Bad time to buy a classic?

[northo]

HMRC already expect you to pay tax on the sale of any car that is bought and sold specifically to make profit.......

[Murph7355]

johnfm said:

If they tax profit, they'd need to allow offsetting of losses on car ownership. Far more cars generate losses than profits. Can only see this working of they prosecute people who they prove do it for profit.

Remember they are thieving bds...they wouldn't have to do anything to offset losses.

I think if you buy/sell more than a couple of cars in a year you're meant to declare it...?

[rubystone]

Murph7355 said:

Remember they are thieving bds...they wouldn't have to do anything to offset losses.

I think if you buy/sell more than a couple of cars in a year you're meant to declare it...?

6 is the figure, I believe,

[northo]

rubystone said:

Murph7355 said:

Remember they are thieving bds...they wouldn't have to do anything to offset losses.

I think if you buy/sell more than a couple of cars in a year you're meant to declare it...?

6 is the figure, I believe,

There is no figure - it is the intention which is key (and I don't think it would be too hard to prove for plenty of speculators over the last couple of years)as they could be classed as traders. There is no doubt that plenty of them are just that.

http://pwc.blogs.com/private_business/2015/04/capi...

[Robert W]

BigLion said:

Jonny TVR said:

I'm interested in buying my dream classic a testarossa. I'm obviously aware of the appreciation of values and remember the classic car boom of the eighties and understand how different people say this boom is. I don't mind paying more than I would have done a couple of years back. However if I buy now am I going to get my fingers burnt .. I know it depends on how well I buy and how the economy post Brexit unfolds. Whats everyones view? I'm after an early car I think and not that concerned whether its RHD/ LHD. Not entirely sure where to start

What happened in the 80s boom?

Did prices collapse and stay at those levels thereafter for a few years?

I have an auction catalogue from 1989 with a Ferrari 365 bb at £250k. Then they were down to £50k. Now they are up at £250k again.

Testarossas were over £150k in the 80's boom, then down at £50k. Now they are up over £100k again.

No, now is not a good time to buy a Testarossa. Whatever you buy is likely to be worth less at some point when the prices drop.

.....but then surely a Testarossa is a heart purchase not a head purchase.

[marky1]

Robert W said:

I have an auction catalogue from 1989 with a Ferrari 365 bb at £250k. Then they were down to £50k. Now they are up at £250k again.

Testarossas were over £150k in the 80's boom, then down at £50k. Now they are up over £100k again.

No, now is not a good time to buy a Testarossa. Whatever you buy is likely to be worth less at some point when the prices drop.

.....but then surely a Testarossa is a heart purchase not a head purchase.

Can't see them coming off to be fair. 150k in the 1980's must be like 450k now.

[anonymous-user]

marky1 said:

Robert W said:

I have an auction catalogue from 1989 with a Ferrari 365 bb at £250k. Then they were down to £50k. Now they are up at £250k again.

Testarossas were over £150k in the 80's boom, then down at £50k. Now they are up over £100k again.

No, now is not a good time to buy a Testarossa. Whatever you buy is likely to be worth less at some point when the prices drop.

.....but then surely a Testarossa is a heart purchase not a head purchase.

Can't see them coming off to be fair. 150k in the 1980's must be like 450k now.

In addition to Mark's point, take a look at the growth of millionaires in the US alone since the 80's - never mind China and the rest of the world. At the very top the number of billionaires globally has quadrupled in the last 10 years to well over 2000. A percentage of these will want to spend some of that money on a classic car. There are a fixed number of Testarossas available, as with any other classic. While the top of the market may be letting off a bit of steam at the moment, there is only one way values are going to trend and that is up. Fixed supply, growing demand. The great thing is that while modern classics are mileage sensitive that becomes less of an issue as they get older and 'wear' becomes 'patina' - so get them out the garage and put some patina on

My question is what happens when ICE cars are no longer allowed on our roads? Do they all just become curiosities?

[Behemoth]

thecook101 said:

My question is what happens when ICE cars are no longer allowed on our roads? Do they all just become curiosities?

There will always be historic classes that are licensed. I have absolutely no doubt about that. You may need to have vehicle worthy of that accolade (another debate) and be a member of a club etc.

btw £150k in 1989 is ~£360k now.

[_Leg_]

johnfm said:

Murph7355 said:

gmarsh said:

Friend passed on to me last weeks (21 September) Classic Car Weekly which includes a front page heading "UK Government Won't Rule Out Capital Gains Tax On Classics", with the main article on page 3. The article mentions that 'industry insiders believe HMR&C is looking at new tiers that would affect private individuals who effectively trade in classics with the main purpose of making a profit'. Included in the article is a comment from a spokesman from PWC and Hagerty insurance. Watch this space I guess?

Would be the easiest thing in the world for them to implement and might net a few quid. They wouldn't even need the "tiering" IMO. Just add capital gains tax to any profit made on a car sale. It won't impact the vast majority of people as most people don't make profits on cars.

Enforcing it might be a touch difficult for private sales. But probably no more so than anything else.

I'd bet money on it happening...

If they tax profit, they'd need to allow offsetting of losses on car ownership. Far more cars generate losses than profits. Can only see this working of they prosecute people who they prove do it for profit.

Not to mention the storage costs. If I keep my cars 20 years the per car storage costs I could offset against any profit, using a rate similar to that charged by a storage business of what, £100 a month would be plenty. £1200 x 20 years per car. Then maintenance, insurance etc. Add that to what I lose on my none appreciating cars and HMRC will owe me.

[Camlet]

gmarsh said:

Friend passed on to me last weeks (21 September) Classic Car Weekly which includes a front page heading "UK Government Won't Rule Out Capital Gains Tax On Classics", with the main article on page 3. The article mentions that 'industry insiders believe HMR&C is looking at new tiers that would affect private individuals who effectively trade in classics with the main purpose of making a profit'. Included in the article is a comment from a spokesman from PWC and Hagerty insurance. Watch this space I guess?

The gains have been since 2013 based on historic low interest rates and a tsunami of global QE. The market's a house of cards. I'm sure HMRC can't wait to crawl through the inevitable treacle.