Discussion
I was a little bit suprised by Hammonds comment during last nights Hurracan test where he said he loved the Gallardo but the gearbox was "Rubbish".
The debate between e-gear and manual (as with the Ferrari F1 v manual)will go on forever with the he men preffering the manual and the hairdressers prefering the auto .... blah blah blah.
However I dont recall reading that e-gear and certainly in an LP being slated, did I miss something ?
And dont they share the same box anyway ? .... just going to research that now.
The debate between e-gear and manual (as with the Ferrari F1 v manual)will go on forever with the he men preffering the manual and the hairdressers prefering the auto .... blah blah blah.
However I dont recall reading that e-gear and certainly in an LP being slated, did I miss something ?
And dont they share the same box anyway ? .... just going to research that now.
All journos are now obsessed with double clutch systems ala huracan which shift seamlessly compared to old hat clunky single clutch systems ala gallardo... The egear became common cause for bad press about the time the 458 was released... Funny comment from Hammond in context as with a double clutch there is no skill or emotion just super efficient changes
e-gear has certain advantages ( speed, weight, cost, those noisy downshifts, protects the engine from downshift over revs, automatic mode can be programmed to get the car through noise/emissions/consumption tests, gives an "automatic" mode to those who want one ), but has been widely and rightly criticised over the years for sometimes abrupt low-speed changes and less than idiot-proof low speed control
interesting how now that the car has had even more of the characteristic idiosyncracies ironed-out, it got heavily criticised for being less lamborghini
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0516rld/top-...
interesting how now that the car has had even more of the characteristic idiosyncracies ironed-out, it got heavily criticised for being less lamborghini
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0516rld/top-...
I love the clunk in my egear, it lets you know something has happened and really isn't as bad as people seem to think, just feels a tad dated next to dual clutch systems.
The Huracan gearbox is simply epic but strangely discomfiting, you hear the revs rise and fall but other than that nothing happens at all, there's no feedback, it is just flicking a switch.
The 650s box was a little more involving but still pretty anodyne compared to egear, we're stuck with them now though if you're going to buy anything new.
The Huracan gearbox is simply epic but strangely discomfiting, you hear the revs rise and fall but other than that nothing happens at all, there's no feedback, it is just flicking a switch.
The 650s box was a little more involving but still pretty anodyne compared to egear, we're stuck with them now though if you're going to buy anything new.
still early days with mine but a little bit of common sense like backing off the throttle a touch makes a lot smoother.
funny enough different game but i changed our daily A clas from Auto to cvt Auto and I hate the thing, no idea of gear change the revs just get higher and the engine makes a bit more noise so assume its changed down, give me a little thump in the back anyday ...... not literally.
funny enough different game but i changed our daily A clas from Auto to cvt Auto and I hate the thing, no idea of gear change the revs just get higher and the engine makes a bit more noise so assume its changed down, give me a little thump in the back anyday ...... not literally.
I've been in an 06 Gallardo for a few months now and managed to run up 6k in 3 months (more than I've put on my daily Jag in the same period). I only find the e-gear frustrating in stopped traffic, it does start to get temperamental then (early e-gear). Having driven the Huracan recently I have to say I missed the wack of the gear change, the post above hits the nail on the head, emotionless. I was in awe of it's speed, I love the grip but when all said and done if I want to have a smooth ride I would use my XJ. Huracan has lost some of that whey hey I'm here and look at the grin on my face, but if it was track day and i needed to prove a point, Huracan wins the day. As for e-gear being rubbish, these guys don't get to live and learn the cars, following my manual Murci from 2001 I'd take the e-gear every time, my left leg now also enjoys a full day sweeping through the country lanes!
Pre LP box is not great, but at the time was pretty good and on par with its competitors, LP box was a great improvement and pretty bombproof, basically v good then and still pretty good now, just the new generation dual clutch stuff is on another level.
Topgear really does talk some rubbish and has no real substantiated view on any car they review these days, a great shame really as I used to enjoy it before it got too silly.
Topgear really does talk some rubbish and has no real substantiated view on any car they review these days, a great shame really as I used to enjoy it before it got too silly.
E -gear in the later LP models is fine and gets better at higher RPM. Ok its a little clunky at low around town manoeuvring speed but not horrendous.
I must admit I use sport rather than full on Corsa which really is a bit harsh for me.
Best single clutch gearbox you can get is the superfast II on the Scuderia - absolutely superb, quick and not as harsh as the lambo and more sensation to it than the dual clutch stuff ( 15,000 miles on mine and only 9% wear as well, which was far better than the 24% on 12,000 miles on my previous F430 F1 spider)
There is definitely more sensation and emotion dialled into the 650S gearchange over 12C and the other dual clutches but its not as good as the Scuderia for excitement - that's such a brilliant gearbox
I must admit I use sport rather than full on Corsa which really is a bit harsh for me.
Best single clutch gearbox you can get is the superfast II on the Scuderia - absolutely superb, quick and not as harsh as the lambo and more sensation to it than the dual clutch stuff ( 15,000 miles on mine and only 9% wear as well, which was far better than the 24% on 12,000 miles on my previous F430 F1 spider)
There is definitely more sensation and emotion dialled into the 650S gearchange over 12C and the other dual clutches but its not as good as the Scuderia for excitement - that's such a brilliant gearbox
topjay said:
Pre LP box is not great, but at the time was pretty good and on par with its competitors, LP box was a great improvement and pretty bombproof, basically v good then and still pretty good now, just the new generation dual clutch stuff is on another level.
Topgear really does talk some rubbish and has no real substantiated view on any car they review these days, a great shame really as I used to enjoy it before it got too silly.
what's the technical difference between the pre-lp and the lp ?Topgear really does talk some rubbish and has no real substantiated view on any car they review these days, a great shame really as I used to enjoy it before it got too silly.
I think if you lost the aggressive nature of the egear it may lose the character of the car, which is basically what they were complaining about.
I drive a 2014 Golf R DSG daily and its superb but if the gear change on the Gallardo was as smooth I really think it would lose some of the feeling of a brutish car.
As mentioned above the only place I would complain about my egear is in stop start traffic but you learn to drive around it.
I drive a 2014 Golf R DSG daily and its superb but if the gear change on the Gallardo was as smooth I really think it would lose some of the feeling of a brutish car.
As mentioned above the only place I would complain about my egear is in stop start traffic but you learn to drive around it.
topjay said:
andrew said:
what's the technical difference between the pre-lp and the lp ?
Faster and more precise actuators I believe and new software, but not that much. http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/2222...
extracts from above:
chiefly the LP560-4 is about a brand new engine, which, says engineering chief Maurizio Reggiani, has no commonality with any 90-degree V10 that Audi might make apart from the odd pump (it has no fewer than three scavenge pumps for its dry sump) or sensor. Its capacity is up from 4961cc to 5204, taking power up by 39bhp to 552bhp (or 560 PS – hence the model name) at 8000rpm, while torque climbs from 376lb ft to 398 at the 6500rpm peak of a flatter torque curve. All that and CO2 down from 400g/km to 327. How? Mainly thanks to direct fuel injection with stratified charge (it sounds better if you say iniezione diretta stratificata), and the 12.5:1 compression ratio it allows because squirting the fuel directly into the cylinder has the effect of cooling the air that has been heated by compression. No production direct-injection engine has revved higher: its limit is 8500rpm. The bigger capacity comes partly from bigger bores, for which there was no room in the old engine, so there’s a new block with more widely spaced bore centres. That called for a longer crankshaft, for which Reggiani had doubts about the strength of the old engine’s split-crankpin design, so the new engine’s opposing cylinders share a common, unsplit crankpin and to hell with even firing intervals. To add further sonic mystery, each bank has a three-into-one and a two-into-one manifold, each ‘one’ then joining downstream.
Also new is the way the optional e-gear sequential gearbox selects its ratios, now by rotating cam instead of a pair of hydraulic rams. The result is shifts as quick as 120 milliseconds from torque cut to torque reinstatement (that is the whole shift, not just the gear engagement), down from 200ms. The new mechanism saves 13kg, too.
Then there’s the revised suspension with an extra toe-control link at the rear, plus lighter brakes with better ventilation. Indeed the whole car is lighter by 20kg, despite the engine weighing 10kg more.
And, in this e-gear car (as they all are here, like 90 per cent of customer cars) there’s a new ‘Corsa’ button, which activates the fastest gearshifts and the standing-back-with-arms-folded ESP mode. It gets pressed, but we’ll save killing the ESP completely for later.
If I don’t ease the throttle slightly the upshift has a savagery to match, but the downshift is perfect. Reggiani says the problem with a twin-clutch transmission is that customers prefer a gearchange to have a definite jerk when they’re trying hard (I don’t agree, and I expect you don’t either), and the e-gear provides this. It’s also lighter. Anyway, e-gear does give a scope for honing your skills in a way a twin-clutch system wouldn’t, and that is a good thing.
And if you want to find out just how mad the LP560-4 is there’s a ‘thrust’ control in the e-gear system, used when in automatic mode with Sport or Corsa in play. It’s like Ferrari’s launch control and it’s how you get the 0-62mph time down to 3.7sec and the 0-124mph to 11.8sec. Not that you ever would in a socially responsible Lamborghini, of course.
70proof said:
Andrew, I know you love your Gallardo, but the lp was more than a cosmetic facelift....
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/2222...
extracts from above:
If I don’t ease the throttle slightly the upshift has a savagery to match, but the downshift is perfect. Reggiani says the problem with a twin-clutch transmission is that customers prefer a gearchange to have a definite jerk when they’re trying hard (I don’t agree, and I expect you don’t either), and the e-gear provides this. It’s also lighter. Anyway, e-gear does give a scope for honing your skills in a way a twin-clutch system wouldn’t, and that is a good thing.
note journo saying I don't agree, and this is 2008.....http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/2222...
extracts from above:
If I don’t ease the throttle slightly the upshift has a savagery to match, but the downshift is perfect. Reggiani says the problem with a twin-clutch transmission is that customers prefer a gearchange to have a definite jerk when they’re trying hard (I don’t agree, and I expect you don’t either), and the e-gear provides this. It’s also lighter. Anyway, e-gear does give a scope for honing your skills in a way a twin-clutch system wouldn’t, and that is a good thing.
70proof said:
topjay said:
andrew said:
what's the technical difference between the pre-lp and the lp ?
Faster and more precise actuators I believe and new software, but not that much. almost worth the risk of being mistaken for you
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