Lain Tyrrell's Best Yet, Ferruccio's Personal Countach

[456mgt]

carspath said:

Do you know what would make the steering system on a Camper particularly suited to adding on a power-steering system ?
Is it anything to do with the steering ratio ?

Don't think it's especially suited to a camper, per se, I just used that as an example of world-class slop even when the original system is perfect, and power steering is a recognised solution. You can certainly change the gearing, number of turns lock to lock, but the principal effect seems to be that hydraulics are better at controlling the steering arms than a mechanical gear.

On a broader note, I truly get why Harry Metcalf would want to sacrifice the originality of his car. Once the honeymoon period is over and you get over the 'how cool is this' aspect of the car, you start to see the limitations. And some aspects can really piss you off, to the extent that you either stop driving it, improve it or move the car on.

You might disapprove of what I've done with the Miura, but honestly, the early Miuras weren't that well engineered or well built, so I had mine restored and converted to SV spec. The main thing is widened rear track to get around bump steer; when you hit a bump it had a tendency to steer from the rear and you end up on the other side of the road. You can either think of this as faithful period handling or bloody scary. The other big improvements are vastly improved braking and a modern radiator core, so I'm no longer terrified of being stuck in traffic. Stuff like this transforms the ownership experience- a bit like Iain Tyrrell was saying about the door not opening properly, but multiplied a few times!

[P5BNij]

IIRC, several Miuras went back to the factory in period for upgrading to S / SV spec, to me it's par for the course and those upgrades form part of those car's history. Doing the same or similar upgrades forty or fifty years later is no different as far as I see it. I do understand why some owners / enthusiasts won't agree, but ce la vie.

[stevewak]

P5BNij said:

IIRC, several Miuras went back to the factory in period for upgrading to S / SV spec, to me it's par for the course and those upgrades form part of those car's history. Doing the same or similar upgrades forty or fifty years later is no different as far as I see it. I do understand why some owners / enthusiasts won't agree, but ce la vie.

No they did not. Not in the life of the Miura. Some were replaced with new cars after crashes. New production number, same chassis number to save tax. Some were done three times and all are recorded.

“Upgraded to S (or SV)” is 100% car dealer BS.

They ran out of the non-SV front clamshells near the end so badly crashed P400s and Ss received these fronts. Not as an “upgrade” it was just all they had. Like the gold car Tyrrell is working on for the second time redoing previous mistakes.

[P5BNij]

Fair enough.

[carspath]

Hi again 456 mgt ,

Yes I can see that you have identified fundamental issues , and having given them considerable thought , decided to rectify those issues through limited and targeted modifications .
I entirely respect that approach .

I'm no Miura expert , but i think that Lamborghini themselves identified handling , cooling and braking issues with the early Miuras , and worked towards improving these less than perfect traits , with subsequent variants
.
So taking the steps that you have mentioned are a logical progression on the factory's own direction of travel , and while not remaining 100 % original , makes the car safer while not robbing it of its fundamental character .

This same logic can legitimately be applied to the Countach and power-steering ( after all the factory itself identified the ''heavy'' steering as an issue and addressed it in the later Diablos ) , but for me the main problems with the Countach were its poor sightlines ( above everything else +++ ) , its width , and the unwanted attention it garners .

For me the steering weight was / is not an issue - in fact i like working against that weight .

Also , nowadays there are very few of us that drive a Countach for any distance regularly , so its a joy to go back in time when driving the Sant' Agata classic ( and once you are over about 20 mph its pretty much like driving a normal car anyway ) . And there are no real safety issues addressed by adding on the PAS ( tiredness and fatigue means the drive should have been discontinued already )

For me power-steering in a Countach is very much a solution looking for a problem , but hey ho , that's just me

I hope this explains my position .

[stevewak]

carspath said:

I'm no Miura expert , but i think that Lamborghini themselves identified handling , cooling and braking issues with the early Miuras , and worked towards improving these less than perfect traits , with subsequent variants

Very good point, they did. But outside a few very very early cars where they modded them slightly on first service, they wanted people to buy the latest car which was usually better. P400 had many changes to chassis and interior throughout its life, P400S was better and later had a/c and vented discs, SV had different chassis, body, suspension, wheels and tyres, and usually a/c. All engines produced same power - later SVs were split sump and had LSD as an option.

The dealer/auction house BS comes in when they have to handle modded cars from Japan (stupid wings, wide wheels), US (hideous colours and SV bits to pump them up a bit) or bitzas. The latter were common up to 20 or so years ago as so many cars were crashed or burnt or, in particular in Italy, stolen. So a P400 plate might be fixed to what is clearly a P400S - with S production numbers all over it, likely stolen - and someone states it had been 'upgraded to 'S', or 'rechassised', as so many cars actually were and recorded as such. 'Upgraded to vented discs' might mean it's a mix of cars. 'SV mods done at the factory' as earlier post with final SV-only clamshells.

Most interiors were vinyl or vinyl/velour.

Bigger wheels and tyres are a matter of taste. Split sump ditto, as is a fire system. As long as honestly described.