720s Below 200K Already

720s Below 200K Already

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Juno

Original Poster:

2,770 posts

186 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
I keep looking at the Macs and don’t profess to be rich! Each time I look with the thought of getting into one my research has said hold for a while unless you want to loose a packet!

In the main we all know owing a car has a cost but to many of the newer breed buying these cars nowadays I am sure they do NOT want to be doing their brains so to speak,IMO it is of relative importance as I am sure it is to others.

Seeing what looks like a great examplehttps://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/mclaren/720s/mclaren-720s-lux--superb-colour-andamp-low-miles--october/8953489#/home from a trusted seller says to me what chance is there of selling cars advertised at £220-250k. That means this car has taken a ridiculous hit for just nominal mileage!

Surely this can’t continue without seriously affecting the sale of new cars? I can even see this having an affect on other brands! Once a 720s that is nearly new starts hitting £175k to me it makes a 2012/2013 458 look bloody expensive, at this point I think used Maccas could start steeling buyers from other brands due to price points!

It’s kooking like a slippery slope but maybe Mclaren see the Eorld as their Oyster andarnt particuslly worries about a few UK customers getting burnt!

I think the once bitten scenario could well kick in here.

Anyway it’s looking like great news for lurkers like me who fancy a dable in the near future!

Edited by Juno on Monday 20th August 14:42


Edited by Juno on Monday 20th August 14:45

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

107 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
Some cars are priced to sell rather than sit unsold for years like those speculatively priced.
The cheapest has been the Tom Hartley car at £199k that sold IMMEDIATELY with several more buyers disappointed.

Anything will always sell at a price and there will always be the odd one off car that due to circumstances will be cheap. That in itself does not make it the norm. I know of a similar spec car that was bought for £225k by a mate of mine. He still saved circa £40k off list and was happy with the deal
An oddball launch 12 month old car with 5,000 miles could hit £175 k in the next 12 months possibly but there is still a lot of wishful thinking going on.

Its all relative and as you have rightly stated if these cars do come down they effect the whole supercar market equilibrium.

At £199k a 720S is a steal even if its not the most desirable spec but don't hold your breath for a nearly new delivery mileage car getting anywhere near £175k and £80k off list.

This cooling of the whole supercar market will recover and its only those that have to sell at a low point that will lose out. Others will just ride it out until prices recover so if you want to bag a bargain its all about timing and personally I think a bag full of swag in December 2018 will be a great time to deal.

cayman-black

7,466 posts

153 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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Did i not read on here of some £30-40k discounts from new?

MDL111

3,060 posts

114 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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RL I am curious why you think this "This cooling of the whole supercar market will recover..."

IMO the market has completely overheated and soon we will be back to normal depreciation on these types of cars, I don't see anything like a recovery on the horizon, just the opposite to be honest.

And I agree 720 at below 200k will be a great buy for somebody. Still too expensive for me, but at some point I will get one. Would love a black one with buckets, cage and harness bar (there is one for sale) as track day car. Will need to drop a little more though before I can afford one (and I then don't particularly care if it continues dropping in value post purchase)

DT398

1,496 posts

85 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
RamboLambo said:
Some cars are priced to sell rather than sit unsold for years like those speculatively priced.
The cheapest has been the Tom Hartley car at £199k that sold IMMEDIATELY with several more buyers disappointed.

Anything will always sell at a price and there will always be the odd one off car that due to circumstances will be cheap. That in itself does not make it the norm. I know of a similar spec car that was bought for £225k by a mate of mine. He still saved circa £40k off list and was happy with the deal
An oddball launch 12 month old car with 5,000 miles could hit £175 k in the next 12 months possibly but there is still a lot of wishful thinking going on.

Its all relative and as you have rightly stated if these cars do come down they effect the whole supercar market equilibrium.

At £199k a 720S is a steal even if its not the most desirable spec but don't hold your breath for a nearly new delivery mileage car getting anywhere near £175k and £80k off list.

This cooling of the whole supercar market will recover and its only those that have to sell at a low point that will lose out. Others will just ride it out until prices recover so if you want to bag a bargain its all about timing and personally I think a bag full of swag in December 2018 will be a great time to deal.
Laughable. A queue of disappointed buyers having missed out on a 720s at £199k. Yeah right. Plenty more available and lots unsold for a while. 650s still dropping and it will continue. Fantasy land to talk of a recovery in prices. Here comes the 600LT followed by a succession of faster shinier things as part of Macs track 25 endless model evolution. You went on a year ago about 650 prices going up and underpinned by the 12c that would never drop below a certain point etc etc. Look where those are now and it was the only logical outcome with anything where supply is not limited.

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Juno

Original Poster:

2,770 posts

186 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
Lots of good points and differing opinions but won’t this ultimately damage McLarens progress? Surely any good business needs an amount of repeat customers to stay with the brand to grow and prosper! You can’t keep hitting people for a 100k every two years and expect them to keep coming back for more!

Are the cars too expensive from the off?

Juno

Original Poster:

2,770 posts

186 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
Lots of good points and differing opinions but won’t this ultimately damage McLarens progress? Surely any good business needs an amount of repeat customers to stay with the brand to grow and prosper! You can’t keep hitting people for a 100k every two years and expect them to keep coming back for more!

Are the cars too expensive from the off?

Edited by Juno on Monday 20th August 16:03

MDL111

3,060 posts

114 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
Juno said:
Lots of good points and differing opinions but won’t this ultimately damage McLarens progress? Surely any good business needs an amount of repeat customers to stay with the brand to grow and prosper! You can’t keep hitting people for a 100k every two years and expect them to keep coming back for more!

Are the cars too expensive from the off?
seems to have always worked reasonably well for Ferrari 12 cylinder buyers, Porsche Turbo and GT2, Mercedes S63/65, BMW V12 7-series etc buyers etc though. Enough to support the number produced anyway.

The issue is nowadays I think there are just too many car being produced vs the number of buyers (new and used) who really want to own them even if they cost a ton of money. I believe a lot of these (let's call them new/recent) buyers will disappear again and then values across the board will plummet (as opposed to recover).

Juno

Original Poster:

2,770 posts

186 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
MDL111 said:
seems to have always worked reasonably well for Ferrari 12 cylinder buyers, Porsche Turbo and GT2, Mercedes S63/65, BMW V12 7-series etc buyers etc though. Enough to support the number produced anyway.

The issue is nowadays I think there are just too many car being produced vs the number of buyers (new and used) who really want to own them even if they cost a ton of money. I believe a lot of these (let's call them new/recent) buyers will disappear again and then values across the board will plummet (as opposed to recover).
Only last year I seriously thought about one of these https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... circa £165k-175k back then,surely they can’t go much lower, can they? You don’t appear to be marginally safe even if buying used? That would have been a £50k hit in 12 months and for a couple of thousand miles, that’s crazy!

Edited by Juno on Monday 20th August 16:16

Juno

Original Poster:

2,770 posts

186 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
At least there could be some good times ahead for buyers of these cars thumbup

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

107 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
Simple economics of supply and demand determine the market.

Whilst the McLaren brand is still rapidly growing they are still pushing out too many cars to preserve residuals.

Interest rate rises and Brexit have dampened the economy and many other markets not just cars.
Houses that were selling like hot cakes are not moving and coming down £100k in price in the last 12 months ( typical £1m house ).

As always the market over reacts and then over a period of time it recovers. Its cyclical and proven by history.

That said I would always want to be a LIMITED number car to reduce the exposure and increase the upside.

Just as a point of interest my 2015 8k miles 650S spider px'd against the 675LT spider sold within a week without even being advertised and for decent money so there is always a market out there for the best cars.
TBH given the price between it and the 720S at £199k I think I might have even bought the 720S. 3 year newer car with delivery mileage and not a lot of difference

Edited by RamboLambo on Monday 20th August 16:47


Edited by RamboLambo on Monday 20th August 17:21

Ferruccio

755 posts

56 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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RamboLambo said:
Simple economics of supply and demand determine the market.

/footnote]
Exactly.
And there is an endless supply of fabulous new cars.
But only a limited supply of potential purchasers for these cars and then the cars that they sell to buy them.

hunter 66

2,316 posts

157 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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At this price ( Friend just bought one for 205 ) a 720 is a way better car than anything else out there .

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

107 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
hunter 66 said:
At this price ( Friend just bought one for 205 ) a 720 is a way better car than anything else out there .
720S is better than most things out there, full stop. At these knock down prices its bordering on daylight robbery IMHO. McLaren need to sharpen up their act and dealer network to bolster the prices to what the actual cars rightly deserve

Bispal

418 posts

88 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
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A 2011 12C can be bought for £80k

A 2014 650s for £120k

I have often heard it said that cars half in value every 3 years from new. It can be seen from above that McLarens are better than this halving in value approx every 6 years as a 12C was £168k before discounts and a 650s £195k. The 12C has already borne this out and the 650s is headed to £100k in 2 years, if not before.

The 12C, 650s & 720s are all series production cars, not limited edition specials. Assuming McLaren continue with a new super series every 3-4 years (which they are) instead of 5-6 years like their competitors they will continue to depreciate in this way especially when combined with a lack of specialist after care and high warranty costs.

Following the above known facts expect a 720s to depreciate from £210k to £105k by 2023. If it follows the 12C and 720S then most depreciation will be the year following the arrival of its replacement, in fact with a list price very close to a 650s I would expect them to hold up to around a minimum of £170k until 2020 when a replacement will probably arrive. Therefore if you buy now at £200k you should get 2 years for £30k. The 2-3 years following will cost you more at a likely £60k fall.

Therefore the sweet spots of McLaren ownership, in terms of minimising losses are buying at 1yr old and selling at 3 years old. Or buying at 6 years old and keeping. Just my observations and having owned and sold one myself.

However for many people a McLaren is worth the money, I would definitely have another. Its a technical masterpiece, faster than almost anything else and the owners club is worth buying a McLaren for alone. Yes a series production McLaren will depreciate that's a fact, but do your research, minimise your losses and its worth every last penny!







RobDown

3,058 posts

65 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
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It’s never that simple Bispal

Running costs come into it

If on an £80k 12c I have to buy a £4K warranty (or take my chances). Then that is going to limit severely the number of would-be purchasers

What McLaren really need to do if they want to prop up residuals is support the development of a healthy Indy sector to loom after the lower value used cars at a more reasonable price.

Lee-0r5hq

18 posts

42 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
RobDown said:
It’s never that simple Bispal

Running costs come into it

If on an £80k 12c I have to buy a £4K warranty (or take my chances). Then that is going to limit severely the number of would-be purchasers

What McLaren really need to do if they want to prop up residuals is support the development of a healthy Indy sector to loom after the lower value used cars at a more reasonable price.
Its already happening, a couple of outfits already have full diagnostics now.

MDL111

3,060 posts

114 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
RobDown said:
It’s never that simple Bispal

Running costs come into it

If on an £80k 12c I have to buy a £4K warranty (or take my chances). Then that is going to limit severely the number of would-be purchasers

What McLaren really need to do if they want to prop up residuals is support the development of a healthy Indy sector to loom after the lower value used cars at a more reasonable price.
don't really get why the warranty cost is such an issue on Pistonheads - the warranty on a Ferrari of the same vintage will cost a similar amount per year (and many [possibly most] people would not want to run one of those without warranty either).

Jules360

1,864 posts

139 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
Bispal said:
A 2011 12C can be bought for £80k

A 2014 650s for £120k
Those prices are before any options. A specced 650S was in the region of 230-240k, so they have halved in 4 years.

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

107 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
Bispal said:
A 2011 12C can be bought for £80k

A 2014 650s for £120k

I have often heard it said that cars half in value every 3 years from new. It can be seen from above that McLarens are better than this halving in value approx every 6 years as a 12C was £168k before discounts and a 650s £195k. The 12C has already borne this out and the 650s is headed to £100k in 2 years, if not before.

The 12C, 650s & 720s are all series production cars, not limited edition specials. Assuming McLaren continue with a new super series every 3-4 years (which they are) instead of 5-6 years like their competitors they will continue to depreciate in this way especially when combined with a lack of specialist after care and high warranty costs.

Following the above known facts expect a 720s to depreciate from £210k to £105k by 2023. If it follows the 12C and 720S then most depreciation will be the year following the arrival of its replacement, in fact with a list price very close to a 650s I would expect them to hold up to around a minimum of £170k until 2020 when a replacement will probably arrive. Therefore if you buy now at £200k you should get 2 years for £30k. The 2-3 years following will cost you more at a likely £60k fall.

Therefore the sweet spots of McLaren ownership, in terms of minimising losses are buying at 1yr old and selling at 3 years old. Or buying at 6 years old and keeping. Just my observations and having owned and sold one myself.

However for many people a McLaren is worth the money, I would definitely have another. Its a technical masterpiece, faster than almost anything else and the owners club is worth buying a McLaren for alone. Yes a series production McLaren will depreciate that's a fact, but do your research, minimise your losses and its worth every last penny!
Interesting observation and can see the logic behind it. If you buy nearly new you are diluting the 1st owner/1st year huge depreciation hit.
I ran a 650S Spider for best part of 4 years at circa £20k per annum which for me was worth every penny and more.
If you want the latest and greatest and be the first in the queue you will pay a premium for that benefit so go in eyes open and don't moan about it

Yes I could of bought another Ferrari like everyone else and saved myself a few thousand pounds a year but why would I when I want the best car out there for the money I have budgeted to lose.
If you want an investment can I suggest you choose bricks and mortar and not a car.

LIMITED edition cars have got to be the best way to protect your investment IMHO