'Motorsport' magazine review of Ferrari 308 Vetroresina

[rat rod]

priley said:

I think on closer inspection of the pics there was a fair bit of rust apparently, on A pillars etc, (I think there may also have been mention of a cage having been fitted) so the money to put it right would put it about right.

Late for the party again !

[Slippydiff]

And the Yanks take on the Vetroresina from March '77 :

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33298474/tes...

[browngt3]

Slippydiff said:

And the Yanks take on the Vetroresina from March '77 :

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33298474/tes...

Good evening, Henry. That was a good find. Enjoyed reading it, thanks for posting.

Makes you realise what an impact the 308 made back in the mid 70's when, for the road cars at least, a Ferrari historically meant front engined V12 grand tourer. This sentiment also came across in Jenks' article. OK, they already had the 246 Dino followed by the 308 GT4 but these weren't considered 'proper' Ferraris. Then of course there was the 365BB which hadn't been around for long enough and, like the Countach, perhaps viewed like we might today's hypercars. In other words impractical and certainly unobtainable. So the little 308 appeared with all its delectable beauty. Furthermore it was a delight to drive, reasonably practical and even, perhaps, slightly obtainable.

Just think what the everyday car was in the1970's both here and in the States. I don't know anything about American cars but we had the dogs dinner that was British Leyland. I guess Detroit was churning out similar st. Then there were the myriad Escorts, Cortinas, Vauxhall Vivas etc etc. With that in mind I'm sure the beautiful Ferrari made an impact that would be lost on today's generation of car enthusiasts for whom there's a new supercar on YouTube every week!

Certainly made an impact on this young car fanatic, which is why I ended up buying one!!

[Slippydiff]

browngt3 said:

Slippydiff said:

And the Yanks take on the Vetroresina from March '77 :

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33298474/tes...

Good evening, Henry. That was a good find. Enjoyed reading it, thanks for posting.

Makes you realise what an impact the 308 made back in the mid 70's when, for the road cars at least, a Ferrari historically meant front engined V12 grand tourer. This sentiment also came across in Jenks' article. OK, they already had the 246 Dino followed by the 308 GT4 but these weren't considered 'proper' Ferraris. Then of course there was the 365BB which hadn't been around for long enough and, like the Countach, perhaps viewed like we might today's hypercars. In other words impractical and certainly unobtainable. So the little 308 appeared with all its delectable beauty. Furthermore it was a delight to drive, reasonably practical and even, perhaps, slightly obtainable.

Just think what the everyday car was in the1970's both here and in the States. I don't know anything about American cars but we had the dogs dinner that was British Leyland. I guess Detroit was churning out similar st. Then there were the myriad Escorts, Cortinas, Vauxhall Vivas etc etc. With that in mind I'm sure the beautiful Ferrari made an impact that would be lost on today's generation of car enthusiasts for whom there's a new supercar on YouTube every week!

Certainly made an impact on this young car fanatic, which is why I ended up buying one!!

Morning Antony. Your comments on the 365 BB brought to mind this video : (ignore the fact it's from Sam/Seen through glass) as it's one of his better efforts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwlMIx9CeI0

As you've said, the BB was somewhat impractical (though I guess that's to be expected) and judging by the video I've linked to, hard work and somewhat spiky to drive too ... Sounds wonderful though !!

As you've said, the 365 BB & Countach would have made a massive impact back when they were released, especially when compared to the humdrum stuff the majority would have been driving around in back then

Interesting to hear the owner of the BB still saying the 246 Dino wasn't considered a "real" Ferrari, I think they're absolutely stunning and very much a real Ferrari, V12 engine or no V12 engine.

I'm glad the launch of the 308 silenced the majority of the critics, and V8 mid-engined concept probably ensured Ferrari's long term survival too ...

[browngt3]

Evening Henry, yes, definitely one of his better videos. I guess the immense privelage of a passenger ride in a 365 BB through beautiful Italian scenery chilled him out a bit. He's normally far too excitable for my tastes. Don't think a BB can be that difficult to drive as Carlo manages to remove both hands from the steering wheel in order to speak,he is Italian after all

Agreed the BB flat 12 sounds amazing and for me the 365 is the pick of the range. Interesting that Carlo had a 512 but went back to the earlier car.

Here's a good watch from Henry Catchpole you might also have seen. HC doesn't seem to have too much of a problem driving it either!

https://youtu.be/6ONZoar-Htk

[Slippydiff]

browngt3 said:

Evening Henry, yes, definitely one of his better videos. I guess the immense privelage of a passenger ride in a 365 BB through beautiful Italian scenery chilled him out a bit. He's normally far too excitable for my tastes. Don't think a BB can be that difficult to drive as Carlo manages to remove both hands from the steering wheel in order to speak,he is Italian after all

Agreed the BB flat 12 sounds amazing and for me the 365 is the pick of the range. Interesting that Carlo had a 512 but went back to the earlier car.

Here's a good watch from Henry Catchpole you might also have seen. HC doesn't seem to have too much of a problem driving it either!

https://youtu.be/6ONZoar-Htk

An excellent find Antony !!
I imagine with his cycling exploits that Henry Catchpole is super fit, and has strong arms, though the steering looked like quite a workout, I'd imagine that any tactility and feedback disappears as the steering weighs up on corner entry and mid corner ...
It is a lovely thing, even though some Yank decided it would look better in black rather than Giallo Fly

[browngt3]

Ha ha, I'll take it in Giallo Fly over black any day of the week!

Btw, I'll reply to your email soon, Henry. We don't want to monopolise this thread afterall

Where's all the Classic Ferrari enthusiasts? Must be one or two BB owners out there. Are they really such a handful? Do you also need to take out a second mortgage to actually drive the thing? Would love to hear your experiences

[cgt2]

Chap down the street when I was growing up had a navy blue 512BB. Absolutely stunning car.

For some reason I always found the placement of the Pioneer graphic equaliser fascinating, how's that for muddled ergonomics!!

[Leithen]

Not one my father's favourites by a long chalk. Perhaps due to how much was wrong with it. On the bright side, most of the production faults should have been remedied by now....

[ettore]

I deeply love the BB, both 365 and 512. I worked at a petrol station when I was 16 and one of the regulars had one with lovely gold LM wheels. Fancied one ever since.

I had a regretful moment in the early noughties when I nearly bought one. It was metallic brown with tartan seat inserts, which was somewhat outre at the time but would be magnificent now. Unfortunately I was in my twenties and the insurance man had an aneurism so I bought a Boxster S instead (for the same money!!).

Seriously tempted now that values are slipping a bit but I have no direct experience. Anyone here had one? - a few stories about how difficult they are but I’m used to old cars and wonder whether it’s stuff and nonsense...

[Slippydiff]

ettore said:

I deeply love the BB, both 365 and 512. I worked at a petrol station when I was 16 and one of the regulars had one with lovely gold LM wheels. Fancied one ever since.

I had a regretful moment in the early noughties when I nearly bought one. It was metallic brown with tartan seat inserts, which was somewhat outre at the time but would be magnificent now. Unfortunately I was in my twenties and the insurance man had an aneurism so I bought a Boxster S instead (for the same money!!).

Seriously tempted now that values are slipping a bit but I have no direct experience. Anyone here had one? - a few stories about how difficult they are but I’m used to old cars and wonder whether it’s stuff and nonsense...

Sound familiar Antony ?? !! Boxster now worth tuppence ha’penny, BB now worth ? I shudder to think ...

[browngt3]

Ah, hindsight. 'tis a wonderful thing. Oh, how I wish I bought a BB instead of a Boxster. Or a Countach Periscopo or any kind of air-cooled RS or a Dino or..... the list is endless. I even remember a time when a 250 GT Lusso was vaguely affordable, except I was still at college and I think I only had 50 pence

[ettore]

browngt3 said:

Ah, hindsight. 'tis a wonderful thing. Oh, how I wish I bought a BB instead of a Boxster. Or a Countach Periscopo or any kind of air-cooled RS or a Dino or..... the list is endless. I even remember a time when a 250 GT Lusso was vaguely affordable, except I was still at college and I think I only had 50 pence

It certainly is. I also share an RS story although I did get a 2.2S a bit later!

[browngt3]

There's an interesting review of a restomod 308 in this month's EVO.

It's a GTB QV by Moto Technique with the 3 litre V8 expanded to 3.6 with Jenvey throttle bodies, Capristo exhaust and numerous other goodies. Unfortunately no power figures are given nor conversion costs but I would imagine it's a princely sum.

Now would somebody ask Henry Catchpole or Harry Metcalfe to do a You Tube review please!

[Slippydiff]

browngt3 said:

There's an interesting review of a restomod 308 in this month's EVO.

It's a GTB QV by Moto Technique with the 3 litre V8 expanded to 3.6 with Jenvey throttle bodies, Capristo exhaust and numerous other goodies. Unfortunately no power figures are given nor conversion costs but I would imagine it's a princely sum.

Now would somebody ask Henry Catchpole or Harry Metcalfe to do a You Tube review please!

Hi Antony, I hope you're well ?
Is the Mototechnique car one of the three "Evos"they've recently built ? If so, the engine is rated at 400hp (the same as David Lees Dino)

[browngt3]

Hi Henry, I'm well thanks, hope you are too. The article doesn't mention if it's one of the 3 'Evo's - they do call it a 388GTBi however.

Actually the featured car should be called a 368GTBi as it has a 3.6 litre engine but I guess 388 sounds better. Another car in build is mentioned with a 3.8 motor and 400bhp.

I'm always in two minds about these restomods. Like the Singer 911 they're a seriously desirable piece of kit but unless you're David Lee and already have a fantastic collection my choice would be different.

For example, I'm guessing a build cost excl donor car for the 388 is going to be upwards of 250k. As a purist I might prefer a nice Dino or 365BB and keep my existing QV! Does anyone on here know the potential build cost?

As nice as a Singer 911 is I could have a 959 AND a Carrera GT for similar money!

[OLDBENZ]

browngt3 said:

Ha ha, I'll take it in Giallo Fly over black any day of the week!


Where's all the Classic Ferrari enthusiasts? Must be one or two BB owners out there. Are they really such a handful? Do you also need to take out a second mortgage to actually drive the thing? Would love to hear your experiences

I am a new 512BB owner - photo below. When I say new, I had my first drive 10 days ago so I am probably not the best qualified owner to comment on the trials and tribulations of longterm ownership. I have, however, managed a few decent drives and have covered about 450 miles so far in a mix of motorway, central London stop start and country roads. It is probably an understatement to say that so far I am delighted. The car is fresh from a full rebuild in Modena in its delivery colours.

The first thing you notice when you get behind the wheel is that the clutch pedal is extraordinarily heavy although strangely it just seems normal after the first time you press it. Funny how quickly you adapt. I think that the clutch is just a standard characteristic of Ferraris of that period - I have also driven another 512BB and a Daytona and they were both exactly the same. The other thing that jumped out at me was how similar the instruments were to those of my 1979 Series 1 Rover SD1 that I was gifted by my father in the 80s. I reckon a case of Rover sniffing around seeing what else they could copy from Ferrari after they had pinched the Daytona nose rather than Ferrari looking to Rover for inspiration but the similarity is uncanny. Visibility is very good - a world apart from modern supercars.

I was pretty cautious at the outset as I had read all the stuff about the wayward rear end, the difficult gearbox when cold, the heavy steering etc etc and as it was a new purchase I had my listening ears on for strange rattles and clonks and funny engine noises. Well, it all seemed pretty good to me - much more hewn from the solid than I was expecting, and as I started to push it a little harder the turn in seems very sharp and accurate and the whole car 'flows' very nicely on fast country roads. The engine is a complete dream - about 360 bhp give or take depending on who you believe which is a mere bagatelle in the current supercar world of 800 plus bhp. For all that it is a quite remarkable engine with a relentless linear shove. I was also impressed with how it takes traffic jams in its stride - it is happy to hold 90c on the water temp, keeps a constant idle and does not get fluffy and irritable. A/C is better than I expected too.

If there is one thing I do not particularly like it is that first gear is so tall (it pulls nearly 60 mph) that it is a (real) challenge to pull away
from stationary on even a gentle incline and still be kind to the clutch. I am nearly a Ferrari virgin - this is the first Ferrari I have owned and I have only driven two others (another BB and a Daytona as mentioned above). None of the three I have driven have suffered from the 'avoid 2nd when cold' syndrome which I had been led to expect so I unless I have been very lucky x3 I will no longer accept that is normal.

Why did I buy? I have a small collection of mainly 60s cars and had an itch for a Miura S having been lucky enough to have some decent seat time in a friend's example in the US a couple of years ago. The biggest compliment I can pay the BB is that (in my opinion) I have at least 75% of the pleasure of a Miura for about 20% of the cost. No more itching!

Edited by OLDBENZ on Sunday 13th September 15:10

[Slippydiff]

browngt3 said:

Hi Henry, I'm well thanks, hope you are too. The article doesn't mention if it's one of the 3 'Evo's - they do call it a 388GTBi however.

Actually the featured car should be called a 368GTBi as it has a 3.6 litre engine but I guess 388 sounds better. Another car in build is mentioned with a 3.8 motor and 400bhp.

I'm always in two minds about these restomods. Like the Singer 911 they're a seriously desirable piece of kit but unless you're David Lee and already have a fantastic collection my choice would be different.

For example, I'm guessing a build cost excl donor car for the 388 is going to be upwards of 250k. As a purist I might prefer a nice Dino or 365BB and keep my existing QV! Does anyone on here know the potential build cost?

As nice as a Singer 911 is I could have a 959 AND a Carrera GT for similar money!

I'm guessing that at the current price point for a new Singer (with a decent spec) most potential owners will already have a "collection", which probably contains a CGT or a raft of watercooled GT cars and a 2.7RS/964/993 RS.

The 959 is a great car, but my understanding is numerous parts are now NLA, and the parts that are, are eyewateringly expensive.

I was chatting to a gentleman who was considering purchasing a CGT recently, whilst probably cheaper to run than the 959, they're still not cheap ...

The thing about the Singer is, you could nip out to get a pint of milk and a newspaper in it, or you could take it to pub, or to Waitrose, or indeed the gym, and if it was one of the more discrete hues, no one would bat an eyelid, the same can't be said for the CGT, and despite the 959 being a technical tour de force, to the great unwashed, it just looks like a badly modified, slightly chavved up old 911 ...

That's not to say I'd buy a Singer, I'd more likely have a 964 RS, a 993 RS, a Challenge Stradale, a 308 QV and a Dino (and if there were any spare change, build a resto mod 308 QV ...)

[cgt2]

OLDBENZ said:

I am a new 512BB owner - photo below. When I say new, I had my first drive 10 days ago so I am probably not the best qualified owner to comment on the trials and tribulations of longterm ownership. I have, however, managed a few decent drives and have covered about 450 miles so far in a mix of motorway, central London stop start and country roads. It is probably an understatement to say that so far I am delighted. The car is fresh from a full rebuild in Modena in its delivery colours.

The first thing you notice when you get behind the wheel is that the clutch pedal is extraordinarily heavy although strangely it just seems normal after the first time you press it. Funny how quickly you adapt. I think that the clutch is just a standard characteristic of Ferrari's of that period - I have also driven another 512BB and a Daytona and they were both exactly the same. The other thing that jumped out at me was how similar the instruments were to those of my 1979 Series 1 Rover SD1 that I was gifted by my father in the 80s. I reckon a case of Rover sniffing around seeing what else they could copy from Ferrari after they had pinched the Daytona nose rather than Ferrari looking to Rover for inspiration but the similarity is uncanny. Visibility is very good - a world apart from modern supercars.

I was pretty cautious at the outset as I had read all the stuff about the wayward rear end, the difficult gearbox when cold, the heavy steering etc etc and as it was a new purchase I had my listening ears on for strange rattles and clonks and funny engine noises. Well, it all seemed pretty good to me - much more hewn from the solid than I was expecting, and as I started to push it a little harder the turn in seems very sharp and accurate and the whole car 'flows' very nicely on fast country roads. The engine is a complete dream - about 360 bhp give or take depending on who you believe which is a mere bagatelle in the current supercar world of 800 plus bhp. For all that it is a quite remarkable engine with a relentless linear shove. I was also impressed with how it takes traffic jams in its stride - it is happy to hold 90c on the water temp, keeps a constant idle and does not get fluffy and irritable. A/C is better than I expected too.

If there is one thing I do not particularly like it is that first gear is so tall (it pulls nearly 60 mph) that it is a (real) challenge to pull away
from stationary on even a gentle incline and still be kind to the clutch. I am nearly a Ferrari virgin - this is the first Ferrari I have owned and I have only driven two others (another BB and a Daytona as mentioned above). None of the three I have driven have suffered from the 'avoid 2nd when cold' syndrome which I had been led to expect so I unless I have been very lucky x3 I will no longer accept that is normal.

Why did I buy? I have a small collection of mainly 60s cars and had an itch for a Miura S having been lucky enough to have some decent seat time in a friend's example in the US a couple of years ago. The biggest compliment I can pay the BB is that (in my opinion) I have at least 75% of the pleasure of a Miura for about 20% of the cost. No more itching!

Beautiful, well done. I too have never experienced the second from cold issue, though in a car with torque I always tend to go 1-3-5 during the warming up phase.

Perhaps it was the case in the past and not so much now with modern gear oils. It's always been good practice for me to do an annual gear oil change. For the relatively low cost I believe it does pay dividends.

[rat rod]

OLDBENZ said:

browngt3 said:

Ha ha, I'll take it in Giallo Fly over black any day of the week!


Where's all the Classic Ferrari enthusiasts? Must be one or two BB owners out there. Are they really such a handful? Do you also need to take out a second mortgage to actually drive the thing? Would love to hear your experiences

I am a new 512BB owner - photo below. When I say new, I had my first drive 10 days ago so I am probably not the best qualified owner to comment on the trials and tribulations of longterm ownership. I have, however, managed a few decent drives and have covered about 450 miles so far in a mix of motorway, central London stop start and country roads. It is probably an understatement to say that so far I am delighted. The car is fresh from a full rebuild in Modena in its delivery colours.

The first thing you notice when you get behind the wheel is that the clutch pedal is extraordinarily heavy although strangely it just seems normal after the first time you press it. Funny how quickly you adapt. I think that the clutch is just a standard characteristic of Ferrari's of that period - I have also driven another 512BB and a Daytona and they were both exactly the same. The other thing that jumped out at me was how similar the instruments were to those of my 1979 Series 1 Rover SD1 that I was gifted by my father in the 80s. I reckon a case of Rover sniffing around seeing what else they could copy from Ferrari after they had pinched the Daytona nose rather than Ferrari looking to Rover for inspiration but the similarity is uncanny. Visibility is very good - a world apart from modern supercars.

I was pretty cautious at the outset as I had read all the stuff about the wayward rear end, the difficult gearbox when cold, the heavy steering etc etc and as it was a new purchase I had my listening ears on for strange rattles and clonks and funny engine noises. Well, it all seemed pretty good to me - much more hewn from the solid than I was expecting, and as I started to push it a little harder the turn in seems very sharp and accurate and the whole car 'flows' very nicely on fast country roads. The engine is a complete dream - about 360 bhp give or take depending on who you believe which is a mere bagatelle in the current supercar world of 800 plus bhp. For all that it is a quite remarkable engine with a relentless linear shove. I was also impressed with how it takes traffic jams in its stride - it is happy to hold 90c on the water temp, keeps a constant idle and does not get fluffy and irritable. A/C is better than I expected too.

If there is one thing I do not particularly like it is that first gear is so tall (it pulls nearly 60 mph) that it is a (real) challenge to pull away
from stationary on even a gentle incline and still be kind to the clutch. I am nearly a Ferrari virgin - this is the first Ferrari I have owned and I have only driven two others (another BB and a Daytona as mentioned above). None of the three I have driven have suffered from the 'avoid 2nd when cold' syndrome which I had been led to expect so I unless I have been very lucky x3 I will no longer accept that is normal.

Why did I buy? I have a small collection of mainly 60s cars and had an itch for a Miura S having been lucky enough to have some decent seat time in a friend's example in the US a couple of years ago. The biggest compliment I can pay the BB is that (in my opinion) I have at least 75% of the pleasure of a Miura for about 20% of the cost. No more itching!

Loving the Boxer, Congratulations on your first Ferrari, good choice, especially in that colour.
Most work their way up to the flag ship with 308 GT4's / GTB's , Dino's ect but you jumped straight into the deep end, well done

Like your analysis on the percentages of price and pleasure between the Boxer and Miura , Just show's you don't have to spend a million plus to obtain the same amount of pleasure for a relatively smaller amount . . .

Edited by rat rod on Sunday 13th September 19:48