Discussion
MisterJD said:
BoxerF50 said:
On the P1, as they age, think the battery will become an increasing issue.
Would that also apply to the 918 and the La Ferrari? I guess we might find out soon if owners can't stomach the battery replacement costs.
red_duke said:
MisterJD said:
BoxerF50 said:
On the P1, as they age, think the battery will become an increasing issue.
Would that also apply to the 918 and the La Ferrari? I guess we might find out soon if owners can't stomach the battery replacement costs.
From karenable.com:
We have parted ways with the McLaren P1. It was a very tough decision driven by two issues; the hybrid system and it just wasn’t getting used. The former was the key driver but the later certainly didn’t help the P1’s case. The arrival of the McLaren 675LT Spider was also a contributing factor although it probably shouldn’t have been. The 675LT Spider did have a noticeable impact on the P1’s road time.
The P1’s hybrid system is a technological marvel. The combination of gas and electric engines work in tandem to completely eliminate any noticeable turbo lag and help the P1 deliver crushing linear acceleration by seamlessly filling in the gaps in the twin turbo V8’s power curve. The P1 can also operate in full electric mode for short distances, allowing you to glide stealthy through town. The downsides to this are the extra 155 Lbs of batteries mounted directly behind the back wall of the passenger cabin and the fact that the P1 needs to be kept on a massive battery conditioner whenever it is garaged. If the batteries go dead, McLaren will happy replace them for a figure north of $70k. I know of several cases where this has happened. It’s the massive iron battery conditioner which is the weak link in this whole system though. If you have a power outage, you need to manual restart the battery conditioner when power is restored. For most owners this is probably not a major issue or concern. In my case it became a major risk factor as I travel extensively, in many instances for multiple weeks at a time, and live in an area that seems to get hit by power outages at least once every few weeks. Hence every vacation and long business trip came with a potential extra $70k surcharge.
The other major factor driving the P1’s departure was just a general lack of use. We have a family rule that cars that aren’t getting regular use get sent on to new homes. While the P1 was a phenomenal car to drive, there simply aren’t any roads near us where you could enjoy and exploit its abilities. Generally poor condition dead straight sun baked concrete highways do not bring out the best in the mighty Mac. Hence the P1 just wasn’t seeing that much road time and in several instances, it was more than a month between outings. Unlike a few other cars that we have sent north to live at our place in the mountains, because of the above nature of the batteries, this was simply not an option with the P1.
In the introduction I mentioned that the arrival of the 675LT Spider also impacted the P1’s road time. While it was not direct in terms of a “which key to grab” situation as the P1 & 675LT Spider only shared a garage for a very limited period of time, it was again battery related. As the 675LT Spider is not a hybrid requiring 24/7 adult supervision, this allowed us to leave the car in different areas in the US for use on multiple long road trips over several months. Over one six-month period we ended putting 10x the number of miles on the 675LT Spider as we did on the P1.
In the end, parting with the P1 was neither the most difficult car related divorce I have gone through, nor the easiest. We never really bonded tightly as we never really had the chance to. The relationship was hobbled from day one by location and ultimately severed by the substantial risk on the replacement cost of the batteries. Would I acquire one again if our situation and location changed, yes absolutely. During the few instances where I did get a chance to open the P1 up, it is simply the most awe inspiring car I have ever driven
We have parted ways with the McLaren P1. It was a very tough decision driven by two issues; the hybrid system and it just wasn’t getting used. The former was the key driver but the later certainly didn’t help the P1’s case. The arrival of the McLaren 675LT Spider was also a contributing factor although it probably shouldn’t have been. The 675LT Spider did have a noticeable impact on the P1’s road time.
The P1’s hybrid system is a technological marvel. The combination of gas and electric engines work in tandem to completely eliminate any noticeable turbo lag and help the P1 deliver crushing linear acceleration by seamlessly filling in the gaps in the twin turbo V8’s power curve. The P1 can also operate in full electric mode for short distances, allowing you to glide stealthy through town. The downsides to this are the extra 155 Lbs of batteries mounted directly behind the back wall of the passenger cabin and the fact that the P1 needs to be kept on a massive battery conditioner whenever it is garaged. If the batteries go dead, McLaren will happy replace them for a figure north of $70k. I know of several cases where this has happened. It’s the massive iron battery conditioner which is the weak link in this whole system though. If you have a power outage, you need to manual restart the battery conditioner when power is restored. For most owners this is probably not a major issue or concern. In my case it became a major risk factor as I travel extensively, in many instances for multiple weeks at a time, and live in an area that seems to get hit by power outages at least once every few weeks. Hence every vacation and long business trip came with a potential extra $70k surcharge.
The other major factor driving the P1’s departure was just a general lack of use. We have a family rule that cars that aren’t getting regular use get sent on to new homes. While the P1 was a phenomenal car to drive, there simply aren’t any roads near us where you could enjoy and exploit its abilities. Generally poor condition dead straight sun baked concrete highways do not bring out the best in the mighty Mac. Hence the P1 just wasn’t seeing that much road time and in several instances, it was more than a month between outings. Unlike a few other cars that we have sent north to live at our place in the mountains, because of the above nature of the batteries, this was simply not an option with the P1.
In the introduction I mentioned that the arrival of the 675LT Spider also impacted the P1’s road time. While it was not direct in terms of a “which key to grab” situation as the P1 & 675LT Spider only shared a garage for a very limited period of time, it was again battery related. As the 675LT Spider is not a hybrid requiring 24/7 adult supervision, this allowed us to leave the car in different areas in the US for use on multiple long road trips over several months. Over one six-month period we ended putting 10x the number of miles on the 675LT Spider as we did on the P1.
In the end, parting with the P1 was neither the most difficult car related divorce I have gone through, nor the easiest. We never really bonded tightly as we never really had the chance to. The relationship was hobbled from day one by location and ultimately severed by the substantial risk on the replacement cost of the batteries. Would I acquire one again if our situation and location changed, yes absolutely. During the few instances where I did get a chance to open the P1 up, it is simply the most awe inspiring car I have ever driven
BoxerF50 said:
Petrus1983 said:
Seeing as there's been a bit of a thread resurrection how are you finding the car now a few years on?
We have parted with the P1. Article on the reasons why is posted elsewhere. The PH censors will not allow me to post the link or even name the site however.....
Still loving my P1 and no plans to sell it, no other car comes close to the looks, thrill to drive and general sense of occasion
Has cost me hardly anything to run in past couple of years, other than insurance, and hybrid system still working perfectly
Only issue is it makes all other supercars look and feel very ordinary
Has cost me hardly anything to run in past couple of years, other than insurance, and hybrid system still working perfectly
Only issue is it makes all other supercars look and feel very ordinary
Would add that I don't understand the concern ref batteries on these Hybrid Hypercars, its what makes them sensational to drive, with all the noise and drama of an IC engine combined with the wall of torque from the electric system.
If the batteries do fail, you replace the batteries at what 5% of the value of the car? No big deal
Personally I'm hoping we never see cars like the P1, La Ferrari and 918 again. They will stand out in the future as marvels of technology in their time, mixing old and new to create something unique and thrilling.
SteelySteve said:
Still loving my P1 and no plans to sell it, no other car comes close to the looks, thrill to drive and general sense of occasion
Has cost me hardly anything to run in past couple of years, other than insurance, and hybrid system still working perfectly
Only issue is it makes all other supercars look and feel very ordinary
will be interesting to see how the Senna comparesHas cost me hardly anything to run in past couple of years, other than insurance, and hybrid system still working perfectly
Only issue is it makes all other supercars look and feel very ordinary
A better bet in those circumstances would be an intergrated into the homepower supply auto start back up generator, circa £10,000 or so for a 12kw unit.
As Steve alludes to, I guess the long term costs on such a special car are all relative to both the value of the car & depth of pocket of the fortunate owners who have amassed the wherewithal to secure one!
As Steve alludes to, I guess the long term costs on such a special car are all relative to both the value of the car & depth of pocket of the fortunate owners who have amassed the wherewithal to secure one!
Wow, what a massive design flaw by McLaren.
Not in the same league obviously, but a hybrid i8 can be left unplugged for at least 6 months without any problem to its batteries. Plugged in, it can be left effectively indefinitely. Power outages make no difference, as it simply restarts trickle charging.
But the biggest thing is that IIRC the battery pack is about $10k or so to replace. It's about 100kg, so slightly bigger than the P1 battery pack too.
Not in the same league obviously, but a hybrid i8 can be left unplugged for at least 6 months without any problem to its batteries. Plugged in, it can be left effectively indefinitely. Power outages make no difference, as it simply restarts trickle charging.
But the biggest thing is that IIRC the battery pack is about $10k or so to replace. It's about 100kg, so slightly bigger than the P1 battery pack too.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
utgjon said:
Am I wrong in thinking that all that bloke would need to do to mitigate the battery drain risk would be to hook it up to a UPS? Doesn't seem like the biggest issue in the world to solve.
Or Irony overload... solar panels on the roof to a Tesla Power wall and a charger? To be honest power outage is a none issue if you have the space & of course the level of interest to solve it, just need a spot for an auto start LPG back up genny & LPG tank.
If you really wanted to have it covered you could just fit a massive LPG storage tank (underground if conditions allow, up to 24,000 ltrs if you are really serious about it.
That would run an 11 KVA for about 140 days 24 hrs a day (ok genny oil level may become an issue prior to that!) they are wired onto the house main electrical supply with an auto sensing switch that starts the genny in the event of power failure & switches it back off again when the power supply returns.
The genny wouldn't coke up as suggested as it would actually be running the whole house hold too not just the car charger, i.e. standby power for TV's any lighting / heating / fridges / freezers / CCTV / Alarms etc.
Also its very clean burn running on LPG so sooting up is not an issue anyway.
If you really wanted to have it covered you could just fit a massive LPG storage tank (underground if conditions allow, up to 24,000 ltrs if you are really serious about it.
That would run an 11 KVA for about 140 days 24 hrs a day (ok genny oil level may become an issue prior to that!) they are wired onto the house main electrical supply with an auto sensing switch that starts the genny in the event of power failure & switches it back off again when the power supply returns.
The genny wouldn't coke up as suggested as it would actually be running the whole house hold too not just the car charger, i.e. standby power for TV's any lighting / heating / fridges / freezers / CCTV / Alarms etc.
Also its very clean burn running on LPG so sooting up is not an issue anyway.
Edited by dsl2 on Wednesday 25th April 07:40
SteelySteve said:
WCZ said:
will be interesting to see how the Senna compares
Senna as fast if not faster I expect, but I doubt it’s half the experience of a P1. I’m personally not bought into what would appear to be a 720s with extensive aero mods and a very hefty price tagThe P1 looks about a hundred times better, and that is part of the experience. It's also more complex (apart from the aero), and that is another part of the experience. Some people might prefer all the P1's hissing and wheezing (although I found them annoying), and those sounds are definitely another part of the experience.
On the other hand, the P1 was only the second model that McLaren made, and the fact that McLaren were still learning how to design user interfaces was pretty obvious. The P15 is another four models on from the P1, and McLaren are starting to figure it out.
For me, the main difference will be weight. The P1 was simply too heavy to be a good track car, and of course weight is noticeable on the road too. Lateral grip and braking distances should be an order of magnitude better in the P15 than they were in the P1. They tell me that steering and brake feel are improved as well.
In next week's Autocar Matt Prior will write about his first drive in a P15. He is a big fan of the P1, and I would expect him to reference that benchmark in his article.
It's a horses-for-courses thing. The hybrid feature was a core element of the P1 concept. For some people the hybrid feature added to the P1 experience, but for others of us it detracted from it. Apart from looks, the P15 is what I was hoping the P1 would be, but wasn't.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Just why ?.... talk about create a huge amount of interfaces...
Because you can if you want to? I was just saying that its not a difficult, overly expensive or particularly complex if you have a requirement to do so to safe guard the V expensive P1 battery in remote areas.
Whilst I don't have a P1 (mores the pity) I nearly fitted one as part of my new house build as we had been suffering annoying power outages a good few times a year. I had the overhead power lines moved & a new 30kw transformer fitted to the last pole in the field which seems to of done the trick, so for now its not required.
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