Discussion
It has a lithium ion battery, you are supposed to keep it conditioned. Would people moan if their Tesla didn't start because they didn't follow the instructions and charge it? The steering rack vlog is totally OTT. Never known anyone with that issue myself. Not saying in won't happen but if you buy a supercar, any supercar, without a warranty then please don't moan, you took a risk, you gambled and it didn't work.
For a 12C you pay £3,500 pa for a warranty and £1,500 for a service, that's it, £5k pa to drive a stunning feat of British engineering, the son of the F1, a car built and conceived by an F1 constructor all for £13.69p per day!
For a 12C you pay £3,500 pa for a warranty and £1,500 for a service, that's it, £5k pa to drive a stunning feat of British engineering, the son of the F1, a car built and conceived by an F1 constructor all for £13.69p per day!
- P182 MP4-12C owners handbook "WARNING: Leave a suitable lithium ion battery charger connected to the lithium ion battery and switched on when your vehicle is not in regular use"
That YouTube guy seems to be making an income out of 'drama' his other videos include "what's wrong with the 488" "when Lambos break" and "when Ferraris break".
There's a price to supercar ownership; running costs are one of them, a warranty is part of the running cost
Happy motoring everyone
There's a price to supercar ownership; running costs are one of them, a warranty is part of the running cost
Happy motoring everyone
In fact, the warranty issue has only just been extended --- so there may be some owners who don't have an extended warranty.
Don't believe that gearbox issues don't happen to anybody near you, it almost happened to me.
I bought a 2012 car with very low miles and FSH .. had it serviced but sold it just before it passed the three year stage.
The dealer who sold it with me had it serviced again by McLaren --- by then it had done 4000 miles ? --- and decided that because they are such reliable things he would offer his own warranty rather than buy a McLaren extended warranty extension.
Bad decision, -- a weeping gearbox seal turned into a new gearbox, and McLaren would not allow a race team who regularly strip these boxes to buy the parts to repair the gearbox (despite the low mileage and the full service history) -- preferring instead to ask for £18000 plus fitting of a new gearbox.
Is this really great after sales service ?
Or price fixing ??
Would I buy another ? A big fat NO.
Don't believe that gearbox issues don't happen to anybody near you, it almost happened to me.
I bought a 2012 car with very low miles and FSH .. had it serviced but sold it just before it passed the three year stage.
The dealer who sold it with me had it serviced again by McLaren --- by then it had done 4000 miles ? --- and decided that because they are such reliable things he would offer his own warranty rather than buy a McLaren extended warranty extension.
Bad decision, -- a weeping gearbox seal turned into a new gearbox, and McLaren would not allow a race team who regularly strip these boxes to buy the parts to repair the gearbox (despite the low mileage and the full service history) -- preferring instead to ask for £18000 plus fitting of a new gearbox.
Is this really great after sales service ?
Or price fixing ??
Would I buy another ? A big fat NO.
You forgot to add said dealer also decided not to honour his own warranty and royally shafted the next buyer. He made a call on reliability which didn't work out but still decided to pass on his costs to the buyer despite provision of his own so-called cast iron warranty.
At the end of the day, it was an out of warranty car that the non franchised dealer should have sorted out and was never going to get goodwill from Mclaren as an owner from new might have. Porsche didn't sort out IMS, RMS or any issues outside of warranty either for example.
Preventing Graziano supplying parts for repair is poor I grant you and it's a very very foolish short term measure by Mclaren imo.
At the end of the day, it was an out of warranty car that the non franchised dealer should have sorted out and was never going to get goodwill from Mclaren as an owner from new might have. Porsche didn't sort out IMS, RMS or any issues outside of warranty either for example.
Preventing Graziano supplying parts for repair is poor I grant you and it's a very very foolish short term measure by Mclaren imo.
isaldiri said:
You forgot to add said dealer also decided not to honour his own warranty and royally shafted the next buyer. He made a call on reliability which didn't work out but still decided to pass on his costs to the buyer despite provision of his own so-called cast iron warranty.
At the end of the day, it was an out of warranty car that the non franchised dealer should have sorted out and was never going to get goodwill from Mclaren as an owner from new might have. Porsche didn't sort out IMS, RMS or any issues outside of warranty either for example.
Preventing Graziano supplying parts for repair is poor I grant you and it's a very very foolish short term measure by Mclaren imo.
+ 1 Don't get me started on Porsches Choclate Orange engines At the end of the day, it was an out of warranty car that the non franchised dealer should have sorted out and was never going to get goodwill from Mclaren as an owner from new might have. Porsche didn't sort out IMS, RMS or any issues outside of warranty either for example.
Preventing Graziano supplying parts for repair is poor I grant you and it's a very very foolish short term measure by Mclaren imo.
isaldiri said:
You forgot to add said dealer also decided not to honour his own warranty and royally shafted the next buyer. He made a call on reliability which didn't work out but still decided to pass on his costs to the buyer despite provision of his own so-called cast iron warranty.
At the end of the day, it was an out of warranty car that the non franchised dealer should have sorted out and was never going to get goodwill from Mclaren as an owner from new might have. Porsche didn't sort out IMS, RMS or any issues outside of warranty either for example.
Preventing Graziano supplying parts for repair is poor I grant you and it's a very very foolish short term measure by Mclaren imo.
In fairness, I didn't forget to add. You chose to add -- the topic is 12C issues.At the end of the day, it was an out of warranty car that the non franchised dealer should have sorted out and was never going to get goodwill from Mclaren as an owner from new might have. Porsche didn't sort out IMS, RMS or any issues outside of warranty either for example.
Preventing Graziano supplying parts for repair is poor I grant you and it's a very very foolish short term measure by Mclaren imo.
I wasn't involved in the story at that stage -- and truthfully do not understand the suggested outcome ---
The fact still was that the car had had four McLaren services in around 4000 miles at that stage --- the same dealer had supplied the car from new --- so please don't try to find a cheap reason for the sad lack of McLaren support for both the dealer and the innocent owner.
A quality brand would look after the customer come what may ...
Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 30th January 20:53
Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 30th January 20:56
ChrisW. said:
In fairness, I didn't forget to add. You chose to add -- the topic is 12C issues.
I wasn't involved in the story at that stage -- and truthfully do not understand the suggested outcome ---
The fact still was that the car had had four McLaren services in around 4000 miles at that stage --- the same dealer had supplied the car from new --- so please don't try to find a cheap reason for the sad lack of McLaren support for both the dealer and the innocent owner.
A quality brand would look after the customer come what may ...
Chris, do you seriously expect Mclaren to fully fix an out of warranty car that is sold by a non franchised dealer? Please tell me which 'quality brand' would do that, especially 'come what may'. Porsche? i repeat, there have been IMS failures and all kinds of RMS issues, coolant hoses, early 996 premature ceramic rotor wear etc. Out of warranty, how often without a superb dealer relationship have any of them been covered by the manufacturer out of goodwill? I wasn't involved in the story at that stage -- and truthfully do not understand the suggested outcome ---
The fact still was that the car had had four McLaren services in around 4000 miles at that stage --- the same dealer had supplied the car from new --- so please don't try to find a cheap reason for the sad lack of McLaren support for both the dealer and the innocent owner.
A quality brand would look after the customer come what may ...
I have yet to hear of a car that is under warranty that has not been satisfactorily sorted as long as the related failure has not been user inflicted. As far as I am concerned, Mclaren have held up their end of the deal properly so far. It's up to the customer to renew the warranty if he sees fit. You are seemingly expecting Mclaren to go way above and beyond what anyone else in the industry is doing. I chose to add what I did because you equally chose not to address it. The primary fault in the case of dave sums unfortunate case imo lies clearly with the second hand dealer and not Mclaren.
They're an intriguing used prospect. I love the carbon tech but its a double edged sword having this level of tech and electronics. Watch the youtube vid. Yikes.
12 C looked so boring when it first came out but its shape has aged well compared to Mclarens new fussier design language. Off to the classifieds (with trepidation lol)
12 C looked so boring when it first came out but its shape has aged well compared to Mclarens new fussier design language. Off to the classifieds (with trepidation lol)
ChrisW. said:
A quality brand would look after the customer come what may ...
If you mean a quality brand would look after their customer come what may, then I would agree with you but once you step away from the McLaren dealer network and their warranty, you're on your own IMHO.I do still struggle to get my head around the problem of not being able to repair a bought-in gearbox without going through the factory for a full replacement. Bearings and seals should be easy to buy and can't be an exclusive McLaren part. Even getting a small batch of replacements made would be cheaper.
The Surveyor said:
If you mean a quality brand would look after their customer come what may, then I would agree with you but once you step away from the McLaren dealer network and their warranty, you're on your own IMHO.
I do still struggle to get my head around the problem of not being able to repair a bought-in gearbox without going through the factory for a full replacement. Bearings and seals should be easy to buy and can't be an exclusive McLaren part. Even getting a small batch of replacements made would be cheaper.
And this is my point. There is a huge difference between charging for the parts that will permit the gearbox to be repaired at sensible cost to all, and forcing the purchase of a new gearbox. I do still struggle to get my head around the problem of not being able to repair a bought-in gearbox without going through the factory for a full replacement. Bearings and seals should be easy to buy and can't be an exclusive McLaren part. Even getting a small batch of replacements made would be cheaper.
So are those who choose not to renew their warranty in effect, being held to ransom over this ?
As I said, I would have put the warranty on. The poor fool of a dealer trusted McLaren to be fair ...
May I also remind you that you were dangerously close to not having the option of a McLaren warranty on a car over five years old NOT bought from a McLaren dealer ..
isaldiri said:
Chris, do you seriously expect Mclaren to fully fix an out of warranty car that is sold by a non franchised dealer? Please tell me which 'quality brand' would do that, especially 'come what may'. Porsche? i repeat, there have been IMS failures and all kinds of RMS issues, coolant hoses, early 996 premature ceramic rotor wear etc. Out of warranty, how often without a superb dealer relationship have any of them been covered by the manufacturer out of goodwill?
I have yet to hear of a car that is under warranty that has not been satisfactorily sorted as long as the related failure has not been user inflicted. As far as I am concerned, Mclaren have held up their end of the deal properly so far. It's up to the customer to renew the warranty if he sees fit. You are seemingly expecting Mclaren to go way above and beyond what anyone else in the industry is doing. I chose to add what I did because you equally chose not to address it. The primary fault in the case of dave sums unfortunate case imo lies clearly with the second hand dealer and not Mclaren.
So please reply to the issue of parts only. How in the same breath can you compare this to Porsche issue where the parts were clearly available.I have yet to hear of a car that is under warranty that has not been satisfactorily sorted as long as the related failure has not been user inflicted. As far as I am concerned, Mclaren have held up their end of the deal properly so far. It's up to the customer to renew the warranty if he sees fit. You are seemingly expecting Mclaren to go way above and beyond what anyone else in the industry is doing. I chose to add what I did because you equally chose not to address it. The primary fault in the case of dave sums unfortunate case imo lies clearly with the second hand dealer and not Mclaren.
As for not mentioning the dealer, that was not the topic --- and how therefore can you possibly assert that I deliberately did not mention it.
Wash your mouth out with soap ... most of what you say is sensible.
Of the 21 x 12c's advertised for sale here, only two are with McLaren dealers.
Please feel free to correct this number if I have misidentified any sellers.
Most will be 2012.
So nearly all of them would have been at stage this year where there would have been no McLaren warranty at any price --- and still gearboxes cost £18000 to repair ...
What if you are only going to do 2000 miles in the year ?
How lucky do you feel ?
Please feel free to correct this number if I have misidentified any sellers.
Most will be 2012.
So nearly all of them would have been at stage this year where there would have been no McLaren warranty at any price --- and still gearboxes cost £18000 to repair ...
What if you are only going to do 2000 miles in the year ?
How lucky do you feel ?
ChrisW. said:
No. I expect them to supply parts to mitigate repair costs. Don't you ?
Or should a 4000 mile gearbox be a consumable ?
I thinks there's 2x separate yet intertwined issues here.Or should a 4000 mile gearbox be a consumable ?
The 1st is should McLaren (or any manufacturer) pay for an out of warranty car to be repaired carte blanche - No
The 2nd is should McLaren (or any manufacturer) withhold the parts required to allow a failed part to be repaired/replaced - No
It is the 2nd point that McLaren (IMO) are guilty of and the brand has suffered as a result, affecting residual values and putting some people off buying one.
The McLaren warranty cost is something that you need to factor into ownership, but it is pretty comprehensive compared to the Ferrari warranty which doesn't cover the major expenses like an F430 consuming its manifolds and trashing the engine....
ChrisW. said:
So please reply to the issue of parts only. How in the same breath can you compare this to Porsche issue where the parts were clearly available.
As for not mentioning the dealer, that was not the topic --- and how therefore can you possibly assert that I deliberately did not mention it.
Wash your mouth out with soap ... most of what you say is sensible.
Having spoken to you previously, I genuinely do not want to get personal in return to the above - at the end of the day, you believe Mclaren to be mainly at fault for the gearbox issue, I believe it's the 2nd hand dealer. The issue for me re Dave Sums gearbox problem is a failure of warranty which Mclaren are not guilty of. Perhaps let's leave it at that. As for not mentioning the dealer, that was not the topic --- and how therefore can you possibly assert that I deliberately did not mention it.
Wash your mouth out with soap ... most of what you say is sensible.
Regarding the supply of parts, I couldn't answer why Mclaren refuse to supply parts and prevented graziano from doing so. Personally I think it's a foolish move and very short sighted but again, it's their choice as their business decision and Mclaren are under no real obligation to support independents outside of the dealership network. For obvious reasons, they are keen to keep cars in service inside their network. That isn't, in my opinion, poor after sales service or not looking after customers. They still are taking care of customers - albeit within the dealership network. If one chooses to go outside the dealership network, you're accepting taking your chances.
If I were to be very generous and I'm not entirely sure I necessarily believe this either, to give Mclaren the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they don't want to supply parts that may or may not be installed correctly. It might therefore be possible without a major engine out inspection, it is not possible to see if the seals might have been changed and therefore on a standard inspection from a dealer, the car might well have a warranty put on again again without knowing the gearbox has been taken apart. For whatever reason if Mclaren (and indeed Porsche are not taking apart PDK boxes either AFAIK I might add) are unwilling to take the gearbox apart themselves, it seems not unreasonable they should not be expected to rewarranty a car that has been.
Also, it is perhaps worth mentioning that Graziano make quite a lot of gearboxes, quite a few of them dual clutches. I find it hard to believe the 12c gearbox is such a specific graziano one that only one OEM Mclaren seal would work and there are no other means to repair the car by trying to find another source of some kind of Graziano gearbox seal or indeed contacting Litchfield or some of the GT-R tuning specialists that have worked on dual clutch box upgrades. The cost of doing so might be higher than one might like or expect for a seal issue but if I had given my word on guaranteeing a car, assuming I wasn't prepared to fork out for the Mclaren gearbox I'd try my best to find another solution and the UK has enough motorsport industries and experience it seems very unlikely that no one anywhere is capable of providing a solution to a leaking dual clutch gearbox seal.
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