720S Should I or shouldn't I?
Discussion
Bispal said:
Ferrari are similar, very difficult to get a 'special' car, you need to have been buying for years and be part of the family. A bit more understandable as everyone knows that is Ferrari s MO and accept it.
McLaren make their cars available to anyone, unlimited, faster and probably better cars than both of above and people moan that they depreciate. I am sure McLaren could limit numbers and be very picky with purchasers like Ferrari & Porsche but they are not. They must have made a decision to make these cars accessible to enthusiasts and anyone who wants one.
So either spend years and lots of money building a relationship with Ferrari or Porsche to then not drive your car as it will devalue; or go and buy a McLaren and enjoy it for what it was made for. You can't have your cake and eat it.
Not exactly true.McLaren make their cars available to anyone, unlimited, faster and probably better cars than both of above and people moan that they depreciate. I am sure McLaren could limit numbers and be very picky with purchasers like Ferrari & Porsche but they are not. They must have made a decision to make these cars accessible to enthusiasts and anyone who wants one.
So either spend years and lots of money building a relationship with Ferrari or Porsche to then not drive your car as it will devalue; or go and buy a McLaren and enjoy it for what it was made for. You can't have your cake and eat it.
You can get a 488 easily enough, a bit less easily than a 720 perhaps but easily enough. It's obviously very hard to get a true Ferrari special like the 458 Aperta or F12 TDF. However try and get a BP23 or P15 from Mclaren - you won't unless you are 'part of the family' either.
I don't disagree in general that one either gets easy availability or good residuals though. Ultimately though, imo Mclaren don't have the level of demand for their cars to easily support the level of production they want (or need) for the standard production cars and oversupply has been the constant problem for them since 2011 (excluding the P1 obviously) as they are locked into pretty high production plans/targets that they seemingly refuse to change no matter what the facts on the ground are.
isaldiri said:
You can get a 488 easily enough, a bit less easily than a 720 perhaps but easily enough. It's obviously very hard to get a true Ferrari special like the 458 Aperta or F12 TDF. However try and get a BP23 or P15 from Mclaren - you won't unless you are 'part of the family' either.
I think the game is changing slightly now though, the P1 was £850k and it's replacement will cost £2m and I doubt there's any potential for an appreciation in value afterwards. Frankly I am really suprised that all 106 orders are 'spoken for' and I'm quietly confident if you approached them with validated wealth, Mclaren would sort you out with one.WCZ said:
I'm quietly confident if you approached them with validated wealth, Mclaren would sort you out with one.
I should hope they wouldn't. Remember the outcry when they said 500 LTs where to be made then announced 500 more, in spider guide, would be produced. Several people on this very forum chucked their toys out of the pram. Never you mind said:
I should hope they wouldn't. Remember the outcry when they said 500 LTs where to be made then announced 500 more, in spider guide, would be produced. Several people on this very forum chucked their toys out of the pram.
yeah but this is a £2m modern mclaren in a volatile market by a brand that defied expectations with the LT actually losing valueWCZ said:
I think the game is changing slightly now though, the P1 was £850k and it's replacement will cost £2m and I doubt there's any potential for an appreciation in value afterwards. Frankly I am really suprised that all 106 orders are 'spoken for' and I'm quietly confident if you approached them with validated wealth, Mclaren would sort you out with one.
BP23 is not P1 replacement. Its a 3 seater GT car that will be very fast ina straight line but not a track warrior like the P1. Its not £2m either, its £2.5m plus MSO and despite many meetings, emails and being my lovable self no chance in getting one. 106 made and they could have filled that 2 or 3 times over. Basically your wrong.Mclarens reason for not buying back is they cant advertise the cars and the market is unknown as so soon. i don't think Toms car advertised at over 40k over is a great example. its now just over 20k over in its current spec. lets see how it does. Tom also may have sold for a small loss however he had to sell quick due to it being delayed and other stuff coming. again this does not set the market.
talking short term speculator values are boring anyway get out and drive and live with them!
talking short term speculator values are boring anyway get out and drive and live with them!
woppum said:
WCZ said:
I think the game is changing slightly now though, the P1 was £850k and it's replacement will cost £2m and I doubt there's any potential for an appreciation in value afterwards. Frankly I am really suprised that all 106 orders are 'spoken for' and I'm quietly confident if you approached them with validated wealth, Mclaren would sort you out with one.
BP23 is not P1 replacement. Its a 3 seater GT car that will be very fast ina straight line but not a track warrior like the P1. Its not £2m either, its £2.5m plus MSO and despite many meetings, emails and being my lovable self no chance in getting one. 106 made and they could have filled that 2 or 3 times over. Basically your wrong.I've always thought that PH is really about the latter.
woppum said:
BP23 is not P1 replacement. Its a 3 seater GT car that will be very fast ina straight line but not a track warrior like the P1. Its not £2m either, its £2.5m plus MSO and despite many meetings, emails and being my lovable self no chance in getting one. 106 made and they could have filled that 2 or 3 times over. Basically your wrong.
I absolutely stand corrected then!I'm guessing demand has been helped by people expecting it to be as good as the Mclaren F1 and appreciate nicely to £10m+ in a similar fashion
TP321 said:
...i told you there would be carnage........;)
You are an odd fellow. This seems to make you happy? Why? With Ferrari announcing 7% price increases, its IPO, youtubers ordering 5 new cars "on tick" in rapid succession (sorry TGE TV!) and the fact that what is without doubt a fantastic car in the 720s can't apparently hold its value would all indicate that the bell has been firmly rung and the wider market is about to take a decent move lower. So that completely unwarranted smugness that you wear with pride won't last long.
Edited by WDISMYL on Friday 6th October 09:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJYBy1GesDM
Can't get over how fast the 720s is!! Incredible acceleration against the Tesla Model S P100D which has pretty much destroyed all other supercars.
Hopefully he will be able to setup a race against a P1 soon.. would love to see that.
Can't get over how fast the 720s is!! Incredible acceleration against the Tesla Model S P100D which has pretty much destroyed all other supercars.
Hopefully he will be able to setup a race against a P1 soon.. would love to see that.
WDISMYL said:
With Ferrari announcing 7% price increases...
On the one hand we have Ferrari increasing its prices and on the other McLaren dealers not interested in buying in unwanted 720s...if the wider market is dropping, why is Ferrari increasing its prices?? Doesn't add up does it?Edited by WDISMYL on Friday 6th October 09:33
TP321 said:
WDISMYL said:
With Ferrari announcing 7% price increases...
On the one hand we have Ferrari increasing its prices and on the other McLaren dealers not interested in buying in unwanted 720s...if the wider market is dropping, why is Ferrari increasing its prices?? Doesn't add up does it?Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th October 09:33
TP321 said:
On the one hand we have Ferrari increasing its prices and on the other McLaren dealers not interested in buying in unwanted 720s...if the wider market is dropping, why is Ferrari increasing its prices?? Doesn't add up does it?
As I said Ferrari are truly ringing the bell with that increase - let's see how the market absorbs that, maybe they will start to see some nervous cancellations too?I just don't understand your infantile attitude towards Mclaren. You don't have to like their cars but you should be happy for the competition.
I don't think this is a McLaren specific issue. The market for new registrations is down dramatically in September. Debt and uncertainty is record high and the pound has taken a beating. It is only natural that the market for > 250k cars is taking a breather. It takes a while before these ramifications start effecting the top end of the market, but i think we are starting to see it now. Ferrari is on a different trajectory. Long waiting lists (the waiting list for the Superfast has been closed - and it is not a limited production car) and a very loyal customer base. I was at Maranello this summer having dinner with some from the management board and it is quite obvious they are restricting output pushing the brand even higher into the luxury space. Secondly, the UK market is important for Ferrari, but it is the US that is their most profitable market and that is going very well with the strong USD. McLaren is very dependent on a strong domestic market and are much more exposed to current economic wobbles as a result. Also, the UK market for > 250k cars is very small once the credit infused hype deflates.
WDISMYL said:
As I said Ferrari are truly ringing the bell with that increase - let's see how the market absorbs that, maybe they will start to see some nervous cancellations too?
I just don't understand your infantile attitude towards Mclaren. You don't have to like their cars but you should be happy for the competition.
Don't worry about Ferrari, i am sure they will be fine - 18 month wait on a 488 Spider and 3 year wait on a 812....If anyone is going to suffer cancellations it wont be them....;)I just don't understand your infantile attitude towards Mclaren. You don't have to like their cars but you should be happy for the competition.
The big question here is why if the 720s has a 12 month wait, dealers are not interested in buying back an unwanted car?? There will be some mega deals on this - i might be even tempted
TP321 said:
Don't worry about Ferrari, i am sure they will be fine - 18 month wait on a 488 Spider and 3 year wait on a 812....If anyone is going to suffer cancellations it wont be them....;)
The big question here is why if the 720s has a 12 month wait, dealers are not interested in buying back an unwanted car?? There will be some mega deals on this - i might be even tempted
Nothing lasts forever - you maybe are too young to remember what happened with the 458 until the market recovered?The big question here is why if the 720s has a 12 month wait, dealers are not interested in buying back an unwanted car?? There will be some mega deals on this - i might be even tempted
What supports the Ferrari price is confidence in the secondary market. And that is not an island whatever you may like to think.
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