Residuals, Man Maths and a 540C

[Penrhyn]

Blackr8

Well have a look at this new video from Harrys Garage testing the new Artura
https://youtu.be/uSagfE3x9ZY

[Gibbo205]

BlackR8 said:

This is what I can't quite understand. Every journalist review of the GT3 would make you think it would be the most amazing car you will ever drive. I have owned a 911 Turbo and a bog standard 911 Carrera and honestly found them pretty dull, but always wanted to tick that GT3 box based on the hype.
Only issue is that a decently spec'ed 991.2 GT3 on the used market is nearly twice the price of a McLaren 570S, is it twice the car? if I went just off journalist reviews then perhaps it is.

Having owned and recently sold a 991.1 GT3, it is a dull car at legal speeds and does not feel special. When your happy to break the speed limits, chase the redline it is a truly awesome car but it eggs you on and you end up driving like a hooligan because its a lot of fun, get caught though and well just get the lube out, its gonna hurt. Amazing on track! But keep things legal and they are simply not special!

My 458 is my most fun supercar at legal speeds, it is such an event but is actually fun to drive within the speed limit too, it was as capable on track as my GT3 pretty much, but I found in the GT3 I wanted to drive at 10/10 to get my kicks whereas in the 458 I am getting the same reward and fun driving as low as 5/10 its a car that delivers whether you rev it out to 9000rpm or only 6000rpm, but the 458 engine is a masterpiece the rev range is on it from 2000rpm all the way too 9000rpm, amazing car, last of a kind! Also the very short gearing in the 458 makes the entire rev range and use of several gears again within speed limits which helps and the gearbox is a joy to use (DCT).

I also love my 600 LT Spider, though it suffers from wanting to drive it way beyond speed limits because it is so fast a little like the GT3, but I find I am quite happy with just giving it a squeeze once or twice, whereas in the GT3 it was like I was taken over by a demon and the red mist dropped, just drove like a prat, the 600 LT also like the 458 feels a true event to drive, drop the roof, listen to the whip cracks from the exhaust and the positive attention it gets is like no other, beautiful car and in my view the best of the lot from Mclaren along with 675 LT.

[fridaypassion]

Me and Gibbo both have very good taste in cars. I had a 458 before the GT3 which possibly ruined any chance of me thinking the GT3 would be good. The McLarens blow them into the weeds completely.

The whole experience of the porsche for me was bizarre it's evangelised in the press and by owners it's almost like these people have never actually driven anything decent. Very odd. The GT4 is a much much better car I've been lucky enough to fluke an allocation for one so will be getting that next year. Will be great for those trips when the 600 is impractical for parking/bad weather etc. Really looking forward to that but I wouldn't subsequently get a gt3 again unless the OPC just wanted to do a deal to buy it straight back which they blatantly do a lot of the time.

[Streetbeat]

fridaypassion said:

unless the OPC just wanted to do a deal to buy it straight back which they blatantly do a lot of the time.

Or like my friend on his gt3 touring, sale or return and wanting 50% of the profit over list and people moan about greedy Mclaren dealers......

Edited by Streetbeat on Wednesday 30th November 12:07

[RSbandit]

Just have no desire to own a Porsche, the standard cars are too ubiquitous and not near special enough and then you consider the crazy games you have to play with OPC's to get the more 'desirable' stuff.

[fridaypassion]

Streetbeat said:

Or like my friend on his gt3 touring, sale or return and wanting 50% of the profit over list and people moan about greedy Mclaren dealers......

Edited by Streetbeat on Wednesday 30th November 12:07

Not a bad screw really if you don't want the car you would be looking at Porsche giving you around £50000. I would be totally ok with that.

[Streetbeat]

fridaypassion said:

Not a bad screw really if you don't want the car you would be looking at Porsche giving you around £50000. I would be totally ok with that.

Well, thats very easy to say on the face of it but when you probably spent the best part of a million plus with them to get to that point in the first place (decent build slot), im not so sure you would be quite so "casual" about a 50k return (they are not 100k over list anyway in reality), not to mention then being black listed for selling outside the network, personally i think its greedy and unethical.

There is far more than i would go into on here but when you see it first hand, frankly, if thats how they do business (and yes i appreciate they are in it to make money), i would never want to own a Porsche or be associated with the brand. I will stick with some paint issues and a dealer who has done everything they can to make the experience an awesome one imho.

I wonder what people would say about Mclaren if they played those games.

Edited by Streetbeat on Thursday 1st December 09:20

[fridaypassion]

I totally agree the whole Porsche GT thing is a total nonsense. They aren't even that good. People that are paying a quarter of a million quid on overs for a GT car to me need their heads looking at. It's just the Rolex of cars buying them to feel good about values and having something that they tell you is rare. They are pumping GT cars out like never before there are 100s on PH.

The Touring is another level of hype. Ooh Chris Harris has one blah blah just more hype and overpriced boring cars.

[RBT0]

Streetbeat said:

fridaypassion said:

Not a bad screw really if you don't want the car you would be looking at Porsche giving you around £50000. I would be totally ok with that.

Well, thats very easy to say on the face of it but when you probably spent the best part of a million plus with them to get to that point in the first place (decent build slot), im not so sure you would be quite so "casual" about a 50k return (they are not 100k over list anyway in reality), not to mention then being black listed for selling outside the network, personally i think its greedy and unethical.

There is far more than i would go into on here but when you see it first hand, frankly, if thats how they do business (and yes i appreciate they are in it to make money), i would never want to own a Porsche or be associated with the brand. I will stick with some paint issues and a dealer who has done everything they can to make the experience an awesome one imho.

I wonder what people would say about Mclaren if they played those games.

Edited by Streetbeat on Thursday 1st December 09:20

Well said. Not sure if some here want to be associated with arrogant Porsche dealers.

Nice comparison as well with Rolex done by others.

Let’s face it, unless you’re in a position you’re buying loads of standard Porsche anyway and then you get offered GT3s and get some money back and a relatively nice sportscar to drive around for “free”, there’re supercars out there way more special, worthy and performing than GT3s.

Nevertheless, the new GT3RS has some new tech that are game changer, but not sure worth the premium needed to pay to get one.

[RBT0]

Let me add on Porsche dealers.

Kept asking my “loyal” one (bought a 981 GTS shortly after launch from them) for a GT4 PDK or GT3 for couple of yrs, got close buying a preowned 991 GT3 clearly flipped by themselves with 600 miles on the clock (and scratches on door trim veneers that couldn’t be fixed unless changing the entire door trim panel - size of a door) but wasn’t ready to spend £150k on this such car…..for then being called and offered a slot for 982 GT4 PDK 6 months after I bought my 600LT in 2019.

When I replied telling them I moved to a 600LT and was open to consider GT3 RS or GT4 RS they didn’t even bother to reply. Lol. It hurts. That was priceless.

[ex-devonpaul]

Matty3 said:

Drove my friends GT3 around Angelsey, he drove my Exige - we were both agreed that the Exige was the superior car, but he said he would rather have the GT3 because of residuals. Rather bizarre. What the hell do you buy a track focussed car for?

He didn't buy it because he wanted a track car, he bought an investment he could take on the track.

There is a subtle difference, and to be fair him, I wonder how many GT3s actually get driven in anger?

[Streetbeat]

ex-devonpaul said:

Matty3 said:

Drove my friends GT3 around Angelsey, he drove my Exige - we were both agreed that the Exige was the superior car, but he said he would rather have the GT3 because of residuals. Rather bizarre. What the hell do you buy a track focussed car for?

He didn't buy it because he wanted a track car, he bought an investment he could take on the track.

There is a subtle difference, and to be fair him, I wonder how many GT3s actually get driven in anger?

On the money.......You cant criticise someone for not wanting to thow away their hard earned of course, but on the flip side, why buy a track focussed car to not want to take it on track and "use" it, seems an utter waste to me, a lot like the 675lt preciousness.

[Gibbo205]

ex-devonpaul said:

He didn't buy it because he wanted a track car, he bought an investment he could take on the track.

There is a subtle difference, and to be fair him, I wonder how many GT3s actually get driven in anger?

I drove my GT3 in anger (991.1) and it was a superb car, but as other have said here they are seriously over-hyped.

I will just say this I own an Exige 410, 458, 600 LT and a GT3. Which one did I sell? The GT3 !

The Exige is the better track car even though on bigger tracks it is slower, but it is just so much more engaging, which surely is the point of a track car, next step would be a Caterham but I like some basic creature comforts and safety on the road, which the Exige just about has. As others here are saying GT3's are like Rolex it is sheep following sheep, trying to keep up with the Jones, give me an Exige or Caterham anyday, everyday for track work fun. Now 20 years ago though a 991.1 did not exist but I'd have loved a GT3 which some ability as I did drive like a prat on the public road and never thought twice to doing insane speeds, so I do get it as there are still many people even this day and age who will do twice the speed limit down an NSL road and more, GT3 is epic fun then!

The 600 LT is the faster track car, but is admittedly more expensive to run on track, as a road car it is vastly superior to the GT3, better comfort, way way faster and far more an event, plus been a Spider it is two cars in one. MSO car too, very special, I love it, such an event!

The 458 is as quick on track when the tyres are equal but so few 458's are wearing cup 2 rubber so normally at a dis-advantage, but rubber equal it is about the same lap time as the GT3, much stronger in a straight line though, also bullit proof! But the 458's real party piece is just have much fun and how engaging it is on the road even at legal speeds, something the GT3 could not even come close to matching.

What I will coincide is the GT3 has the best sounding motor (inside the car) of them all, true motorsport noise. But on the road it never felt that special or an event to me, overly firm at low speeds and to enjoy it had to drive like a prat, but it did drive superbly well when pushing on just not ideal on public roads, hence it went as I prefer doing track days in my Exige and against a 458 or 600 LT the GT3 never had a chance as an eventful drive on the public road.

Edited by Gibbo205 on Friday 2nd December 11:51

[justin220]

Morning, been a while since I posted anything in here but not a huge amount to report as the 540C hasn't moved for about 8 weeks due to work and weather..

I've actually been driving around my wife's Cayenne mostly, and due to a temp sensor issue with it, it's been driving almost in limp mode.. so no acceleration at all. We've had about 2 weeks with jt like that until the sensor was avao. Must admit, Porsche are fantastic to deal with. They just seem to get customer service right. I was in for a full morning and had work to do, they even gave me my own little office to use my laptop in. Courtesy cars, coffees, check ups etc. Very impressed.

i took the 540C out this week and forgot just how quick it is, felt like a rocketship in comparison! It almost made me realise how much I still adore this car. Not everyone will agree with this but to me it is such an event to drive, at any speed. This week it's been used for office visits, playgroup drop offs and Aldi shopping runs (cost of living and all that!). Fantastic. Looking to get another Skye tripped booked.





As I'm sure a few of us do, I've spent far too much time on auto trader these last few months looking at anything and everything. From Clio RS 197s as a runaround, through RS4/RS6, Range Rover Sports and even a couple of 600LTs, which I did crunch some numbers on but not quite sure even I can make the man maths work.

I'm still procrastinating over tyre choice. Likely I'll go PS4S if I'd commit to keeping it, P Zeros otherwise.

When the Cayenne was in the dealer they had a huge amount of stock in, quite surprising over winter but maybe getting ready for a busy Spring. A lot of GT products, turbos etc.. must admit the Turbo is quite appealing.

[Streetbeat]

justin220 said:

i took the 540C out this week and forgot just how quick it is, felt like a rocketship in comparison! It almost made me realise how much I still adore this car. Not everyone will agree with this but to me it is such an event to drive, at any speed. This week it's been used for office visits, playgroup drop offs and Aldi shopping runs (cost of living and all that!). Fantastic. Looking to get another Skye tripped booked.

Good to see and hear, i am definitely with you on them being an event to drive at any speed, i think the people who say they arent its just a noise thing for them i.e they want to be doing 50mph and loads of noise, cant say that bothers me much.

[RBT0]

What do you think of all those GTs compared to your McLaren?

Porsches always felt a step below to me, visually. McLarens feel exotic, proper supercar. Not just because doors.

[justin220]

RBT0 said:

What do you think of all those GTs compared to your McLaren?

Porsches always felt a step below to me, visually. McLarens feel exotic, proper supercar. Not just because doors.

Interesting question. The newer models of GT3 has always interested me purely because its so highly regarded. They do have a certain something about them, interior quality and fit and finish look to be extremely high.

I think the new 911 (991 onwards) are fantastic looking, and I actually prefer them without all the wings etc. It would be a GT3 touring for me if I ever went down that route, and was able to actually buy one!

I've driven a 997 GT3 before on track, and wasn't particularly blown away. The engine is special but wasn't a patch on my Exige to drive.

None of them excite me like a McLaren though. I'd say I appreciate a nice 911 but absolutely love the Mac's.

[justin220]

Another update, and another big bill unfortunately!

First up it was the coolant.. I had left the car in my garage for a couple of weeks when away, and noticed a blue pool of fluid when I went to take it out. Coming from just in front of the passenger front wheel.. I was really hoping it wasn't the radiator. AA came out and confirmed it was a hose but they weren't willing to repair on the driveway so it was recovered to McGlasgow again.. The had noticed some pitting on the coolant pipework also, so decided to replace it rather than risk another leak.






When it was in I also asked Ricky to refresh the Aircon, and frustratingly the pipework burst when pressurising.. so that also needed replacing. and the front bonnet catch was not working right. It wasn't releasing the secondary catch.. so again, another addition to the bill!

Perhaps most frustratingly though, was that the two front springs were also noticed to be cracked. Similar to the rears last year which I replaced, but this time I decided not to replace the full damper unit. The damper itself was fine, just the spring cracked. McLaren don't currently supply these on their own (£1800 for the full damper unit per side) so I'd like to give a huge shout out and thanks to Thorney for supplying springs (£300 all in!). Saved me over £3k alone.

Total bill just over £3.5k

Tyres were also due to be replaced and opted for the Michelin PS4S. Early days with them yet I'm still scrubbing them in. That was £1100 fitted on the driveway.



On the plus side. The car is now pretty much like new. In the last year it's had five new panels, all new tyres, coolant and air con pipepwork replaced, new springs/dampers.. now just time to start using it again!

I promise I'll get out with it soon for some decent pics. I've just lent it to a colleague to drive round the lakes for his honeymoon, so at least it's getting some use...

[PinkHouse]

Even in the overcast weather the Red colour still pops and looks quite striking! It's a shame that all four corners of the suspension have failed in less than six years and that's even without even mentioning the well documented coolant and corrosion issues. Hopefully the new springs will be more robust and is it possible to get better quality hoses similar to how Thorney can upgrade the hose clamps?

[TBCTBC]

Thanks for the update.

Had the hose clips been replaced? Thorney mention the OEMs are pretty poor and offer a replacement service.