that sort of mileage it’s not worth having! I decided I wouldn’t run a super car without warranty about 10 years ago following a near 20k rebuild cost on a 360 without warranty. I’ve had 5.5k service bills on Lambo’s and nothing less than 1500 quid. So for me with that and depreciation man maths is having a bit of a laugh.

[kbf1981]

DeejRC said:

It’s the reason (ok a part of the reason) I argued with myself that an F12 under the 7yr Ferrari deal would be “cheaper” than an older F12 or a 599. I was absolutely sure a big bill would be thrown at me.

Currently debating this.

100k 599 or 180k F12 - F12 definitely more expensive as you've got some more depreciation, but not sure how much more. 599 you've got 15k dealer margin in, same as F12, F12s I'd guess will bottom out at £130k?

[cgt2]

f1ten said:

Not true on the brakes, I sourced replacement ceramics from Germany for £3k and had them fitted by my Ferrari specialist who has the diagnostic tools to reset.

[ANOpax]

kbf1981 said:

Currently debating this.

100k 599 or 180k F12 - F12 definitely more expensive as you've got some more depreciation, but not sure how much more. 599 you've got 15k dealer margin in, same as F12, F12s I'd guess will bottom out at £130k?

We've been here before, pre-pandemic. IIRC, F12s bottomed at £150k and 599s around £90k (they briefly touched £145k and £85k during the early part of the pandemic but not many traded at that price and it wasn't really a normal market). However, with the world the way it is and inflation doing what it does, I don't think we'll be seeing the pre-pandemic levels again so I suspect that your £130k suggestion is a little optimistic if you're waiting to buy one.

We've just bought an F12 for my wife and paid nearly 20% more than we could have done pre-pandemic for a higher mileage and worse spec car. However, beggars can't be choosers and supply has dried up. With 812 values on the rise as well and the perception that the F12 is a better looker, I really don't see F12 values softening so that's why we've taken the plunge now. I don't think that there will be much increase F12 supply in the future either as it's an old enough car that it can no longer be easily bought on finance so most of the ones which have sold in the last few years will have found long term homes rather than 1-2yr PCP owners.

But may I suggest you start a new topic on this rather than taking this 'running cost' thread off-topic? You'll reach a larger audience too.

[POORCARDEALER]

My old 456 was a 1999 - I had every single bill from new , car had never had any catastrophic failures and had covered 66000 miles and was always serviced on time - total spent in 21 years was £85k - this did not include fuel or insurance, but did include £7k’s worth of trimming. Most of the work was carried out by specialists once she was 5 years old

Edited by POORCARDEALER on Wednesday 15th June 20:24

[G-wiz]

POORCARDEALER said:

My old 456 was a 1999 - I had every single bill from new , car had never had any catastrophic failures and had covered 66000 miles and was always serviced on time - total spent in 21 years was £85k - this did not include fuel or insurance, but did include £7k’s worth of trimming. Most of the work was carried out by specialists once she was 5 years old

Edited by POORCARDEALER on Wednesday 15th June 20:24

So £4k on average per annum. Which I don't deem to be unreasonable.

[thatdude]

Mr Spoon said:

Any thoughts on spannering yourself?

There's plenty of people out there that do it, and plenty of people have found that certain Ferrari-branded replacement parts are just the same as non-ferrari replacement parts, but the Ferrari-branded part costs way, way more.

It depends on what plans you have about ownership. Looking to keep it for the foreseeable and not fussed about resale value? Then why not give it a go. It's only nuts and bolts. You would be wise to see if you can get access to factory servicing and repair information, and you would be wise to use genuine parts given the savings you'd have made not paying a Ferrari service centre lots of labour. Keep up good documentation (receipts, dates, any other notes) and if you had to part with the car, accept that you will get less for it (but also know that will be offset by the savings you made working on it yourself).

You will need access to proprietary Ferrari software, I imagine.

[fflump]

POORCARDEALER said:

My old 456 was a 1999 - I had every single bill from new , car had never had any catastrophic failures and had covered 66000 miles and was always serviced on time - total spent in 21 years was £85k - this did not include fuel or insurance, but did include £7k’s worth of trimming. Most of the work was carried out by specialists once she was 5 years old

Edited by POORCARDEALER on Wednesday 15th June 20:24

I am considering a 456GT (i.e. manual) and have a specialist just round the corner.

My gut tells me that a decent example may be more straightforward to maintain than a 612 F1 or a Cali, once a PPI has given the 456 (inc. steel chassis) a decent bill of health, having less complex transmission and electrics.

Is this flawed thinking? I'd like to keep annual maintenance costs in 4 figures on average even if the odd shocker gets thrown up.

[belfry]

fflump said:

I am considering a 456GT (i.e. manual) and have a specialist just round the corner.

My gut tells me that a decent example may be more straightforward to maintain than a 612 F1 or a Cali, once a PPI has given the 456 (inc. steel chassis) a decent bill of health, having less complex transmission and electrics.

Is this flawed thinking? I'd like to keep annual maintenance costs in 4 figures on average even if the odd shocker gets thrown up.

I have been running a 1995 456GT with 60,000 miles for a couple of years. I love the lack of too much software in the system. In contrast to my previous 612, when something stops working I can usually fix it in my garage at home. The car had stood around for a few years before I bought it, and my troubles have been with lack of use by the previous owner (200 miles in 5 years).

I have changed the alternator and the ac compressor myself, together with fabricating 12 new HT leads using the original Ferrari logo rubber end boots. Both the alternator and AC compressor were repaired/remanufactured for a few hundred pounds each. The correct 7mm copper core silicone HT lead was about £30 for enough for all 12 leads.

For me, part of the fun of owning an older car is the joy that I get from working on a classic V12 Ferrari. I don't need expensive computers for this at all for the 456. If I had to take it to a Ferrari MD every time a warning light comes on this would reduce my ownership experience.

I am now happy to drive the car to Europe on a trip without too much worry.

[POORCARDEALER]

[quote=fflump]

I am considering a 456GT (i.e. manual) and have a specialist just round the corner.

My gut tells me that a decent example may be more straightforward to maintain than a 612 F1 or a Cali, once a PPI has given the 456 (inc. steel chassis) a decent bill of health, having less complex transmission and electrics.

Is this flawed thinking? I'd like to keep annual maintenance costs in 4 figures on average even if the odd shocker gets thrown up.


[/quote

Yes they are fixable and quite analogue - there are some electronic modules on them , airbag, central locking etc but they are plug & play.

The manual cars seem to rising in value again, I still think they are undervalued currently, particularly the GTAs

[fflump]

belfry said:

I have been running a 1995 456GT with 60,000 miles for a couple of years. I love the lack of too much software in the system. In contrast to my previous 612, when something stops working I can usually fix it in my garage at home. The car had stood around for a few years before I bought it, and my troubles have been with lack of use by the previous owner (200 miles in 5 years).

I have changed the alternator and the ac compressor myself, together with fabricating 12 new HT leads using the original Ferrari logo rubber end boots. Both the alternator and AC compressor were repaired/remanufactured for a few hundred pounds each. The correct 7mm copper core silicone HT lead was about £30 for enough for all 12 leads.

For me, part of the fun of owning an older car is the joy that I get from working on a classic V12 Ferrari. I don't need expensive computers for this at all for the 456. If I had to take it to a Ferrari MD every time a warning light comes on this would reduce my ownership experience.

I am now happy to drive the car to Europe on a trip without too much worry.

Thanks for taking the time to reply and good to hear your experience chimes with my hunch. While I don't have the time or skills to DIY there is an excellent and reasonably priced specialist nearby who looked after my Maserati Coupe very well and works on 456s regularly.

[fflump]

POORCARDEALER]flump said:

I am considering a 456GT (i.e. manual) and have a specialist just round the corner.

My gut tells me that a decent example may be more straightforward to maintain than a 612 F1 or a Cali, once a PPI has given the 456 (inc. steel chassis) a decent bill of health, having less complex transmission and electrics.

Is this flawed thinking? I'd like to keep annual maintenance costs in 4 figures on average even if the odd shocker gets thrown up.


[/quote

Yes they are fixable and quite analogue - there are some electronic modules on them , airbag, central locking etc but they are plug & play.

The manual cars seem to rising in value again, I still think they are undervalued currently, particularly the GTAs

Yeah the analogue nature appeals especially in manual form. A manual 612 is still north of £100k and the 456 is more elegant IMHO. The GTAs (i.e. automatics) are cheap true but I guess a 30 yr old 4-speed auto box based on modification of 45 year-old tech developed for the 400 series is going to have limited appeal.

While asking prices have risen compared to a few years ago you do see the same 456s for sale month in month out-auction results suggest the GTAs rarely break through £40k level.

[ChocolateFrog]

cake eater said:

DeejRC said:

You would have to be a mechanic, single or have the most patient,understanding,brow beaten wife in history to tell her: don’t worry, I’m doing the work on our £100k motor on our driveway and it will all work perfectly by teatime.

Because in my long experience of first my mother, my mother in law and then my own wife - there is not a chance in hell such things are tolerated without a SIGNIFICANT amount of ear bending grief.

This made me laugh! So many times! Ear bending is the least of it

That's very easily mitigated by fixing and servicing the better half's car at no cost to them.

Give and take.

[POORCARDEALER]

fflump said:

Yeah the analogue nature appeals especially in manual form. A manual 612 is still north of £100k and the 456 is more elegant IMHO. The GTAs (i.e. automatics) are cheap true but I guess a 30 yr old 4-speed auto box based on modification of 45 year-old tech developed for the 400 series is going to have limited appeal.

While asking prices have risen compared to a few years ago you do see the same 456s for sale month in month out-auction results suggest the GTAs rarely break through £40k level.

There was a beautiful 15k miles GTAm sold earlier this year for £50k all in at an auction - to me that was a bargain, as with a manual gearbox in “m” form, with those miles that would be an 80/90k car .

[fflump]

POORCARDEALER said:

fflump said:

Yeah the analogue nature appeals especially in manual form. A manual 612 is still north of £100k and the 456 is more elegant IMHO. The GTAs (i.e. automatics) are cheap true but I guess a 30 yr old 4-speed auto box based on modification of 45 year-old tech developed for the 400 series is going to have limited appeal.

While asking prices have risen compared to a few years ago you do see the same 456s for sale month in month out-auction results suggest the GTAs rarely break through £40k level.

There was a beautiful 15k miles GTAm sold earlier this year for £50k all in at an auction - to me that was a bargain, as with a manual gearbox in “m” form, with those miles that would be an 80/90k car .

An ‘m’ manual RHD? Probably no more than 100 even rolled off the production line. How many in the UK? At that frequency the price is stochastic though I’d be wary of a car that’s done 15k in 25 yrs. A nice example that does 2k pa would do me fine !

[DeejRC]

ChocolateFrog said:

cake eater said:

DeejRC said:

You would have to be a mechanic, single or have the most patient,understanding,brow beaten wife in history to tell her: don’t worry, I’m doing the work on our £100k motor on our driveway and it will all work perfectly by teatime.

Because in my long experience of first my mother, my mother in law and then my own wife - there is not a chance in hell such things are tolerated without a SIGNIFICANT amount of ear bending grief.

This made me laugh! So many times! Ear bending is the least of it

That's very easily mitigated by fixing and servicing the better half's car at no cost to them.

Give and take.

It really really really isnt Frog!