Fed up with the negativity

[RBT0]

dsl2 said:

Good stuff RTB0, if you like the way it looks & makes you feel just wait until you drive it.

I came out of total bore fest of a Porsche Boxster 981 GTS in to my Mclaren 570 Spider. The Porsche was so inert & dull I just didn't want to drive it, only clocking up 1700 miles in two years. It just did nothing for me other than being competent transport.

What a contrast the Mac is, always feels like an event to take it for a spin. I just can't stop driving it chalking up 2000 fun filled miles in a couple of months, just going out driving it for the hell of it.

I see you are fairly local, if you wanted to have a chat about anything Mac related ownership experience etc I'm near to Droitwich so feel free to drop me an email.

Thanks dsl2, in a way I feel the same as you felt, got a 981 CGTS, buckets PDK and sport chassis, till 2 years after bought from new it was an event every time I drove it, now really I feel bored and fair enough after almost 4 years I feel I should move on.
I was desperated for a 991.2 GT3 but didn't manage to get an allocation and now the more I think of it, considering asking price as well, I feel it wouldn't be as special as a 570S could be plus looking at many components shared with my current CGTS, is it really worth 150k+? Doors ( lol ), interiors, look almost identical to my current CGTS.

We'll see how it goes...no rush.

[acey81]

I was recently invited to attend a "prospective owners event" by McLaren. Drove a 720s, 675 LT and the 570. I've never owned a car, but I have friends who do. If you look at "TGE TV" and his comments, there are always two sides of the coin, and I think McLaren (and other companies) will assess how they deal with "influencers" going forward. The level of self-entitlement shown my "TGE TV" is beyond belief. If you think his problems with McLaren are about the product, you should think again. A person who attends a supercar rally in a Hyundai (money in the bank, paid trips to Paris Motorshow, none marked as paid endorsements on Youtube or any other channel, which is illegal) and claims the car is "mega" shouldn't be taken seriously. He would sell his own mother for views and AdSense revenue. Looking at the engagement across his channels they are low and decreasing, I guess people do get fed up eventually.

Back to the McLaren. I think if you look at what McLaren has done in the past 7 years or so it is simply remarkable. Sure there will be growing pains, but the team is small and approachable, all the way from the dealers up to executive-level of directors. Quite the opposite from some of the competing brands. Innovation is rapid and was a need to quickly reach a critical mass and become self-sustainable and avoid the risk of takeovers and things of that nature, which has meant a lot of new models and residuals are below the competition at the moment. I think the 720s is a formidable car, I would love to drive one with the newly announced track pack, and the 675 is bonkers.

I'm really looking forward to the hybrid era of cars. Because for me personally the engine is the biggest let down (coming from mainly Porsche NA GT products), and feels too "boosty" for my taste and requires some getting used to if you want to drive it fast. But I will definitely own a McLaren at some point in the future.

[TGETV]

acey81 said:

If you look at "TGE TV" and his comments, there are always two sides of the coin, and I think McLaren (and other companies) will assess how they deal with "influencers" going forward. The level of self-entitlement shown my "TGE TV" is beyond belief. If you think his problems with McLaren are about the product, you should think again. A person who attends a supercar rally in a Hyundai (money in the bank, paid trips to Paris Motorshow, none marked as paid endorsements on Youtube or any other channel, which is illegal) and claims the car is "mega" shouldn't be taken seriously.

I try to avoid this place but got sent your whining by someone having a chuckle at you.

I declare all paid partnerships on Instagram, (go check), and the paid videos from Paris will be labelled as such (out later and tomorrow). Cannonball wasn't paid. Just couldnt get any of my car/s to Ireland in time as was some last minute changes to my schedule, wanted to bring 911T - but Hyundai managed to get one pinged over to Dublin to fly out to after work last minute. Not criminally 'illegal' per se not to declare partnerships anyway, just potentially means you fall foul of the ASA if you don't declare. I urge you also at this point to drive an i30N. Cracking hot hatch. no, it's not a supercar but I certainly won't turn my nose up at it.

Self entitlement is interesting - genuine customer voicing honest experience I've had with my brand new £250k car. If anything I have more integrity being totally honest, unlike some in the Youtube fraternity that have hidden some SERIOUS issues with certain brands for fear of no more free cars or trips. Yes, even some that you all bash off over. Shock.

Please do raise any further issues with me in person if you ever bump into me. Cheers

[ralphrj]

acey81 said:

Innovation is rapid and was a need to quickly reach a critical mass and become self-sustainable and avoid the risk of takeovers and things of that nature

How are they self-sustainable? The only reason they haven't folded is that the Bahrainis were happy to keep pouring money in.

How have they avoided the risk of takeovers given that, by converting their debt to equity, the Bahrainis were able to seize control of the company?

[Beefmeister]

TGETV said:

I try to avoid this place but got sent your whining by someone having a chuckle at you.

I declare all paid partnerships on Instagram, (go check), and the paid videos from Paris will be labelled as such (out later and tomorrow). Cannonball wasn't paid. Just couldnt get any of my car/s to Ireland in time as was some last minute changes to my schedule, wanted to bring 911T - but Hyundai managed to get one pinged over to Dublin to fly out to after work last minute. Not criminally 'illegal' per se not to declare partnerships anyway, just potentially means you fall foul of the ASA if you don't declare. I urge you also at this point to drive an i30N. Cracking hot hatch. no, it's not a supercar but I certainly won't turn my nose up at it.

Self entitlement is interesting - genuine customer voicing honest experience I've had with my brand new £250k car. If anything I have more integrity being totally honest, unlike some in the Youtube fraternity that have hidden some SERIOUS issues with certain brands for fear of no more free cars or trips. Yes, even some that you all bash off over. Shock.

Please do raise any further issues with me in person if you ever bump into me. Cheers

Don't forget Johnwilliams77 - apparently he's more than happy to slag you off to your face. Can I watch if he does pls?

[br d]

Beefmeister said:

TGETV said:

I try to avoid this place but got sent your whining by someone having a chuckle at you.

I declare all paid partnerships on Instagram, (go check), and the paid videos from Paris will be labelled as such (out later and tomorrow). Cannonball wasn't paid. Just couldnt get any of my car/s to Ireland in time as was some last minute changes to my schedule, wanted to bring 911T - but Hyundai managed to get one pinged over to Dublin to fly out to after work last minute. Not criminally 'illegal' per se not to declare partnerships anyway, just potentially means you fall foul of the ASA if you don't declare. I urge you also at this point to drive an i30N. Cracking hot hatch. no, it's not a supercar but I certainly won't turn my nose up at it.

Self entitlement is interesting - genuine customer voicing honest experience I've had with my brand new £250k car. If anything I have more integrity being totally honest, unlike some in the Youtube fraternity that have hidden some SERIOUS issues with certain brands for fear of no more free cars or trips. Yes, even some that you all bash off over. Shock.

Please do raise any further issues with me in person if you ever bump into me. Cheers

Don't forget Johnwilliams77 - apparently he's more than happy to slag you off to your face. Can I watch if he does pls?

Good grief.

[Ferruccio]

ralphrj said:

acey81 said:

Innovation is rapid and was a need to quickly reach a critical mass and become self-sustainable and avoid the risk of takeovers and things of that nature

How are they self-sustainable? The only reason they haven't folded is that the Bahrainis were happy to keep pouring money in.

How have they avoided the risk of takeovers given that, by converting their debt to equity, the Bahrainis were able to seize control of the company?

Aaaaaaaargh, facts - run..........

[cayman-black]

Are TGE again. Gave a honesty opinion on a brand new 720S that no dealer wanted to buy back, remember it was the newest hottest Mclaren when he had it and folk on here are offened, come on...

[tyrrell]

Unfortunately not, it was a poor colour and luxury spec launch vehicle that no one in there right mind would have specked.

[mcl570]

tyrrell said:

Unfortunately not, it was a poor colour and luxury spec launch vehicle that no one in there right mind would have specked.

AMEN

[The Surveyor]

ralphrj said:

acey81 said:

Innovation is rapid and was a need to quickly reach a critical mass and become self-sustainable and avoid the risk of takeovers and things of that nature

How are they self-sustainable? The only reason they haven't folded is that the Bahrainis were happy to keep pouring money in.

How have they avoided the risk of takeovers given that, by converting their debt to equity, the Bahrainis were able to seize control of the company?

Exactly, they should have asked Elon Musk how to start and grow a profitable niche car business.

[The All Conquering Knowledge]

Youtubers are very fickle.

I have no beef with TGE and watch a fair bit of his stuff on the channel purely for comedy value and not for any factual insight into cars.

Anyone else watching his content must realise he isn't serious and its ALL about views and revenue. Yes he likes his cars, but what he likes even more is flipping them for a profit or very little cost and generating revenue from his content.

I guess he has had a good run with cars in the past in a buoyant market where his "influencer status" ( whatever that means ) has got him allocations and thought he could continue to do so with the McLaren 720S as well.

I've followed the McLaren brand with keen interest since 2011 and I think most people are probably aware by now that a brand new product with the McLaren brand is not free of a few minor niggles early production and its definitely not a money making scheme unless its a limited product like the 675LT
.
A combination of a poor spec launch vehicle and many early cars being immediately px'd for cars that owners could spec exactly to their requirements meant there was a glut of vehicles available used from launch and as such you were immediately staring at a substantial loss if you wanted to get out.

I assume this was a new and unwanted phenomenon for TGE and in a panic he thought he could get McLaren to take the vehicle back if he had enough "issues".
When this was not forthcoming I think the relationship with McLaren was soured and now his "influencer " status took on a new outlook. No longer a promoter he was very much a detractor

Interestingly he previously suggested he had loss several thousand pounds implying < £10k on the transaction but most recently that seems to have conveniently grown to epic proportions and become £30-£40k ??? I work hard for my money and I know the difference between £30 or £40k but maybe £10k is beer money for him

Did he play down the original loss not wishing to look like a chump or has he now inflated it to slag the McLaren brand off at every opportunity ?
Reckon the truth is somewhere in the middle as you are going to lose a minimum of £20k on that type of car as soon as you take delivery but TBH I think the bigger dent was probably to his ego

Bet he would of chopped your arm off for a 600LT though I somehow doubt McLaren would choose to sell him one.
If he is not careful he will burn all his bridges as I know he has also peed off Lamborghini

[RobDown]

The All Conquering Knowledge said:

Youtubers are very fickle.

I have no beef with TGE and watch a fair bit of his stuff on the channel purely for comedy value and not for any factual insight into cars.

Anyone else watching his content must realise he isn't serious and its ALL about views and revenue. Yes he likes his cars, but what he likes even more is flipping them for a profit or very little cost and generating revenue from his content.

I guess he has had a good run with cars in the past in a buoyant market where his "influencer status" ( whatever that means ) has got him allocations and thought he could continue to do so with the McLaren 720S as well.

I've followed the McLaren brand with keen interest since 2011 and I think most people are probably aware by now that a brand new product with the McLaren brand is not free of a few minor niggles early production and its definitely not a money making scheme unless its a limited product like the 675LT
.
A combination of a poor spec launch vehicle and many early cars being immediately px'd for cars that owners could spec exactly to their requirements meant there was a glut of vehicles available used from launch and as such you were immediately staring at a substantial loss if you wanted to get out.

I assume this was a new and unwanted phenomenon for TGE and in a panic he thought he could get McLaren to take the vehicle back if he had enough "issues".
When this was not forthcoming I think the relationship with McLaren was soured and now his "influencer " status took on a new outlook. No longer a promoter he was very much a detractor

Interestingly he previously suggested he had loss several thousand pounds implying < £10k on the transaction but most recently that seems to have conveniently grown to epic proportions and become £30-£40k ??? I work hard for my money and I know the difference between £30 or £40k but maybe £10k is beer money for him

Did he play down the original loss not wishing to look like a chump or has he now inflated it to slag the McLaren brand off at every opportunity ?
Reckon the truth is somewhere in the middle as you are going to lose a minimum of £20k on that type of car as soon as you take delivery but TBH I think the bigger dent was probably to his ego

Bet he would of chopped your arm off for a 600LT though I somehow doubt McLaren would choose to sell him one.
If he is not careful he will burn all his bridges as I know he has also peed off Lamborghini

You need to stop taking yourself so seriously and get out more matey

[Larry5.2]

Anyone wondering who RamboLambo has morphed into...?

[acey81]

ralphrj said:

How are they self-sustainable? The only reason they haven't folded is that the Bahrainis were happy to keep pouring money in.

How have they avoided the risk of takeovers given that, by converting their debt to equity, the Bahrainis were able to seize control of the company?

I think you have to look at McLaren Automotive and the group as a whole (and the whole Ron Dennis saga). McLaren Automotive are profitable, and revenues are roughly doubling every two years or so. Getting to a critical volume of over 4000 cars/year was very important, hence a lot of new models. I guess people would have liked for them to keep the 12C for 7 years or whatever the industry standard lifespan is? There is a cap of 7000 cars/year or something in that region that can be produced at the MTC, which will be a lot of fewer cars than Ferrari. Automotive is subsidizing the F1 team at the moment, and that is where the Bahrainis are pouring in their money.

The biggest challenge for McLaren will be the expansion of the dealer networks after sales services. Regarding Youtubers and other things, I think they have realized that the easiest way to sell a McLaren is by getting people to drive the cars, and hence a strategy of getting more people to drive them and engaging "brand ambassadors".

I think that McLaren are in a good place, and if people stop buying them as investments and actually drive them I'm sure they will feel a lot better.

[Jules360]

Larry5.2 said:

Anyone wondering who RamboLambo has morphed into...?

Jeez... I suspect you are right. And it's been so nice on here the past few weeks.

[anonymous-user]

Jules360 said:

Larry5.2 said:

Anyone wondering who RamboLambo has morphed into...?

Jeez... I suspect you are right. And it's been so nice on here the past few weeks.

The use of “would of” instead of “would have” gives the game away. Still, it’s easy to identify and ignore now

[ralphrj]

acey81 said:

I think you have to look at McLaren Automotive and the group as a whole (and the whole Ron Dennis saga). McLaren Automotive are profitable, and revenues are roughly doubling every two years or so.

From the audited financial statements of McLaren Automotive Limited:

Profit & Loss Account	2017 £000s	2016 £000s
Turnover	526,916	527,340
Gross Profit	88,945	131,469
Operating Profit/(Loss)	(33,152)	7,689
(Loss)/Profit before tax	(42,953)	3,471
(Loss)/Profit after tax	(42,563)	4,930

acey81 said:

Automotive is subsidizing the F1 team at the moment, and that is where the Bahrainis are pouring in their money.

I very much doubt that.

[Targarama]

ralphrj said:

acey81 said:

I think you have to look at McLaren Automotive and the group as a whole (and the whole Ron Dennis saga). McLaren Automotive are profitable, and revenues are roughly doubling every two years or so.

From the audited financial statements of McLaren Automotive Limited:

Profit & Loss Account	2017 £000s	2016 £000s
Turnover	526,916	527,340
Gross Profit	88,945	131,469
Operating Profit/(Loss)	(33,152)	7,689
(Loss)/Profit before tax	(42,953)	3,471
(Loss)/Profit after tax	(42,563)	4,930

acey81 said:

Automotive is subsidizing the F1 team at the moment, and that is where the Bahrainis are pouring in their money.

I very much doubt that.

I don't know the underlying costs turning that profit into a loss, maybe a strategic decision to write something off or invest in something? But a base profit of £88 Million. They make around 3,500 cars a year. This equates to £25k profit per car. Maybe not quite in Ferrari territory yet, but that seems OK to me for such a young car manufacturer.

Maybe they need to sell more fridge magnets and models like a certain Italian car company. Or how about giving them a bit of time, its still early days. I and many others are very very happy with them. Nobody with half a brain buys a McLaren expecting no depreciation (most people with the money to buy one have more than half a brain).

[TGETV]

The All Conquering Knowledge said:

Youtubers are very fickle.

I have no beef with TGE and watch a fair bit of his stuff on the channel purely for comedy value and not for any factual insight into cars.

Anyone else watching his content must realise he isn't serious and its ALL about views and revenue. Yes he likes his cars, but what he likes even more is flipping them for a profit or very little cost and generating revenue from his content.

I guess he has had a good run with cars in the past in a buoyant market where his "influencer status" ( whatever that means ) has got him allocations and thought he could continue to do so with the McLaren 720S as well.

I've followed the McLaren brand with keen interest since 2011 and I think most people are probably aware by now that a brand new product with the McLaren brand is not free of a few minor niggles early production and its definitely not a money making scheme unless its a limited product like the 675LT
.
A combination of a poor spec launch vehicle and many early cars being immediately px'd for cars that owners could spec exactly to their requirements meant there was a glut of vehicles available used from launch and as such you were immediately staring at a substantial loss if you wanted to get out.

I assume this was a new and unwanted phenomenon for TGE and in a panic he thought he could get McLaren to take the vehicle back if he had enough "issues".
When this was not forthcoming I think the relationship with McLaren was soured and now his "influencer " status took on a new outlook. No longer a promoter he was very much a detractor

Interestingly he previously suggested he had loss several thousand pounds implying < £10k on the transaction but most recently that seems to have conveniently grown to epic proportions and become £30-£40k ??? I work hard for my money and I know the difference between £30 or £40k but maybe £10k is beer money for him

Did he play down the original loss not wishing to look like a chump or has he now inflated it to slag the McLaren brand off at every opportunity ?
Reckon the truth is somewhere in the middle as you are going to lose a minimum of £20k on that type of car as soon as you take delivery but TBH I think the bigger dent was probably to his ego

Bet he would of chopped your arm off for a 600LT though I somehow doubt McLaren would choose to sell him one.
If he is not careful he will burn all his bridges as I know he has also peed off Lamborghini

Hi Rambo,

Poor English aside, some clarifications for you:

- I only lost £5k on the 720s. My point was made to those asking why I sold it, was that it would now be £50-60k if I had kept. And that sale was a total fluke via Facebook. Dealers didn't want it. And it had constant issues.
- I haven't "peed off Lamborghini". SVJ will be my 5th Lambo order and get on well with my dealer, Edinburgh (great bunch). Never do any press or influencer stuff with Lambo anyway. There is no HQ relationship.
- I could stroll in and order a 600LT, so could my mum, or my mates dog. They will churn as many as they can. You have been sucked in, bless you.

Cheers