Potential 599 purchase

[Monkeybiz101]

f1ten said:

Good debate on the pluses and minuses! I keep thinking would I swap my 430 for a 599 (only driven a 599 once back in 07). I remember being blown away by the acceleration and noise was incredible. However I like the way the 430 sits and corners and it is Slimer even on our A roads I get the feeling the 599 feels big. So like others have said that then brings you to discuss the FF.

Maybe we are in different times and there won't be a crash that sees all supercars with pennies and 4 seat Ferraris were undesirable.
Let's be honest though if you ask a kid what do they like more a supercar shape or the hatchback FF ... It's never going to be seen as pretty. Not sure how much that would annoy me staring back at the FF shape. I will quote a moan dealer technician, never own an FF outside of power warranty ... But sounds like I need to try one of them as again the engine is sublime and I like the interior.

Having run a 911 Turbo for 15 years, I took the plunge on an FF a couple of years ago. I have to say it was the best move I have made. I can transport a family of four with proper luggage, which was impossible in the 911 (no one but me wanted to go in it), and it is a better drive when pushing on. I would struggle to put 500 miles a year on the 911, given lack of opportunity, whereas I put c.3k on the FF pa. For me the FF means I can take the car on family trips and then enjoy it tout seul when I arrive…it’s all about flexibility / usability. A two seat Ferrari may be prettier, but if you rarely use it….

[21ATS]

ANOpax said:

f1ten said:

I will quote a moan (sic) dealer technician, never own an FF outside of power warranty ...

A couple of issues need to be addressed here in what seems to be an oft repeated but little understood bit of internet lore;

1 Ferrari’s New Power warranty is very poor value as there are so many exemptions and exclusions that it effectively only covers catastrophic failures of the engine or gearbox.

2 The only major difference between the FF and the F12 is the PTU. This is probably what the main dealer technician meant when suggesting that an FF shouldn’t be run without a warranty. Once upon a time, a PTU failure was an invitation to a £25k bill for a replacement PTU. Those days are gone as the PTU can be rebuilt and improved (to eliminate the inherent design weakness) by SS Autotech or Furlongers for a comparatively reasonable £8-10k. Their solution is so successful that Ferrari is allegedly developing a similar fix.

So, to summarise, running an FF without a warranty is a completely viable proposition and not much riskier than running any other Ferrari without a warranty.

Edited by ANOpax on Friday 15th July 02:04

I have a deposit on the Grigio Titanio FF that's currently with GVE. It's booked into Joe Macari next week for an inspection.

During the conversation with the tech booking it in he explained that these cars are now just reliable and the only weak point is the PTU. As mentioned above, Ferrari imminently have a fix kit for the PTU that effectively makes it a 10K problem not a replacement.

He also said in the all years he's been working on these cars he's never had to replace a V12 engine. Not one. The perception of these cars as delicate problems is no longer realistic. Sure they're expensive, but they are now a great deal better then pre 458 cars.

[lambo666]

Fingers crossed if you are buying from there, they spend lots and lots on marketing, but the aftersales is pretty much the worst in the business!!

[markiii]

Any company stupid enough to associate with verdi wouldn't be getting my momey

[21ATS]

My understanding is they are an SOR dealer. Certainly the car I'm looking at is being sold on that basis.

Personally I treat that as a private sale with some legal backup if there's a really fundamental problem.

I'm getting the car inspected by Ferrari, if it's right I'll buy it, if it's not I won't. I'm paying for the inspection, so I get the full report. It has full Ferrari Service History and has Ferrari extended warranty.

I've read some reports on here of the dealer in question and other dealers also. In most cases when you look at the picture as a whole it's often people jumping in and buying without doing correct due diligence then having a good whinge when it goes wrong.

The car is either a good one or it's not, it's in my interest to make sure what I'm buying is sound, so I don't assume any problems would be addressed after the event. If there are any, they need to be addressed before I part with my money.

Edited by 21ATS on Tuesday 19th July 08:33

[lambo666]

I totally agree with you're purchase process, I just wanted to make you aware of their reputation.
Hopefully it all works out, and you get a good car.
Please keep us informed of how it all goes. Good or Bad!
From 2 people I have met from 2 totally seperate driving groups, it is the aftersales issues they have had, which have caused major problems (one on-going, which may end up going down the legal route).

[Purso]

I purchased from them, car sourcing is second to none,found me a great car! But once you have completed the deal getting hold of them is very difficult, getting a response which leads to action takes a huge amount of time and effort. They have also not been entirely honest with a number of aspects of what I was told about the car(breaking news used car dealer lies, I know) nothing that would deter me from buying it. I have had to get many other people involved to force their hand. Make sure you have what is promised in writing. My friend bought a Ferrari from them and has had similar issues to me, I also stumbled across the following thread.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[21ATS]

Unfortunately the car I like in the spec I like is there. So if I want to buy it I have little choice.

There are only 230 FF's in the UK according to Howmanyleft, so I'm shopping in a small pool of vehicles from the word go. When you break that down to mileage, condition, colour combinations, the fact I don't want privacy glass but do want the pan roof. It's likely no more than 10% of the actual cars would fit my requirements, so it is what it is.

All communcation has so far been by email after meeting in person.

[f1ten]

Will be keen to hear how you get on.
They do seem to get hold of some cracking cars even if they are sor ... Between them and redline, th and amari they do seem to get most of the non franchise supercars

[cake eater]

kbf1981 said:

Can someone either talk me into or out of buying a 599?

I won't have any real time to drive it - it'll get used once a week probably on a Saturday morning, but I really like them. I've 2 kids so that makes it less likely I use it, but... I really have always liked them. Cost wise, they seem good value, I don't think they'll depreciate anymore, I'll lose £15k in buying and selling but that's not vastly different from the cost of a family holiday tbh.

I'm open to the F12 argument - but tbh I'd really like an 812 next year and there's no point moving to an 812 from an F12, but moving from a 599 to an 812 would be mega. 812 is not an option presently, but might be next year.

Would you buy one? upsides are you'd really like it, downsides are you're basically spending £100k for something you'll drive 3 hours on a saturday morning

Edited by kbf1981 on Tuesday 14th June 19:39

I know that I am very late to this thread. Work has taken me away and I have not had access to internet. I have an ownership thread in this forum "Every day tips for living with a 599" if you are interested in my experiences.

First would I recommend one. Whole heartedly.

Is the F12 better. Yes. It is however approximately twice the price. It is twice the car. Hmmm. I don't think so but there is no denying it is the better car.

Need to carry the family then the FF but I don't think it is that pretty and they have their own issues particularly with the 4WD system.

If you get the right car, I think you could run it for very little money (except for fuel costs, that is going to hurt every time). I would recommend buying privately as you will save a significant amount over the dealer price. If you want a little assurance a warranty is 4.5k and the dealer doesn't care if you bought private. If you plan to sell privately note that these cars can take a significant amount of time to turn over. The car I bought was for sale for almost 9 months and the price was dropped twice before I bought it and I had some extras thrown in to top.

I have now done 12K miles in 7 months of ownership at a cost of 20k in maintenance and repairs plus 50p per mile fuel bills. My front brakes will need replaced before next spring at an estimated cost of 10k. Clutch is currently okay but I think in a year if I do more track work it will also need replacing also 10k.

That's the head part.

Now the heart. You could buy a Porsche instead but who's to say that isn't going to cost you money with a big engine failure? You could buy it and leave it in the garage and just take it out once in a while but where is the joy in that?

If you buy one, drive it. I fell in love with mine because of the way she goes. 60-160 and it doesn't feel like she's out of breath. Cruise on the motorway and the 599 is a lovely place to be, the huge tank means you don't need to stop too often despite the 15mpg. In town she doesn't attract too much attention but when someone realises what it is you get a really positive response. I feel good just looking at the car in my garage, I feel even better when I am in it, driving it.

I think the 599 is a pretty car. It isn't aero dominated, there are curves though from some angles I think the 599 can look a little awkward.
The gearbox takes some learning but with experience you can get the car to shift smoothly and run quietly. The 599 does GT very well.

But the best bit is when you want do the things you don't want recorded on camera. The part where the road is wide, open, well sighted and empty. Then OMG is she fast and WOW she can stop and turn and wasn't there a Porsche trying to keep up? The 599 is not the easiest car to drive fast, she is big and heavy and it takes some learning to drive her fast, safely. But this is part of the enjoyment, the challenge. The sweaty palms. The daren't look at the speedo. The 599 is a handful; a wonderful, thrilling, big, beautiful, curvy, handful.

I'm never selling even though I initially thought I would upgrade to F12.

Wish you all the best in your search and I hope you find a good one.

Cake

[kbf1981]

cake eater said:

kbf1981 said:

Can someone either talk me into or out of buying a 599?

I won't have any real time to drive it - it'll get used once a week probably on a Saturday morning, but I really like them. I've 2 kids so that makes it less likely I use it, but... I really have always liked them. Cost wise, they seem good value, I don't think they'll depreciate anymore, I'll lose £15k in buying and selling but that's not vastly different from the cost of a family holiday tbh.

I'm open to the F12 argument - but tbh I'd really like an 812 next year and there's no point moving to an 812 from an F12, but moving from a 599 to an 812 would be mega. 812 is not an option presently, but might be next year.

Would you buy one? upsides are you'd really like it, downsides are you're basically spending £100k for something you'll drive 3 hours on a saturday morning

Edited by kbf1981 on Tuesday 14th June 19:39

I know that I am very late to this thread. Work has taken me away and I have not had access to internet. I have an ownership thread in this forum "Every day tips for living with a 599" if you are interested in my experiences.

First would I recommend one. Whole heartedly.

Is the F12 better. Yes. It is however approximately twice the price. It is twice the car. Hmmm. I don't think so but there is no denying it is the better car.

Need to carry the family then the FF but I don't think it is that pretty and they have their own issues particularly with the 4WD system.

If you get the right car, I think you could run it for very little money (except for fuel costs, that is going to hurt every time). I would recommend buying privately as you will save a significant amount over the dealer price. If you want a little assurance a warranty is 4.5k and the dealer doesn't care if you bought private. If you plan to sell privately note that these cars can take a significant amount of time to turn over. The car I bought was for sale for almost 9 months and the price was dropped twice before I bought it and I had some extras thrown in to top.

I have now done 12K miles in 7 months of ownership at a cost of 20k in maintenance and repairs plus 50p per mile fuel bills. My front brakes will need replaced before next spring at an estimated cost of 10k. Clutch is currently okay but I think in a year if I do more track work it will also need replacing also 10k.

That's the head part.

Now the heart. You could buy a Porsche instead but who's to say that isn't going to cost you money with a big engine failure? You could buy it and leave it in the garage and just take it out once in a while but where is the joy in that?

If you buy one, drive it. I fell in love with mine because of the way she goes. 60-160 and it doesn't feel like she's out of breath. Cruise on the motorway and the 599 is a lovely place to be, the huge tank means you don't need to stop too often despite the 15mpg. In town she doesn't attract too much attention but when someone realises what it is you get a really positive response. I feel good just looking at the car in my garage, I feel even better when I am in it, driving it.

I think the 599 is a pretty car. It isn't aero dominated, there are curves though from some angles I think the 599 can look a little awkward.
The gearbox takes some learning but with experience you can get the car to shift smoothly and run quietly. The 599 does GT very well.

But the best bit is when you want do the things you don't want recorded on camera. The part where the road is wide, open, well sighted and empty. Then OMG is she fast and WOW she can stop and turn and wasn't there a Porsche trying to keep up? The 599 is not the easiest car to drive fast, she is big and heavy and it takes some learning to drive her fast, safely. But this is part of the enjoyment, the challenge. The sweaty palms. The daren't look at the speedo. The 599 is a handful; a wonderful, thrilling, big, beautiful, curvy, handful.

I'm never selling even though I initially thought I would upgrade to F12.

Wish you all the best in your search and I hope you find a good one.

Cake

Bought this in the end!