f12 - sensible time to buy?

[Soleith]

F12 gets on the best GT Evo list for used (Roma wins new).

https://www.evo.co.uk/best-cars/10684/best-drivers...

The thing I don't understand is why they're all still saying the F12 is too hyperactive. Having owned the Roma and now the F12 back to back, the Roma is much more hyperactive in the steering dept than the F12!

[Frankychops]

Soleith said:

I see you're also looking at a 720s. Strongly suggest getting a v12 for the supercar. McLaren's are great despite reputation but if you're worried about depreciation are probably not for you and a v12 > v8

I've got a v12(vanquish), i'd enjoy the extra RPM from a ferrari v12.

140-170k opens up so many options. a 720s in dream spec would feel very specail. so would an f12.

Even mc20's are in play.

its not a terrible problem to have!

[Soleith]

Frankychops said:

I've got a v12(vanquish), i'd enjoy the extra RPM from a ferrari v12.

140-170k opens up so many options. a 720s in dream spec would feel very specail. so would an f12.

Even mc20's are in play.

its not a terrible problem to have!

MC20s are wonderful cars and (don't tell Ferrari!) I prefer them to the 296/F8. However values collapse which means used are a very good option but I'm sure values will continue to collapse if you're worried about that. HR Owen had a lovely spec black one for 150k with very few miles on the clock not long ago, I feel like they've still got it and will advertise it again come the spring maybe. Cielo's are still too expensive tho.

Aston V12's are quite poor by comparison IMO to the Ferrari V12 and all the V12's I've driven over the years do feel inferior to the Fezza.

[DeejRC]

The MC20 was always pitched way too high. It was also horribly compromised, mish mashed and dogs dinner’s from the start. Which, if you had followed its mutated gestation from the start was stunningly, infuriatingly annoying of the kind that only Alfa n co could cock up. It still irritates me now. If they had stuck with the original 6C idea or even the 8C that evolved into they would have been fine, but no, they had to go and do what they do. Again. I was on the UK list for both cars.
One day I’ll learn my lesson with Alfa, I really will. One day. Probably.

[maura]

Amari car sold now, not surprised. Dick Lovett taken a deposit on another one, things moving now as we get to the F167 release, price and rules of engagement….

[garystoybox]

maura said:

Amari car sold now, not surprised. Dick Lovett taken a deposit on another one, things moving now as we get to the F167 release, price and rules of engagement….

Honestly don’t think it’s got anything to do with the F167 release. I was told having in a V12 in the garage wasn’t a requirement (but I’ve got an 812 anyway). Don’t believe people will be queuing down the street for a non limited £400k plus car. More likely people are realising that the big increases in the new cars prices will support prices of the current V12’s. A bit of sea change at the moment where the mid engined cars continue to fall (296 free falling) and the existing V12’s looking a safer place to park your money?

[maura]

Good train of thought…think when Romans advertise a New F167 at £495k early 2025 then F12 & 812’s in the 2’s will look sensible. Where I disagree a bit is, F167 is a stunner, and Ferrari have plenty of brand new to the brand Purosangue owners who drop £450k on their SUV, dealers don’t see a problem selling them a £425k last of line N/A V12 to sit in their garages.. let’s revisit when F167 hits the road in 2025..

[Soleith]

The orderbook is there at the moment but feels soft IMO. I know several people with multiple new cars on order with Ferrari who are privately mumbling about not taking all of them. It's part of the game, put several orders in for later years to get better allocations in the short/medium term of stuff you actually want before cancelling some of it after that.

The everything bubble is clearly coming to an end, cars and watches are much easier to get hold of at sensible values. If people see tumbling values might be that demand lets up a bit. That much said, howmanyleft seems to think there are 500 odd 812's in the UK, 300 odd F12's and a similar number of 599s. Given those numbers I'd be surprised if Ferrari can't find at least 1000 people willing to go for F167 so it seems likely the run will sell out in the UK.

[maura]

Not sure how accurate how many left is.. there is a guy over on Ferrarichat who is very knowledgeable and says for UK it s closer to 600 for 812, closer to 400 for both F12 & 599. Then you have got to add in 812 GTS, and if rumours are true they built more than 812 Coupe and are still being delivered. Regardless, UK Production will sell out, I have no doubt, from Existing V12 V8 and new to brand Purosangue owners. Bigger question for me is how many F12 & 812 Owners swap out when it’s close to 3 times F12 price. I’m in that boat, I know its the latest new thing, it will be a stunner, last production N/A V12 but still…UK dealers for sure are not worried about signing up owners for F167, they have other cars to worry about at the moment..not long now to Launch.

[Soleith]

maura said:

Not sure how accurate how many left is.. there is a guy over on Ferrarichat who is very knowledgeable and says for UK it s closer to 600 for 812, closer to 400 for both F12 & 599. Then you have got to add in 812 GTS, and if rumours are true they built more than 812 Coupe and are still being delivered. Regardless, UK Production will sell out, I have no doubt, from Existing V12 V8 and new to brand Purosangue owners. Bigger question for me is how many F12 & 812 Owners swap out when it’s close to 3 times F12 price. I’m in that boat, I know its the latest new thing, it will be a stunner, last production N/A V12 but still…UK dealers for sure are not worried about signing up owners for F167, they have other cars to worry about at the moment..not long now to Launch.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat, contemplating keeping the F12 and getting F167 as I love the F12 so much, will depend on finances closer to the time!

[subirg]

I’ve got an F12 and will consider a 167. Can’t see myself getting an 812. I think history will be kinder to the F12 than 812 as it was the last Pininfarina designed Ferrari, a pure v12 with no gpf etc and is juat a mega event to drive regardless of speed. 167 will be a smash hit at launch but I doubt it will hold all its value - especially at the prices they are likely to charge (at least starting with a 4 and possibly a 5 once options are factored in). Last NA V12? Possibly, but they said that about the F12 at the time it came out, and we know that was utter garbage.

[maura]

Agree, but for me it’s last Pininfarina design, hydraulic steering, and pure RWD no rear wheel steer interference. However, on GPF, 2018 2019 812 SF came without GPF too.. F12 just gets better looking as time goes by, 812 still looks awkward and is clearly not a Pininfarina design. But it’s eye of beholder when it comes to looks, lucky to own either.

[subirg]

True. Looks are totally subjective. The Pininfarina badge and purity of F12s design and engineering are not. And that’s the difference in my view.

Anyone lucky enough to own either is clearly lucky - and most certainly happy!

[Soleith]

Yeah, I went the F12 route as I also don't really like the way the 812 looks. The F12 is just so much more pleasing to (my!) the eye.

[maura]

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features/the-b...

our good friend frankchops over there posting about falling prices again in the ‘Best Buy used cars for 2024 thread… haha

Edited by maura on Saturday 13th January 23:50

[subirg]

Poor old f-chops. His one man mission to talk the f12 market down is turning into a comedic crusade.

[Soleith]

Good old franky

In other news, was dry so fired up the F12 to give it a short go yesterday but couldn't get the tyres over 12 degrees and even being very gentle with the accelerator was breaking traction in 5th gear! Still lovely to drive even super gently though.

On another note, what do others do re fuel in these cars in the winter months? I'm slightly regretting brimming the tank in December when the weather was still not cold as it doesn't seem likely I'll get through the tank before spring. I only use v power in it so it's only e5 but unsure how quickly this stuff breaks down.

[maura]

Are you on Pirelli P Zero Soleith? They are useless in UK temps and the tram lining is horrendous. Switch to Michelin PS4’s, far better for UK conditions.

[Soleith]

maura said:

Are you on Pirelli P Zero Soleith? They are useless in UK temps and the tram lining is horrendous. Switch to Michelin PS4’s, far better for UK conditions.

Hey Maura, nope, had the dealer put on PS4S when I bought the car in August. Didn't want tyres that had been sitting around for 7 years unused! Admittedly I didn't go for a very long drive so it's possible they would've gotten warmer had I kept at it.

[Frankychops]

maura said:

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features/the-b...

our good friend frankchops over there posting about falling prices again in the ‘Best Buy used cars for 2024 thread… haha

Edited by maura on Saturday 13th January 23:50

Did you put the wrong colour lipstick on? Nothing wrong with conversation.