Abusive Trolls and Bigots
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
I’m not sure why that on PH free speech is reported and posts deleted and potentially an individual banned.
Because this is a business. It's not your forum for free speech. It is 100% up to the owners and mods what you post.
PHs doesn't want to be associated with bigotry or racism. It's quite clear that you'll get banned for posting this kind of stuff or anything resembling it.
It's 100% up to the mods to decide where the line is.
Gavia said:
gooner1 said:
Just read the whole thread, what is it you were banned from and why?
The irony of the ban isn’t lost on me and I quite like it as it stops me reading their s
te. However, when they start spreading their bile, then it does get irritating. Welshbeef said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I think people are talking about two different things here:
1. People who are just abusive
2. People whose opinions we don't agree with (even to the point where those opinions are considered offensive)
I have reported people for item 1 - one the other day - when someone has just started dishing out insults from a standing start, but I've never done so for item 2. I think the best answer to opinions you disagree with is to argue back, but I do understand that there's a point when offensive becomes illegal these days. Then report!
Point 2 is very interesting. 1. People who are just abusive
2. People whose opinions we don't agree with (even to the point where those opinions are considered offensive)
I have reported people for item 1 - one the other day - when someone has just started dishing out insults from a standing start, but I've never done so for item 2. I think the best answer to opinions you disagree with is to argue back, but I do understand that there's a point when offensive becomes illegal these days. Then report!
We live in a country of legal free speech. This is why we cannot do anything about A Chaudry and others speaking pubkically which might cause violence.
Take universities free speech and specifically very challenging views are welcomed in open debate
I’m not sure why that on PH free speech is reported and posts deleted and potentially an individual banned.
Point 1 absolutely.
Point 2 open debate - provided it doesn’t turn into bits of point 1 (it can be the individual who has come out with a highly controversial point then gets posts from others who basically call them racist scum and far worse and that thread and then go on and wherever that individual posts they pop along and do it. In my view those should be banned).
I guess the scale of a website is too big to patrol given number of (paid?) MODs. Plus those who report issues they might be reporting pure free speech which they happen to disagree with which isn’t against the T&Cs of this website.
Take it to the extreme it means you cannot discuss
Religion
Politics
Culture
Economy
Relationships and sex
Gavia said:
gooner1 said:
Just read the whole thread, what is it you were banned from and why?
The irony of the ban isn’t lost on me and I quite like it as it stops me reading their s
te. However, when they start spreading their bile, then it does get irritating. Pica-Pica said:
Gavia said:
gooner1 said:
Just read the whole thread, what is it you were banned from and why?
The irony of the ban isn’t lost on me and I quite like it as it stops me reading their s
te. However, when they start spreading their bile, then it does get irritating. Perhaps it's not reported often?
NPE is a dump right now, it's dominated by people that don't know how to debate and/or abuse anyone that disagrees with them. As a result loads of knowledgeable contributors have given up. It's been getting steadily worse over the last few years.
It used to be that NPE was ahead of the curve when it came to discussing interesting stuff going on in the world, now stuff often goes with no comment at all because those that are left are too busy arguing about who did what and what they really meant and then dishing out insults vaguely related to Brexit.
It's up to the bosses how they want the forum to be, my opinion is that there are 5-10 people that need to be binned off to enable discussion to take place. I report posts that cross the line based on the forum rules, but nothing ever happens, so I presume I'm out of step with how Haymarket want the forums to run, but that's their call. I tend to vote with my feet.
It used to be that NPE was ahead of the curve when it came to discussing interesting stuff going on in the world, now stuff often goes with no comment at all because those that are left are too busy arguing about who did what and what they really meant and then dishing out insults vaguely related to Brexit.
It's up to the bosses how they want the forum to be, my opinion is that there are 5-10 people that need to be binned off to enable discussion to take place. I report posts that cross the line based on the forum rules, but nothing ever happens, so I presume I'm out of step with how Haymarket want the forums to run, but that's their call. I tend to vote with my feet.
Funkycoldribena said:
Maybe a safe space forum is needed.
Can chat about rainbows and candy floss all day long then without fear.
I’m sure that exists for people that want one, Can chat about rainbows and candy floss all day long then without fear.
The point is that the forum rules are whatever the owners decide. Pointless going into a forum with one set of rules and complaining about what you can or can’t discuss.
Presumably there are loads of less politically correct forums where you can say what you want?
paulrockliffe said:
It's up to the bosses how they want the forum to be, my opinion is that there are 5-10 people that need to be binned off to enable discussion to take place. I report posts that cross the line based on the forum rules, but nothing ever happens, so I presume I'm out of step with how Haymarket want the forums to run, but that's their call. I tend to vote with my feet.
I expect it’s a numbers game. You might complain about something and if nobody else does then it gets to run.I’m. It sure how it works but I imagine there’s loads of complaints and up till now the mods weren’t full time but other posters trying to enjoy the forum too.
Have these external third party mods started yet? There was a notice a while ago but it seems to have gone quiet.
Gavia said:
Well said.
I’ve reported several posts today from SP&L that are quite disgusting, yet they remain there.
I also reported several posts in the same thread around tea-time, this thread was started after several hours of in-action, and the appearance of more abusive posts added by the same people, decided to post this.I’ve reported several posts today from SP&L that are quite disgusting, yet they remain there.
I've come to expect content free abuse on NP&E dragging it into the gutter and rarely bother with it any more, but the trollish types have followed reasonable posters into SP&L. This shows their intent is to cause arguments not rationally discus topics.
Pointed question to mods: What has child-abuse got to do with a thread about legalities around super-car hire?
Answer: The only connection is they are both topics that bigots like to use for racial stereotyping.
rallycross said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
A point in case. You don't know this person, never interacted with them, yet your opening reply is a baseless insult. Please feel free to fk off.
I have no idea what he is referring to, just a random statement that sounds like this forum is bad.k off. But in fact its one of the best forums you will find anywhere, with lots of good content from knowledgeable people (car or non car related topics).
What was he talking about?
QED on my original post.
Funkycoldribena said:
Maybe a safe space forum is needed.
Can chat about rainbows and candy floss all day long then without fear.
That’s a classic approach from NP&E. It seems to work like thisCan chat about rainbows and candy floss all day long then without fear.
NP&E poster - Here’s some racist / highly offensive / bordering on or are illegal statements
Rational person - that’s racist / offensive / bordering on, or is illegal
NP&E poster - diddums snowflake, ask for a safe place
It seems to completely pass them by that few of us are actually snowflakes, but are simply pointing out that their words are not acceptable in a reasonable society. There lies the crux of the issue now spreading across PH. Posters feel they can say or do anything without fear of consequence and their response is one of a bully.
There is also the mob rule approach, which had I posted this on NP&E would’ve resulted in a game of ad hominem abuse to see who could take it the furthest, followed by a round a backslapping and mutual masturbation about how amazing they are at debating issues.
4x4Tyke said:
rallycross said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
A point in case. You don't know this person, never interacted with them, yet your opening reply is a baseless insult. Please feel free to fk off.
I have no idea what he is referring to, just a random statement that sounds like this forum is bad.k off. But in fact its one of the best forums you will find anywhere, with lots of good content from knowledgeable people (car or non car related topics).
What was he talking about?
QED on my original post.
Gavia said:
That’s a classic approach from NP&E. It seems to work like this
NP&E poster - Here’s some racist / highly offensive / bordering on or are illegal statements
Rational person - that’s racist / offensive / bordering on, or is illegal
NP&E poster - diddums snowflake, ask for a safe place
It seems to completely pass them by that few of us are actually snowflakes, but are simply pointing out that their words are not acceptable in a reasonable society. There lies the crux of the issue now spreading across PH. Posters feel they can say or do anything without fear of consequence and their response is one of a bully.
There is also the mob rule approach, which had I posted this on NP&E would’ve resulted in a game of ad hominem abuse to see who could take it the furthest, followed by a round a backslapping and mutual masturbation about how amazing they are at debating issues.
Im sure I've been through this with you before but what you think is racist etc is not what a lot of others define as racist.NP&E poster - Here’s some racist / highly offensive / bordering on or are illegal statements
Rational person - that’s racist / offensive / bordering on, or is illegal
NP&E poster - diddums snowflake, ask for a safe place
It seems to completely pass them by that few of us are actually snowflakes, but are simply pointing out that their words are not acceptable in a reasonable society. There lies the crux of the issue now spreading across PH. Posters feel they can say or do anything without fear of consequence and their response is one of a bully.
There is also the mob rule approach, which had I posted this on NP&E would’ve resulted in a game of ad hominem abuse to see who could take it the furthest, followed by a round a backslapping and mutual masturbation about how amazing they are at debating issues.
Funkycoldribena said:
I'm just utterly baffled why people get so offended over words on a forum.
Its a big world out there and you'll hear all sorts, or maybe some just spend their lives cocooned from it?
I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to debate the topic, rather than the poster. However, some posters seem to have reversed that approach and contribute little or nothing to threads other than sarcastic comments about others and nothing about the subject.Its a big world out there and you'll hear all sorts, or maybe some just spend their lives cocooned from it?
Welshbeef said:
I think the issues might be
1. Far too many people reporting things which might be a bit wrong but that is all
2. Far too many posts to deal with vs the number of MODs
3. A herd mentality from some PH against those they believe have done wrong even if they have been reprimanded by the MODs. They then are in effect trolling an individual.
4. The west is getting more and more disjointed with more and more polar views which cause conflict
5. People post very late at night and some post utter nonsence is drunk or drugged up posting - which then others respond to.
6. Reality is IF someone is ever banned in reality it would take probably less than a minute to use a different email address and create a new user name.
7. Sometimes things which are typed don’t come out as the poster expected. Ie it sounds better to say it (maybe) than to type it.
8. Far too many “quote” a post as some sort of evidence so if a poster wanted to delete a post that had been made in error or was over the line then hey could themselves delete but sadly someone else is acting as judge and juror trying to get one over another.
9. People react differently online to what they are like in real life. Some clearly go on a wind up permantly some as a one off.
10. Some people do have mental illness or say bi polar and can post things as their state changes. No one knows apart from what they read but they then hound out that individual. Some posters keep following a poster and post up on any topic that person posts on as a bullying tactic.
Solution for any Internet forum is to make it a pay for subscription that would eliminate the vast majority of trolls in one sweep. But the rate needs to be right else just like he Labour £3votr when loads of Torys joined to back Jeremy Corbyn happened people thought it would be a laugh. If it was £100 unlikely you’d have trolls - unless some individuals genuinely have that type of personality.
What do you think the solution is? Specifically on some of the points above
1. The posts I reported were not edge cases.1. Far too many people reporting things which might be a bit wrong but that is all
2. Far too many posts to deal with vs the number of MODs
3. A herd mentality from some PH against those they believe have done wrong even if they have been reprimanded by the MODs. They then are in effect trolling an individual.
4. The west is getting more and more disjointed with more and more polar views which cause conflict
5. People post very late at night and some post utter nonsence is drunk or drugged up posting - which then others respond to.
6. Reality is IF someone is ever banned in reality it would take probably less than a minute to use a different email address and create a new user name.
7. Sometimes things which are typed don’t come out as the poster expected. Ie it sounds better to say it (maybe) than to type it.
8. Far too many “quote” a post as some sort of evidence so if a poster wanted to delete a post that had been made in error or was over the line then hey could themselves delete but sadly someone else is acting as judge and juror trying to get one over another.
9. People react differently online to what they are like in real life. Some clearly go on a wind up permantly some as a one off.
10. Some people do have mental illness or say bi polar and can post things as their state changes. No one knows apart from what they read but they then hound out that individual. Some posters keep following a poster and post up on any topic that person posts on as a bullying tactic.
Solution for any Internet forum is to make it a pay for subscription that would eliminate the vast majority of trolls in one sweep. But the rate needs to be right else just like he Labour £3votr when loads of Torys joined to back Jeremy Corbyn happened people thought it would be a laugh. If it was £100 unlikely you’d have trolls - unless some individuals genuinely have that type of personality.
What do you think the solution is? Specifically on some of the points above
2. Bans would ease that problem.
3,4,5. Fair enough, but bullying could be considered a better description and more importantly do not excuse those breaking the rules.
6. Bans would take less time than moderating lots of posts and shift the time burden onto the trolls to create new email and PH accounts.
7. same as 3/4/5.
8. fair comment, I endeavour to avoid that myself, If I bother to reply at all.
9. fair comment, but again that is not a good reason for inaction.
10. Not really an excuse for abuse.
The entire internet is looking for a solution and it is not easy, banning abusive accounts is one step in the right direction. PH is not 4chan/reddit, though reddit has been making moves to curb the worst abuses over the last year or so.
--- edit for grammar ---
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Friday 20th October 14:50
rscott said:
I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to debate the topic, rather than the poster. However, some posters seem to have reversed that approach and contribute little or nothing to threads other than sarcastic comments about others and nothing about the subject.
And you're completely innocent of that are you?Funkycoldribena said:
rscott said:
I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to debate the topic, rather than the poster. However, some posters seem to have reversed that approach and contribute little or nothing to threads other than sarcastic comments about others and nothing about the subject.
And you're completely innocent of that are you?Gassing Station | Website Feedback | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff