308/328 Values
Discussion
Picking up on an old thread, as I've been watching the 308 & 328s for a while and theres no doubt they've peaked. Same cars around for ages, with the odd new one hitting the web thats been held back for the very reason of pushing up the pricing by 10% over the next and closest comparable to inflate values across the web. Everyone looks on PH to pick their price, finger in the air stuff! Was at an event last week and met 2 Wealth Managers for UHNWs with large investment banks, both said the 'in the know' clients they have are releasing cars and only holding on to the very best, claiming the 'Burst' isn't far off.....id hold out for the crash and pick up a relative bargain!
Roebuck1 said:
2 Wealth Managers for UHNWs with large investment banks, both said the 'in the know' clients they have are releasing cars and only holding on to the very best, claiming the 'Burst' isn't far off.....!
I'd be more convinced if they'd suggested what would cause the "Burst". In order for them to have peaked surely there must be hard evidence of the values falling?? If not then they have simply stopped rising, no??
Roebuck1 said:
Picking up on an old thread, as I've been watching the 308 & 328s for a while and theres no doubt they've peaked. Same cars around for ages, with the odd new one hitting the web thats been held back for the very reason of pushing up the pricing by 10% over the next and closest comparable to inflate values across the web. Everyone looks on PH to pick their price, finger in the air stuff! Was at an event last week and met 2 Wealth Managers for UHNWs with large investment banks, both said the 'in the know' clients they have are releasing cars and only holding on to the very best, claiming the 'Burst' isn't far off.....id hold out for the crash and pick up a relative bargain!
Roebuck1 said:
Picking up on an old thread, as I've been watching the 308 & 328s for a while and theres no doubt they've peaked. Same cars around for ages, with the odd new one hitting the web thats been held back for the very reason of pushing up the pricing by 10% over the next and closest comparable to inflate values across the web. Everyone looks on PH to pick their price, finger in the air stuff! Was at an event last week and met 2 Wealth Managers for UHNWs with large investment banks, both said the 'in the know' clients they have are releasing cars and only holding on to the very best, claiming the 'Burst' isn't far off.....id hold out for the crash and pick up a relative bargain!
Out of interest what price would you call a relative bargain? To my eyes there is a lack of quality cars for sale currently, that makes it difficult to work out the true prices. The best sell and they simply are not coming to the open market. Bearing in mind how low 308s got to, and were for some time, it is no surprise they are all in different condition and histories vary greatly. If you look at the listings on PH the cars hanging around appear to be some vetros at £139-150k or left hand drives/American imports. There is still too great a gap between 308s and Dinos (which I personally think are over valued). However, 308s have risen dramatically within the last 18 months so it's time for an understandable plateau and breather.......frankly the same for the whole car market.....
Rari said:
Roebuck1 said:
Picking up on an old thread, as I've been watching the 308 & 328s for a while and theres no doubt they've peaked. Same cars around for ages, with the odd new one hitting the web thats been held back for the very reason of pushing up the pricing by 10% over the next and closest comparable to inflate values across the web. Everyone looks on PH to pick their price, finger in the air stuff! Was at an event last week and met 2 Wealth Managers for UHNWs with large investment banks, both said the 'in the know' clients they have are releasing cars and only holding on to the very best, claiming the 'Burst' isn't far off.....id hold out for the crash and pick up a relative bargain!
Out of interest what price would you call a relative bargain? To my eyes there is a lack of quality cars for sale currently, that makes it difficult to work out the true prices. The best sell and they simply are not coming to the open market. Bearing in mind how low 308s got to, and were for some time, it is no surprise they are all in different condition and histories vary greatly. If you look at the listings on PH the cars hanging around appear to be some vetros at £139-150k or left hand drives/American imports. There is still too great a gap between 308s and Dinos (which I personally think are over valued). However, 308s have risen dramatically within the last 18 months so it's time for an understandable plateau and breather.......frankly the same for the whole car market.....
As the prices of the older Ferrari's such as the 308/328/348 and 355 have gone up and up and up, fewer and fewer genuine, working class Ferrari enthusiasts can afford them, and more and more investors are becoming wary of paying big money for cars that might just crash in value over night - As they did the last time Ferrari prices rose in this manner back in the late 80's.
3 years ago, a nice 328 would set you back @ £35K~£50K. Today that same car is @£110K~£130K.
Now £35K is BMW money, and not that hard for the average working Joe to afford if he really wants a Ferrari 328. £110K~£130K though is serious money to the average working Joe, and so they were priced out of the market.
For the investor, £35K is peanuts, and when the market started to rise, they could see themselves easily doubling or even tripling their money so they started buying every car available.
With the prices @ £110K~£130K though, they know they're not going to double their money, let alone triple it as hardly anyone is going to spend £220K~£400K on a mass produced Ferrari. And if the bubble should burst, they know their cars could lose £70K~£90K+ each over night.
The profits are no longer there for the investors and they're starting to get a bit nervous, so the market has slowed up to a standstill.
The market also ground to a halt because Winter came along (even though it was a mild winter). From @ October to late April/early May, not much sells because of the adverse weather and all the salt on the roads. We're now coming into the period when the Ferrari market opens up again with the better weather, and so the market might start moving again, but chances are, the prices won't move much any more.
My monies on the market for 308/328/348 and 355's remaining static this year, and then starting to drop back down again slowly next year.
If the investors see the prices starting to go down though, they might panic again as they did in '89 and flood the market with cars to sell fast to try to avoid losing too much money. If that happens, the prices will crash fast and all the enthusiasts will have to do just wait to buy their dream car for an "Affordable" price.
Of course, I might be totally wrong and the market might just take off yet again! - If that happens though, then I'll have to seriously think about whether to keep My 348 or not!
3 years ago, a nice 328 would set you back @ £35K~£50K. Today that same car is @£110K~£130K.
Now £35K is BMW money, and not that hard for the average working Joe to afford if he really wants a Ferrari 328. £110K~£130K though is serious money to the average working Joe, and so they were priced out of the market.
For the investor, £35K is peanuts, and when the market started to rise, they could see themselves easily doubling or even tripling their money so they started buying every car available.
With the prices @ £110K~£130K though, they know they're not going to double their money, let alone triple it as hardly anyone is going to spend £220K~£400K on a mass produced Ferrari. And if the bubble should burst, they know their cars could lose £70K~£90K+ each over night.
The profits are no longer there for the investors and they're starting to get a bit nervous, so the market has slowed up to a standstill.
The market also ground to a halt because Winter came along (even though it was a mild winter). From @ October to late April/early May, not much sells because of the adverse weather and all the salt on the roads. We're now coming into the period when the Ferrari market opens up again with the better weather, and so the market might start moving again, but chances are, the prices won't move much any more.
My monies on the market for 308/328/348 and 355's remaining static this year, and then starting to drop back down again slowly next year.
If the investors see the prices starting to go down though, they might panic again as they did in '89 and flood the market with cars to sell fast to try to avoid losing too much money. If that happens, the prices will crash fast and all the enthusiasts will have to do just wait to buy their dream car for an "Affordable" price.
Of course, I might be totally wrong and the market might just take off yet again! - If that happens though, then I'll have to seriously think about whether to keep My 348 or not!
That makes an awful lot of sense.
As prices rose I always said if I thought I could guarantee £100k for my 308 I would sell. I considered it a year or so ago when there seemed to be few on the market and I may have got £65-70k but couldn't part with it.
Maybe one day when I stop pinching myself and grinning every time I drive it, but that may be some way off.
As prices rose I always said if I thought I could guarantee £100k for my 308 I would sell. I considered it a year or so ago when there seemed to be few on the market and I may have got £65-70k but couldn't part with it.
Maybe one day when I stop pinching myself and grinning every time I drive it, but that may be some way off.
The problem is that when people start saying that prices are likely to stagnate or even drop, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. People see the predictions and decide not to buy, there are fewer buyers in the market and supply and demand sees prices drop.
Five things to consider:
1. Interest rates are low, and there are few investments giving a decent return, so why not spend your money on a Ferrari (that's what I did).
2. Of all classics, Ferraris tend to be one of the best bets as an investment.
3. There is no capital gains tax on cars.
4. If prices drop, there is more scope for those who wish to drive their cars, rather than store them away, to get one.
5. If the price drops (and like me you are not intending to sell anyway) the cost of insurance goes down - my insurance premium has gone up 50% over 4 years because of the increase in value.
6. This month's Classic car magazine features a 328 GTS Rosso Corsa/Crema 22,000 miles as a 'temptation' at £115,000.
There is good news a bad news with prices.
Five things to consider:
1. Interest rates are low, and there are few investments giving a decent return, so why not spend your money on a Ferrari (that's what I did).
2. Of all classics, Ferraris tend to be one of the best bets as an investment.
3. There is no capital gains tax on cars.
4. If prices drop, there is more scope for those who wish to drive their cars, rather than store them away, to get one.
5. If the price drops (and like me you are not intending to sell anyway) the cost of insurance goes down - my insurance premium has gone up 50% over 4 years because of the increase in value.
6. This month's Classic car magazine features a 328 GTS Rosso Corsa/Crema 22,000 miles as a 'temptation' at £115,000.
There is good news a bad news with prices.
red_duke said:
Roebuck1 said:
2 Wealth Managers for UHNWs with large investment banks, both said the 'in the know' clients they have are releasing cars and only holding on to the very best, claiming the 'Burst' isn't far off.....!
I'd be more convinced if they'd suggested what would cause the "Burst". Do we already have oversupply? I'll let you be the judge of that.
Have prices peaked? We think so. Are values going down? Not really - many cars have been trading below the advertised prices for some time. Best cars still selling very well.
[url]
|http://thumbsnap.com/kt8jLNzg[/url]I think that the 308/328 was a fabulous, cheap (relatively) Ferrari to buy and run for an enthusiast a couple of years ago. I think that collectors criteria for buying cars is rarity, either through cars remaining with low mileage or cars built. Unfortunately, the 308/328 moved in to a price bracket which has become rarified for the enthusiast while being too abundant in both collector categories. Prices will settle down, but I don't think will collapse. Current price ranges seem to be £85,000/£150,000. Realistically they probably need to be £70,000/£125,000. They are a great car and if mine doesn't sell then I will happily buy a car lifter for the garage so I have space to store it properly!
red_duke said:
Roebuck1 said:
2 Wealth Managers for UHNWs with large investment banks, both said the 'in the know' clients they have are releasing cars and only holding on to the very best, claiming the 'Burst' isn't far off.....!
I'd be more convinced if they'd suggested what would cause the "Burst". So if these UHNW individuals who are "in the know" sell their stocks of appreciating cars (with no CGT) whilst at the moment you have over-demand for a finite product - what exactly are they going to buy instead?
I remember £27,500 being about the minimum price for a good 328 ten years ago as I was seriously looking at the time. Using an inflation calculator reveals that the price would now be £37,000 if they'd gone up with wider inflation. It's interesting, considering how may 328s were made, that they now change hands at such high prices. Beautiful car but I couldn't afford one at today's prices and if I'd bought one back in 2006, when I could have, its value would now be completely at odds with my financial status and I'd be afraid to use it. Kind of spoils it for the true enthusiasts.
I probably paid top money for my November 1986 built, 1987 registered, 13000 mile 328 GTS when I purchased it exactly 7 years ago. I may have said on this thread before that I bought the car because it was the model Ferrari I wanted as my friend had one at the time, and I was very familiar with service requirements, running costs and its strengths and faults. Although I have not had too many opportunities to drive it this year (it now has 16250 miles), I bought it to enjoy and not as an investment, which it certainly wasn't at the time. My view when I bought it was that if I got my money back if ever I sold it, that would be great. When I started looking for a 328 in 2008, there weren't too many good ones around, and although 6068 GTS's were built in total, only 250 pre ABS and 292 ABS versions were officially imported into the UK. How many of the 542 are left in the UK now? Perhaps the relatively low numbers sold (plus 130 GTB's) contribute to their current values and popularity. And it is a great car to drive!
When I started this thread, I was tentatively looking for a 328, and there were about five or six for sale.
One was advertised at £65k, and seemed to be well kept. Spoke to the dealer who was around 300 miles away from me, and he told me that there were five people lined up to look at it that week. As I couldn't get there that week, I left it.
Now there are over a hundred 308 and 328s for sale.
Although prices have definitely gone up, it would appear that the market has found its level and that they're unlikely to rise any further.
We were in Monaco yesterday, and followed a 328 through Casino Sqaure. Still a fantastic looking car.
One was advertised at £65k, and seemed to be well kept. Spoke to the dealer who was around 300 miles away from me, and he told me that there were five people lined up to look at it that week. As I couldn't get there that week, I left it.
Now there are over a hundred 308 and 328s for sale.
Although prices have definitely gone up, it would appear that the market has found its level and that they're unlikely to rise any further.
We were in Monaco yesterday, and followed a 328 through Casino Sqaure. Still a fantastic looking car.
gmarsh said:
And it is a great car to drive!
I had great fun driving my 328 at Goodwood this year. It was my second time there and in the first session I was keeping up with a 458 - although I think the driver of the 458 hadn't had the car very long and hadn't driven Goodwood before. I have four cars, all having MoT tests in the autumn - the 328 is the oldest and was the only one to pass without any work being required!The increase in value is a concern, but I try to put it out of my mind (except when I renew the insurance).
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