Will I lose my shirt on a 650?
Discussion
355spiderguy said:
With all of the other reasons why not to buy a McLaren 650, at what miles do they become taboo?
After 20,000 are they much harder to sell? Or if it has the all important Macwarranty does it not really matter?
When I was looking, they did seem very price sensitive, but that was likely because there were several with less than 10K miles (owners going for 720s?).After 20,000 are they much harder to sell? Or if it has the all important Macwarranty does it not really matter?
Makes for a great opportunity if its going to be a keeper.
The 650 spider that I am thinking about turns 4 years old in October; currently under the extended McLaren warranty and just had a strut replaced under the warranty.
Just of the phone to McLaren Glasgow to enquire about service and extending warranty in October; oil & filter change and inspection shall be £1310 and to extend the warranty a further £3980 on top of that, so a total of £5290 for service and warranty on its 4th birthday.
To extend the warranty on its 5th birthday its £4981 on top of the larger 5 year service next year.
To arrange inspection of a 650 spider before buying it would be £450.
Are these the figures that all the McLaren dealer are doing or has owners paid cheaper?
Just of the phone to McLaren Glasgow to enquire about service and extending warranty in October; oil & filter change and inspection shall be £1310 and to extend the warranty a further £3980 on top of that, so a total of £5290 for service and warranty on its 4th birthday.
To extend the warranty on its 5th birthday its £4981 on top of the larger 5 year service next year.
To arrange inspection of a 650 spider before buying it would be £450.
Are these the figures that all the McLaren dealer are doing or has owners paid cheaper?
355spiderguy said:
The 650 spider that I am thinking about turns 4 years old in October; currently under the extended McLaren warranty and just had a strut replaced under the warranty.
Just of the phone to McLaren Glasgow to enquire about service and extending warranty in October; oil & filter change and inspection shall be £1310 and to extend the warranty a further £3980 on top of that, so a total of £5290 for service and warranty on its 4th birthday.
To extend the warranty on its 5th birthday its £4981 on top of the larger 5 year service next year.
To arrange inspection of a 650 spider before buying it would be £450.
Are these the figures that all the McLaren dealer are doing or has owners paid cheaper?
Sounds about right, you may get the service a little cheaper if you shop around...Just of the phone to McLaren Glasgow to enquire about service and extending warranty in October; oil & filter change and inspection shall be £1310 and to extend the warranty a further £3980 on top of that, so a total of £5290 for service and warranty on its 4th birthday.
To extend the warranty on its 5th birthday its £4981 on top of the larger 5 year service next year.
To arrange inspection of a 650 spider before buying it would be £450.
Are these the figures that all the McLaren dealer are doing or has owners paid cheaper?
I really fancied jumping into a 650s but the yearly warranty cost put me off. They represent excellent value now a good car can be bought for £115k,
IMO the high yearly warranty cost and the rumours that they are very difficult to sell second hand are having a huge effect on values. Until this is rectified they will carrying on falling in price.
A £80k retail 12c must be trading around £65k already, so it looks like the 650s has quite a bit to fall. At this rate I can see a 12c bottoming out around £60k retail, surely it can’t go lower than that?
IMO the high yearly warranty cost and the rumours that they are very difficult to sell second hand are having a huge effect on values. Until this is rectified they will carrying on falling in price.
A £80k retail 12c must be trading around £65k already, so it looks like the 650s has quite a bit to fall. At this rate I can see a 12c bottoming out around £60k retail, surely it can’t go lower than that?
Suspect the lower they go, the further they have to fall... For example, if they drop to 60k it’s a choice of a 12C or an R8, 911, etc. if you’re car shopping.
With a budget at that level, can a buyer afford to maintain a 12C? One of the more mainstream Germans must feel like a safer bet. With a larger budget, buyers would be looking at different cars.
So, you’re left with those who are willing to take a chance - what would seem to be killing the second hand market is access to a good number of independents who can keep servicing and maintenance costs reasonable.
With a budget at that level, can a buyer afford to maintain a 12C? One of the more mainstream Germans must feel like a safer bet. With a larger budget, buyers would be looking at different cars.
So, you’re left with those who are willing to take a chance - what would seem to be killing the second hand market is access to a good number of independents who can keep servicing and maintenance costs reasonable.
Had a proper look around a 650s recently and have decided to jump in (just of note the volcano orange and volcano red cars at alistar bols have recently sold) so at 110-125k I think it is simply too much car to ignore! And they are selling at this level now, including someone on here has just bought a black one I was also interested in.
Think the plan will be to haggle hard and make sure the warranty is included which means buying from Mclaren direct or going in low at independants - what I am surprised at is the prices of some of the independants over Mclaren dealers.
I cant see them going much lower as peolple like me who are undecided are now jumping in at these prices.
My current 981 spyder will be listed on here for sale tonight.
The 650 also has a much better reputation on the reliability and build front also over the 12c.
Think the plan will be to haggle hard and make sure the warranty is included which means buying from Mclaren direct or going in low at independants - what I am surprised at is the prices of some of the independants over Mclaren dealers.
I cant see them going much lower as peolple like me who are undecided are now jumping in at these prices.
My current 981 spyder will be listed on here for sale tonight.
The 650 also has a much better reputation on the reliability and build front also over the 12c.
355spiderguy said:
Just of the phone to McLaren Glasgow to enquire about service and extending warranty in October; oil & filter change and inspection shall be £1310 and to extend the warranty a further £3980 on top of that, so a total of £5290 for service and warranty on its 4th birthday.
If the car is still under warranty, there is no need for the inspection charge any more, you can just renew the warranty. McLaren Glasgow should be aware of that.DanL said:
Suspect the lower they go, the further they have to fall... For example, if they drop to 60k it’s a choice of a 12C or an R8, 911, etc. if you’re car shopping.
With a budget at that level, can a buyer afford to maintain a 12C? One of the more mainstream Germans must feel like a safer bet. With a larger budget, buyers would be looking at different cars.
So, you’re left with those who are willing to take a chance - what would seem to be killing the second hand market is access to a good number of independents who can keep servicing and maintenance costs reasonable.
You’re absolutely right about the running costs at this price point but the 12C is so much rarer than the competition I think there’s enough demand for the relatively small supply to limit further depreciation. Financially, you’re worse off with the depreciation of a new E63 compared to the running costs of a non depreciating 12C. I think it can’t go much further.With a budget at that level, can a buyer afford to maintain a 12C? One of the more mainstream Germans must feel like a safer bet. With a larger budget, buyers would be looking at different cars.
So, you’re left with those who are willing to take a chance - what would seem to be killing the second hand market is access to a good number of independents who can keep servicing and maintenance costs reasonable.
I say this as an early owner of a 12C when they were launched and the reason I got out after a year.
When the car was launched by Ron Dennis he spoke of protecting residuals, offering customer service better than any other brand, all dealers carry enough stock of parts so that no car would be off the road for any longer than was necessary. Sadly Ron was engineered out of the company he created and the bean counters took over, customers are waiting an excessive amount of time for repairs due to lack of dealer workshop capacity and the availability of parts ( even cars that are in current production ), the bean counters laid out a business plan of new models and despite a changing world economy are sticking to it, dealers are discounting new cars due to over supply, that pushes the second hand market down which in turn puts new owners from taking the plunge,and the second hand buyer also when they see the first year depreciation, also not helped by the dealers lack of enthusiasm to buy in stock.
By now McLaren should have a fair idea of how much these older cars cost under warranty so they either have little faith in their own product or are simply profiteering on people’s lack of faith in these cars, either way they need to lower the cost or share the knowledge needed to fix and service these cars with independent garages.
The £150K+ sports car market is a crowded space in today’s market and people that can afford these new cars will not continually drop £50K in the first year, if McLaren are serious about growing a brand like Ferrari they need to manage the second hand market, look at Ferrari see what a 458 or 488 drop in the first year, how many independents out there?
There are many facets to the car game and clearly McLaren have mastered the making of great cars but have not mastered maintaining existing customers and supporting their brand.
Lotus comes to mind, a great car maker but has bumbled along throughout its life.
When the car was launched by Ron Dennis he spoke of protecting residuals, offering customer service better than any other brand, all dealers carry enough stock of parts so that no car would be off the road for any longer than was necessary. Sadly Ron was engineered out of the company he created and the bean counters took over, customers are waiting an excessive amount of time for repairs due to lack of dealer workshop capacity and the availability of parts ( even cars that are in current production ), the bean counters laid out a business plan of new models and despite a changing world economy are sticking to it, dealers are discounting new cars due to over supply, that pushes the second hand market down which in turn puts new owners from taking the plunge,and the second hand buyer also when they see the first year depreciation, also not helped by the dealers lack of enthusiasm to buy in stock.
By now McLaren should have a fair idea of how much these older cars cost under warranty so they either have little faith in their own product or are simply profiteering on people’s lack of faith in these cars, either way they need to lower the cost or share the knowledge needed to fix and service these cars with independent garages.
The £150K+ sports car market is a crowded space in today’s market and people that can afford these new cars will not continually drop £50K in the first year, if McLaren are serious about growing a brand like Ferrari they need to manage the second hand market, look at Ferrari see what a 458 or 488 drop in the first year, how many independents out there?
There are many facets to the car game and clearly McLaren have mastered the making of great cars but have not mastered maintaining existing customers and supporting their brand.
Lotus comes to mind, a great car maker but has bumbled along throughout its life.
Chrism355 said:
I say this as an early owner of a 12C when they were launched and the reason I got out after a year.
When the car was launched by Ron Dennis he spoke of protecting residuals, offering customer service better than any other brand, all dealers carry enough stock of parts so that no car would be off the road for any longer than was necessary. Sadly Ron was engineered out of the company he created and the bean counters took over, customers are waiting an excessive amount of time for repairs due to lack of dealer workshop capacity and the availability of parts ( even cars that are in current production ), the bean counters laid out a business plan of new models and despite a changing world economy are sticking to it, dealers are discounting new cars due to over supply, that pushes the second hand market down which in turn puts new owners from taking the plunge,and the second hand buyer also when they see the first year depreciation, also not helped by the dealers lack of enthusiasm to buy in stock.
By now McLaren should have a fair idea of how much these older cars cost under warranty so they either have little faith in their own product or are simply profiteering on people’s lack of faith in these cars, either way they need to lower the cost or share the knowledge needed to fix and service these cars with independent garages.
The £150K+ sports car market is a crowded space in today’s market and people that can afford these new cars will not continually drop £50K in the first year, if McLaren are serious about growing a brand like Ferrari they need to manage the second hand market, look at Ferrari see what a 458 or 488 drop in the first year, how many independents out there?
There are many facets to the car game and clearly McLaren have mastered the making of great cars but have not mastered maintaining existing customers and supporting their brand.
Lotus comes to mind, a great car maker but has bumbled along throughout its life.
Bean counters eroding yet another excellent brand.When the car was launched by Ron Dennis he spoke of protecting residuals, offering customer service better than any other brand, all dealers carry enough stock of parts so that no car would be off the road for any longer than was necessary. Sadly Ron was engineered out of the company he created and the bean counters took over, customers are waiting an excessive amount of time for repairs due to lack of dealer workshop capacity and the availability of parts ( even cars that are in current production ), the bean counters laid out a business plan of new models and despite a changing world economy are sticking to it, dealers are discounting new cars due to over supply, that pushes the second hand market down which in turn puts new owners from taking the plunge,and the second hand buyer also when they see the first year depreciation, also not helped by the dealers lack of enthusiasm to buy in stock.
By now McLaren should have a fair idea of how much these older cars cost under warranty so they either have little faith in their own product or are simply profiteering on people’s lack of faith in these cars, either way they need to lower the cost or share the knowledge needed to fix and service these cars with independent garages.
The £150K+ sports car market is a crowded space in today’s market and people that can afford these new cars will not continually drop £50K in the first year, if McLaren are serious about growing a brand like Ferrari they need to manage the second hand market, look at Ferrari see what a 458 or 488 drop in the first year, how many independents out there?
There are many facets to the car game and clearly McLaren have mastered the making of great cars but have not mastered maintaining existing customers and supporting their brand.
Lotus comes to mind, a great car maker but has bumbled along throughout its life.
lambo666 said:
Had a proper look around a 650s recently and have decided to jump in (just of note the volcano orange and volcano red cars at alistar bols have recently sold) so at 110-125k I think it is simply too much car to ignore! And they are selling at this level now, including someone on here has just bought a black one I was also interested in.
Think the plan will be to haggle hard and make sure the warranty is included which means buying from Mclaren direct or going in low at independants - what I am surprised at is the prices of some of the independants over Mclaren dealers.
I cant see them going much lower as peolple like me who are undecided are now jumping in at these prices.
My current 981 spyder will be listed on here for sale tonight.
The 650 also has a much better reputation on the reliability and build front also over the 12c.
Welcome to the club. Not been very long for me, but my 3 yr old spider has been fabulous so far in both the months I’ve had it so far Think the plan will be to haggle hard and make sure the warranty is included which means buying from Mclaren direct or going in low at independants - what I am surprised at is the prices of some of the independants over Mclaren dealers.
I cant see them going much lower as peolple like me who are undecided are now jumping in at these prices.
My current 981 spyder will be listed on here for sale tonight.
The 650 also has a much better reputation on the reliability and build front also over the 12c.
. Sure, values will fall further like for all such cars. But this is best performing, lightweight hard top spider you can buy with niggles sorted and I’ll have enjoyed mine longer than those who waited. I think the biggest problem with the depreciation is, it is going to chase away all current owners eventually. I've got a 540C now, not yet looking to change but will probably look elsewhere for my next move as I'm not sure I can afford/justify/want to take two big hits of depreciation.
A Lot of talk on the FB group that people are jumping out into other brands hoping their money is safer there. I'll probably hold onto mine for another year and look to change. I don't fancy the same again in two years tbh.
A Lot of talk on the FB group that people are jumping out into other brands hoping their money is safer there. I'll probably hold onto mine for another year and look to change. I don't fancy the same again in two years tbh.
I think if you're buying a 3-4 year old car now for £125k and are happy with £50k depreciation over the next 3 years and 30,000 miles I suppose not too bad for a supercar. At least buyers can go in eyes wide open at these levels and have a fair idea where the depreciation will be. Have to be honest I can see early 12c at sub £50k easily as the repair/running costs are so disproportionate to the value of the cars. I can't see the 650 do anything than follow suit medium term.
Well, I assume we all know these are not investments, right? I’ve always gone for a 3-year old low mileage car with the idea that I’ve got a 50% discount on what is almost new and contemporary with no expectation of getting much back, and enjoying it.
Or you could wait for 6 year old car are with a further 50% discount that is no longer contemporary.
So you could wait another 3 years and buy the 650s for 90k, but at that point I’d rather have a 720s spider at 130-150.
Or you could wait another 3 years and be dead.
Or you could wait for 6 year old car are with a further 50% discount that is no longer contemporary.
So you could wait another 3 years and buy the 650s for 90k, but at that point I’d rather have a 720s spider at 130-150.
Or you could wait another 3 years and be dead.
12pack said:
Well, I assume we all know these are not investments, right? I’ve always gone for a 3-year old low mileage car with the idea that I’ve got a 50% discount on what is almost new and contemporary with no expectation of getting much back, and enjoying it.
Or you could wait for 6 year old car are with a further 50% discount that is no longer contemporary.
So you could wait another 3 years and buy the 650s for 90k, but at that point I’d rather have a 720s spider at 130-150.
Or you could wait another 3 years and be dead.
AmenOr you could wait for 6 year old car are with a further 50% discount that is no longer contemporary.
So you could wait another 3 years and buy the 650s for 90k, but at that point I’d rather have a 720s spider at 130-150.
Or you could wait another 3 years and be dead.
12pack said:
Well, I assume we all know these are not investments, right? I’ve always gone for a 3-year old low mileage car with the idea that I’ve got a 50% discount on what is almost new and contemporary with no expectation of getting much back, and enjoying it.
Or you could wait for 6 year old car are with a further 50% discount that is no longer contemporary.
So you could wait another 3 years and buy the 650s for 90k, but at that point I’d rather have a 720s spider at 130-150.
Or you could wait another 3 years and be dead.
Love that comment, just having been out for drive in my 650 Spider, sun shining, roads dry, not too busy, that’s what it’s all aboutOr you could wait for 6 year old car are with a further 50% discount that is no longer contemporary.
So you could wait another 3 years and buy the 650s for 90k, but at that point I’d rather have a 720s spider at 130-150.
Or you could wait another 3 years and be dead.
Chrism355 said:
I say this as an early owner of a 12C when they were launched and the reason I got out after a year.
When the car was launched by Ron Dennis he spoke of protecting residuals, offering customer service better than any other brand, all dealers carry enough stock of parts so that no car would be off the road for any longer than was necessary. Sadly Ron was engineered out of the company he created and the bean counters took over, customers are waiting an excessive amount of time for repairs due to lack of dealer workshop capacity and the availability of parts ( even cars that are in current production ), the bean counters laid out a business plan of new models and despite a changing world economy are sticking to it, dealers are discounting new cars due to over supply, that pushes the second hand market down which in turn puts new owners from taking the plunge,and the second hand buyer also when they see the first year depreciation, also not helped by the dealers lack of enthusiasm to buy in stock..
All very good about 'bean counters' but there's a bit of a problem with your version of history. Ron Dennis only left Mclaren in 2016 and had presided over the early issues on the 12c caused by rushing out the car too early, the overproduction of the 12c subsequently and the 650 etc as well. He was every bit at fault with the bean counters for those issues you note above with Mclaren Automotive. And for all of RD's infamous OCD, you might have thought a bit more of that might have rubbed off his employees in making sure cars were properly sorted before being released....When the car was launched by Ron Dennis he spoke of protecting residuals, offering customer service better than any other brand, all dealers carry enough stock of parts so that no car would be off the road for any longer than was necessary. Sadly Ron was engineered out of the company he created and the bean counters took over, customers are waiting an excessive amount of time for repairs due to lack of dealer workshop capacity and the availability of parts ( even cars that are in current production ), the bean counters laid out a business plan of new models and despite a changing world economy are sticking to it, dealers are discounting new cars due to over supply, that pushes the second hand market down which in turn puts new owners from taking the plunge,and the second hand buyer also when they see the first year depreciation, also not helped by the dealers lack of enthusiasm to buy in stock..
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