Mclaren - track day tyre choice

[squirejo]

isaldiri said:

Pete, the pilot sport 4 would be the ps3 replacement though surely not the supersport replacement?

according to a decent article in this months Evo, it is, despite the naming convention, the supersport replacement.

[cho]

Don't know anything about tyres but the Michelin Facebook page mentioned that the PS4 is a replacement for the PS3's. Still not able to get anything for Mclaren

[Dblue]

isaldiri said:

Dblue said:

Supersports are fantastic tyres. Near Cup levels of grip, much better when cold and 300 wear rating!!! Can personally vouch for the longevity after our Spain trip

BUT Michelins new Pilot Sport 4 is on the way and they are talking it right up.

Pete, the pilot sport 4 would be the ps3 replacement though surely not the supersport replacement?

Apparently not ST, Michelin are being as confusing as possible and going back to the old nomenclature. So PS4 is the replacement for Supersport (And indirectly the old PS2 ) rather than PS3!

Nearly as confused and mixed up a naming policy as mcLaren themselves

[isaldiri]

Dblue said:

Apparently not ST, Michelin are being as confusing as possible and going back to the old nomenclature. So PS4 is the replacement for Supersport (And indirectly the old PS2 ) rather than PS3!

Nearly as confused and mixed up a naming policy as mcLaren themselves

Hah! so the PS4 is the tyre Michelin always wanted to make now from the SS

Good to know, am changing to cup2s on the 12c in a couple of weeks so have lots of choice when I switch back I guess...

[TISPKJ]

TISPKJ said:

I have today ordered the MPSC2 so will post once on the car in road use, and another when I do a trackday.

So as promised some good news and bad news ....
On the road there is no issue with the tyres at all, and on track they stick like you know what !

Now the downside, on the rear they do rub on the inside front edge,(first picture) and mine due to the design of the crappy carpet they call inner wheel arch liners the back on the nearside (second picture).
Like I say this is due to the inner wheel arch protector being distorted slightly so in most cases I would suggest it will be ok, but not on the inner edge.
My guess is that once on track the air pressure is reducing the size of the liners and flexing them such that they rub on the tyres, of course the tyres will also increase slightly in size also.
so for the next trackday I think I will remove the rear inner wheel arches after speaking with McLaren.

sorry just found I cant post pictures from work will do later

[TISPKJ]

[TISPKJ]

[isaldiri]

Tispkj - were you running the car in track suspension mode? Also which track were you at could I ask? Typically the liners are not an issue at tracks without a lot of undulation (ie like Spa/'ring). Brands is the only UK circuit I would have thought might have an issue.

The liners cover quite a few exposed bits and bobs like hoses and wires that you don't want damaged, I don't think it's a good idea to remove them personally.

[TISPKJ]

isaldiri said:

Tispkj - were you running the car in track suspension mode? Also which track were you at could I ask? Typically the liners are not an issue at tracks without a lot of undulation (ie like Spa/'ring). Brands is the only UK circuit I would have thought might have an issue.

The liners cover quite a few exposed bits and bobs like hoses and wires that you don't want damaged, I don't think it's a good idea to remove them personally.

ah, that's a good point actually and I remember reading it maybe on this thread.
In short No I didn't, I was running the car at Brands Indy circuit and at the noise test they were uming and ahing about if it would be ok to go on track, I promised to keep it in std power setting so as not to open the exhaust valves as I didn't want to get thrown off,(for the record with sports exhaust the car is fine like this, friends commented how quite the car was so once rolling I recon you could get away with sport engine mode) from memory I had the handling in sport, I did put handling in track briefly until I realised the orange light on dash meant traction control was off !!
not wishing to sound like a girl but was my first track day in the 12c and first for 3-4 years so didn't want any dramas, I am booked on the GP circuit in June

Have not removed liners as yet to look whats behind but take your point.

[barchetta_boy]

Slightly off topic but related to your last post: my understanding is that the sports exhaust gets no louder nor quieter in different modes, its just the Intake Sound Generator that changes and lets more noise into the cabin. Is that not correct?

Shame about the tyres, I would love to move off Pirellis onto Pilot Sport Cup 2s or indeed Pilot Super Sports.

[TISPKJ]

barchetta_boy said:

Slightly off topic but related to your last post: my understanding is that the sports exhaust gets no louder nor quieter in different modes, its just the Intake Sound Generator that changes and lets more noise into the cabin. Is that not correct?

Shame about the tyres, I would love to move off Pirellis onto Pilot Sport Cup 2s or indeed Pilot Super Sports.

Others can confirm but I am fairly sure the exhaust does get louder once powertrain is in sport or track mode, it certainly seems that way with the window open.

I got shafted by MSV a few years back in a 911 to the tune of £250, a days holiday, and 5 hours travelling and fuel so didn't want to repeat the process.

Part of the issue is that they want around 6k revs for the noise test and you cant get 6k in std mode it has to be sport otherwise it will only rev to something like 4k, at the test it was just over so wanted to play safe and I was not out to break any records just try the car for the first time.

On reflection Im sure sport mode would have been fine, I just didn't want the hassle TBH and the car was so quick anyway didn't need if that makes sense.

[TISPKJ]

Ok so this has been annoying me all afternoon, has to be a reason so popped in the garage when I got home.

The MPSC2 are physically a touch bigger than the pirellis, measurements are as accurate as I can get them.
Pirelli std fitment are 307mm wide x 684mm high
MPSC2 same size are 313mm wide x 695 high
We are only talking a few mm here but seems to make enough of a difference

[TISPKJ]

Hope this helps others but what's the answer ? Well in hindsight and armed with the above info I would suggest either running 295's on the rear or a set of maybe 20mm spacers and longer bolts.

[isaldiri]

TISPKJ said:

ah, that's a good point actually and I remember reading it maybe on this thread.
In short No I didn't, I was running the car at Brands Indy circuit and at the noise test they were uming and ahing about if it would be ok to go on track, I promised to keep it in std power setting so as not to open the exhaust valves as I didn't want to get thrown off,(for the record with sports exhaust the car is fine like this, friends commented how quite the car was so once rolling I recon you could get away with sport engine mode) from memory I had the handling in sport, I did put handling in track briefly until I realised the orange light on dash meant traction control was off !!
not wishing to sound like a girl but was my first track day in the 12c and first for 3-4 years so didn't want any dramas, I am booked on the GP circuit in June

Have not removed liners as yet to look whats behind but take your point.

Thanks for the update and the measurements. Very useful.

I would suggest keeping an eye on the existing wear on the liners and run the car again on track suspension mode and take a look again after a few laps if there is more wear. Trust me on this, traction control off as per track mode handling on the 12c is most definitely not off and you still have a very decent electronic safety net if it's a dry track. There is really very little to worry about on track mode in the 12c (unlike the 650 where track really means off) and imo on almost all tracks you will find the car much sharper and fun to drive to boot.

Otherwise using 10mm spacers on the rear would be my suggestion but you will need longer wheel bolts. Edit just saw your later post. I believe you wouldn't need 20mm spacers and personally I wouldn't use a narrower rear. A wider front would be tempting though...

Edited by isaldiri on Thursday 12th May 23:13

[isaldiri]

barchetta_boy said:

Shame about the tyres, I would love to move off Pirellis onto Pilot Sport Cup 2s or indeed Pilot Super Sports.

I have been running my car with supersports without major issues but tracking the car will require going to track mode to preserve the liners on some tracks. At my speed on track anyway i hasten to add. If you are running 7:30BTG at the ring or 2:42 at Spa, I can't vouch for the safety of the liners.....

[TISPKJ]

isaldiri said:

Thanks for the update and the measurements. Very useful.

I would suggest keeping an eye on the existing wear on the liners and run the car again on track suspension mode and take a look again after a few laps if there is more wear.

Otherwise using 10mm spacers on the rear would be my suggestion but you will need longer wheel bolts.
I believe you wouldn't need 20mm spacers

personally I wouldn't use a narrower rear.

]

Yeah no point in fitting new liners at this stage, will try track mode as you suggest and see if it makes any odds ( I cant see it making any difference personally as car rides flat anyway)

10mm spacers may do the job however looks wise the car could do with a wider stance. ........ any idea where we can get spacers ? ...... I was going to try Hills Engineering if I do have to go down that route

looking at those measurements you wouldn't be using a narrower rear tyre, Michelins 305 is actually a 315, so on that basis we could run a 295 which in reality should be a 305

[isaldiri]

TISPKJ said:

Yeah no point in fitting new liners at this stage, will try track mode as you suggest and see if it makes any odds ( I cant see it making any difference personally as car rides flat anyway)

10mm spacers may do the job however looks wise the car could do with a wider stance. ........ any idea where we can get spacers ? ...... I was going to try Hills Engineering if I do have to go down that route
5

I'll ask a friend where he got the spacers as he has fitted them before.

personally for me track suspension mode made a decent difference. I wore through the rear liners after a day at the ring on sport hajdling mode and since changing to using track (not ideal there tbh) have done 3 days without issue.

[TISPKJ]

isaldiri said:

I'll ask a friend where he got the spacers as he has fitted them before.

personally for me track suspension mode made a decent difference. I wore through the rear liners after a day at the ring on sport hajdling mode and since changing to using track (not ideal there tbh) have done 3 days without issue.

But I thought you were not running MPSC on the car yet ?

[isaldiri]

TISPKJ said:

But I thought you were not running MPSC on the car yet ?

Not yet yes. Supersports on my car. It has a considerably squarer shoulder than the pzero and it's not far off a cup2 by my reckoning. I think the same will apply with cups when I do the switch with regards to handling modes.

[TISPKJ]

isaldiri said:

TISPKJ said:

But I thought you were not running MPSC on the car yet ?

Not yet yes. Supersports on my car. It has a considerably squarer shoulder than the pzero and it's not far off a cup2 by my reckoning. I think the same will apply with cups when I do the switch with regards to handling modes.

If I were you knowing what I know now I would either fit 15mm spacers or 295 MPSC2 section rears.
I haven't got a proper quote yet but am told the inner arches are circa £350 a side !