720S Should I or shouldn't I?
Discussion
Streetrod said:
Using your logic then, the 68 488's currently cluttering up the classifieds should not exist, but strangely they do, most of which have been hanging around for months. So as per usual TP321 you are talking rubbish, at least you are consistent
to be fair the majority of them are asking for decent premium and the lower priced ones sell much quicker.it's just a question of patience really as you're looking at a long wait if you walk into a dealership and order one today.
RamboLambo said:
Not seeing huge premiums on 488 GTB's. The whole supercar market, in fact whole car market is significantly down. Brexit, rate rise and winter season are all having an effect and come spring we will see things rebound to a degree
Lets compare like with like..the 488GTB which has been out for well over a year now, is still trading at just below list. The 488 Spider is well above list and still has an 18 month wait, and lets not get started about the 812 ...3 year wait and a huge premium when one arrives on the market. Ferraris are great cars and blue chip investments. McLarens are great cars.
Case closed.
rs200evo said:
You mean like the huge premium the same Alastair Bols is selling the blue 488 for?
You seem to think that having to wait 18-36 months to order a 488 is in some way a good thing? I am one of the many who has also ordered a new 720s, and being able to actually order a car to spec and get it within six months, for a car that driven back to back is better in every way possible than a 488, is actually a huge positive!
Your narrow minded view of driving enjoyment (or forum posting, no idea if you actually drive) through the lens of second hand prices is beyond comprehension. There is no where I would put £250k of my hard earned cash right now into anything other than a 720S in return for driving pleasure. I voted with my wallet.
And don't preach about how I am going to lose money...
I used the same reasoning when I bought my 993 GT2 new, when Porsche were having trouble selling them...
I used the same reasoning when I bought my Diablo SV new when Lambo were struggling to sell them....
I used the same reason to buy a Cobra Lightweight when they were not shifting.....
I used the same reasoning to buy a 964 Turbo S flatnose when it was struggling to sell......
I used the same reasoning to buy a 430 Scuderia when the big discounts were being offered...
I could go on and on, but hey, if I had listened to your inane ramblings about basing buying decisions on second hand prices rather than driving experience, I'd have bought none of the above, not enjoyed every minute of driving, and not enjoyed the increase in value they have brought because they are revered drivers cars.
I think the forum you are looking for is moneysupermarket.com, this is a McLaren driving forum
If you can afford to lose money, then thats fine, but if McLaren wants to be here in the long term, they need to control demand and supply, so that residuals dont nosedive. Most of these cars are bought on finance, and its only a matter of time before the wider market realises that McLaren residuals are pretty poor, especially for the Super Series. You seem to think that having to wait 18-36 months to order a 488 is in some way a good thing? I am one of the many who has also ordered a new 720s, and being able to actually order a car to spec and get it within six months, for a car that driven back to back is better in every way possible than a 488, is actually a huge positive!
Your narrow minded view of driving enjoyment (or forum posting, no idea if you actually drive) through the lens of second hand prices is beyond comprehension. There is no where I would put £250k of my hard earned cash right now into anything other than a 720S in return for driving pleasure. I voted with my wallet.
And don't preach about how I am going to lose money...
I used the same reasoning when I bought my 993 GT2 new, when Porsche were having trouble selling them...
I used the same reasoning when I bought my Diablo SV new when Lambo were struggling to sell them....
I used the same reason to buy a Cobra Lightweight when they were not shifting.....
I used the same reasoning to buy a 964 Turbo S flatnose when it was struggling to sell......
I used the same reasoning to buy a 430 Scuderia when the big discounts were being offered...
I could go on and on, but hey, if I had listened to your inane ramblings about basing buying decisions on second hand prices rather than driving experience, I'd have bought none of the above, not enjoyed every minute of driving, and not enjoyed the increase in value they have brought because they are revered drivers cars.
I think the forum you are looking for is moneysupermarket.com, this is a McLaren driving forum
They never had a problem shifting the first years production of the 12C, the problems came later on, to the extent that cars had to be discounted by over £40k to shift them. Its early days yet - but watch this space...
TP321 said:
If you can afford to lose money, then thats fine, but if McLaren wants to be here in the long term, they need to control demand and supply, so that residuals dont nosedive. Most of these cars are bought on finance, and its only a matter of time before the wider market realises that McLaren residuals are pretty poor, especially for the Super Series.
They never had a problem shifting the first years production of the 12C, the problems came later on, to the extent that cars had to be discounted by over £40k to shift them. Its early days yet - but watch this space...
What do you drive? This past year you've posted obsessively about McLaren and specifically their residuals. This is all very odd and feels like you have some kind of agenda.They never had a problem shifting the first years production of the 12C, the problems came later on, to the extent that cars had to be discounted by over £40k to shift them. Its early days yet - but watch this space...
TP321 said:
RamboLambo said:
Not seeing huge premiums on 488 GTB's. The whole supercar market, in fact whole car market is significantly down. Brexit, rate rise and winter season are all having an effect and come spring we will see things rebound to a degree
Lets compare like with like..the 488GTB which has been out for well over a year now, is still trading at just below list. The 488 Spider is well above list and still has an 18 month wait, and lets not get started about the 812 ...3 year wait and a huge premium when one arrives on the market. Ferraris are great cars and blue chip investments. McLarens are great cars.
Case closed.
There are only a handful more UK slots for 488 spiders and the 812 is totally sold out. There are even customers who have paid 812 deposits who won't actually get one and then of course there's a reserve list for any cancellations (which won't happen because these cars will go to the former). The 'boggo' Portofino is now 2020 and unless you are a) The Pope b) Jesus or c) Chef Ramsey, you won't be getting a 488 "Speciale". Meanwhile, a good 458 Spider 3 years on is still 200k, a good F12 3 years on £240k !
TP321 said:
........
Ferraris are great cars and blue chip investments. McLarens are great cars.
......
I think the point is that if your main priority for car selection is based on it's investment value, then you're limiting your options based on rationality for an irrational purchase. Ferraris are great cars and blue chip investments. McLarens are great cars.
......
'Is a 720s a better car than a 458' is a completely different question than 'is a 720s a safer investment than a 458'. If you think shrouds have pockets buy the 458, if your shroud has a Hanns device, buy the 720.
TP321 said:
Lets compare like with like..the 488GTB which has been out for well over a year now, is still trading at just below list. The 488 Spider is well above list and still has an 18 month wait, and lets not get started about the 812 ...3 year wait and a huge premium when one arrives on the market.
Ferraris are great cars and blue chip investments. McLarens are BETTER cars.
Case closed.
Can't argue with that but if I want an investment I buy another house or another pension planFerraris are great cars and blue chip investments. McLarens are BETTER cars.
Case closed.
RamboLambo said:
TP321 said:
Lets compare like with like..the 488GTB which has been out for well over a year now, is still trading at just below list. The 488 Spider is well above list and still has an 18 month wait, and lets not get started about the 812 ...3 year wait and a huge premium when one arrives on the market.
Ferraris are great cars and blue chip investments. McLarens are BETTER cars.
Case closed.
Can't argue with that but if I want an investment I buy another house or another pension planFerraris are great cars and blue chip investments. McLarens are BETTER cars.
Case closed.
S1M VP said:
As for the cars not selling ...
I was told that the order book is full, however, there were delays in the earlier cars which pushed back delivery times. Quite a number of people who had ordered a car for July/June/August delivery got their delivery dates pushed back to December/January and have now said they don’t want to take delivery, as the car will sit in the garage over the winter, so have been pushed back to when it gets warmer.
This has created some gaps during this 2-3 month period where (lucky) people can get their orders in and their car built/delivered quite quickly. Mine was one of these orders and my car should come mid February.
This is the story I’ve been given and it does make some sense to me, as I’m guessing most would prefer their new supercar to be delivered in warmer months when they can use it.
I can confirm your thoughts on this S1M as this is exactly what I'm doing. Car will be ready in January but I'm not taking delivery until March.I was told that the order book is full, however, there were delays in the earlier cars which pushed back delivery times. Quite a number of people who had ordered a car for July/June/August delivery got their delivery dates pushed back to December/January and have now said they don’t want to take delivery, as the car will sit in the garage over the winter, so have been pushed back to when it gets warmer.
This has created some gaps during this 2-3 month period where (lucky) people can get their orders in and their car built/delivered quite quickly. Mine was one of these orders and my car should come mid February.
This is the story I’ve been given and it does make some sense to me, as I’m guessing most would prefer their new supercar to be delivered in warmer months when they can use it.
Isn't this entirely subjective? One car is better than another; depends what it is important.
From a looks perspective I think most of the Mclarens look odd (save for the P1 which I like) and dont even get me started on the interiors.
Whether one is marginally faster round a track or is Slightly better balanced is completely irrelevant to me. Im assuming from the general gist of this thread that the M is?!
There is no logic behind my love of Ferrari; there is just something magical about their cars; the looks, the heritage, the sound..
Im sure McLarens are great cars, they just dont have something special, but it is entirely subjective. Anyway it would be dull boring world if we all liked the same thing!
PS. I dont buy cars purely as investments but its always nice not to lose lots on them!
From a looks perspective I think most of the Mclarens look odd (save for the P1 which I like) and dont even get me started on the interiors.
Whether one is marginally faster round a track or is Slightly better balanced is completely irrelevant to me. Im assuming from the general gist of this thread that the M is?!
There is no logic behind my love of Ferrari; there is just something magical about their cars; the looks, the heritage, the sound..
Im sure McLarens are great cars, they just dont have something special, but it is entirely subjective. Anyway it would be dull boring world if we all liked the same thing!
PS. I dont buy cars purely as investments but its always nice not to lose lots on them!
You could argue everything is subjective but objectively the McLaren wins hands down.
Personally and as a Ferrari and McLaren owner I think that McLarens are the better engineered product but dont have the brand strength, heritage and pedigree YET of Ferrari for which you pay a hefty prancing horse premium.
You pays your money and take your choice.
I will stick with my F355 GTS manual as since selling the 430 Scuderia another Ferrari hasn't really floated my boat.
With everyone going turbo charged I've realised the future for me, wanting FUN more than anything else, is a normally aspirated car
Personally and as a Ferrari and McLaren owner I think that McLarens are the better engineered product but dont have the brand strength, heritage and pedigree YET of Ferrari for which you pay a hefty prancing horse premium.
You pays your money and take your choice.
I will stick with my F355 GTS manual as since selling the 430 Scuderia another Ferrari hasn't really floated my boat.
With everyone going turbo charged I've realised the future for me, wanting FUN more than anything else, is a normally aspirated car
TP321 said:
If you can afford to lose money, then thats fine, but if McLaren wants to be here in the long term, they need to control demand and supply, so that residuals dont nosedive. Most of these cars are bought on finance, and its only a matter of time before the wider market realises that McLaren residuals are pretty poor, especially for the Super Series.
They never had a problem shifting the first years production of the 12C, the problems came later on, to the extent that cars had to be discounted by over £40k to shift them. Its early days yet - but watch this space...
DId you even read the cars I listed (including Ferrari) that had been discounted by sizeable amounts to shift them? What's the problem if you can buy an awesome car with a discount, and history shows awesome cars do become coveted in the long run. You really don't understand the market, and how it got here. They never had a problem shifting the first years production of the 12C, the problems came later on, to the extent that cars had to be discounted by over £40k to shift them. Its early days yet - but watch this space...
Yipper said:
McLaren will have to address their tumbling second-hand prices, poor build quality, reliability issues and bad dealer network before it catches up with them.
Although -- to be fair -- Tesla, Range Rover and Maserati also have similar problems and they are chugging along just fine.
Agree they need to control used car prices by not over producing a great product but disagree about build quality and reliability which I have found to be top notch on both my 650S spider and 570S. Something I could not say about my Ferrari's.Although -- to be fair -- Tesla, Range Rover and Maserati also have similar problems and they are chugging along just fine.
Dealer network needs to be expanded to support aftersales but the investment required is huge and the return a long term plan which does not necessarily make it a great proposition without McLaren manufacturer support . Almost a chicken and egg situation as expansion requires funding and funds for investment comes from car sales
Was looking at some Ferrari's the other day, sales guy was saying a customer was looking at a 488 but went with a 720s after a 40k discount.
I guess one way to handle depreciation is to arrange it so the customer can sell it for 40k under list and still break even.
As others have said McLaren have a serious problem with depreciation, I would not like to own a base 570s or 720s when the newest LT's are announced.
However, at some point these cars are going to arrive at a 'too cheap to say no'.
I guess one way to handle depreciation is to arrange it so the customer can sell it for 40k under list and still break even.
As others have said McLaren have a serious problem with depreciation, I would not like to own a base 570s or 720s when the newest LT's are announced.
However, at some point these cars are going to arrive at a 'too cheap to say no'.
Gassing Station | McLaren | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff