Discussion
Is it possible to get in and out without much financial cost? Yes - some people did do that on both the 12c and 650 when their values flatlined for a while. However can you be so certain that you can move the car on in time before a next downstep?
Without wanting to sound like an idiot, I think if you're not prepared to risk a reasonable amount of depreciation and costs, just don't buy a Mclaren. They start life as £150+k cars with £150+k car running costs and you simply cannot expect them to have £80-10k car ie Porsche type running costs just because that's what they are worth now. You are already getting a car at a big discount and expecting running costs to be at the same discount is slightly bizarre imo.
Think of the worst case scenario, add another 50% on top and if you live with that, then buy the car and drive it without worry and if you come out ahead you'll feel great rather than constantly agonising about values over the ownership period.
Without wanting to sound like an idiot, I think if you're not prepared to risk a reasonable amount of depreciation and costs, just don't buy a Mclaren. They start life as £150+k cars with £150+k car running costs and you simply cannot expect them to have £80-10k car ie Porsche type running costs just because that's what they are worth now. You are already getting a car at a big discount and expecting running costs to be at the same discount is slightly bizarre imo.
Think of the worst case scenario, add another 50% on top and if you live with that, then buy the car and drive it without worry and if you come out ahead you'll feel great rather than constantly agonising about values over the ownership period.
foxsasha said:
10k drop in asking price is one thing, adding the SOR charge or dealer margin adds to that cost considerably.
If you buy at the bottom end of the market then id budget 15k drop in value inc sales fees based on SOR, 5k warranty and basic service plus another 5k for insurance and consumables.
right so a 15k drop would be manageable (i.e. depreciation + sor/dealer). Basic service is fine. Insurance ok. Consumables - brake pads fine, tires ok (assuming I go through a set of each worst case... again these are things I'll go through on any other car and yes on a Mclaren more expensve but the difference isn't night and day, nor do I mind spending more on something that's simply more special). It's Mostly the warranty really I've not accounted for. And the likelihood of values tumbling if a new car comes out.If you buy at the bottom end of the market then id budget 15k drop in value inc sales fees based on SOR, 5k warranty and basic service plus another 5k for insurance and consumables.
isaldiri said:
Is it possible to get in and out without much financial cost? Yes - some people did do that on both the 12c and 650 when their values flatlined for a while. However can you be so certain that you can move the car on in time before a next downstep?
Without wanting to sound like an idiot, I think if you're not prepared to risk a reasonable amount of depreciation and costs, just don't buy a Mclaren. They start life as £150+k cars with £150+k car running costs and you simply cannot expect them to have £80-10k car ie Porsche type running costs just because that's what they are worth now. You are already getting a car at a big discount and expecting running costs to be at the same discount is slightly bizarre imo.
Think of the worst case scenario, add another 50% on top and if you live with that, then buy the car and drive it without worry and if you come out ahead you'll feel great rather than constantly agonising about values over the ownership period.
I think you've misread me a bit - I'm not expecting the running costs to be the same and actually i'm ok with the running costs as have said previously as I've spoken to dealers on the cost of consumables and servicing and am quite comfortable with those things - they arent all that terrible, and that sort of daily cost is something I can live with. It's all down to now really the cost of warranty and if that's really needed? and the likely depreciation curve - on a bottom end car, and the real dealer margin that is charged. Without wanting to sound like an idiot, I think if you're not prepared to risk a reasonable amount of depreciation and costs, just don't buy a Mclaren. They start life as £150+k cars with £150+k car running costs and you simply cannot expect them to have £80-10k car ie Porsche type running costs just because that's what they are worth now. You are already getting a car at a big discount and expecting running costs to be at the same discount is slightly bizarre imo.
Think of the worst case scenario, add another 50% on top and if you live with that, then buy the car and drive it without worry and if you come out ahead you'll feel great rather than constantly agonising about values over the ownership period.
When I come to sell the car, I will have some selling time and not be in a major rush, especially if going towards winter. TVR will of course give me quite a bit of notice as to when my car will be ready, and also, have said they don't mind if I go backwards in the queue, so I can get extra selling time if needed. Also one of the dealers I have spoken to has said they would offer a discount on their usual rates on SOR (not a mclaren dealer admittedly). I guess that's not too unusual - and of course it makes sense for them to make sure they get the car back to sell again, but maybe will save me a few quid on the resale when not using main dealers.
akadk said:
I managed to run a warrantied 12C for 4 months / 4k miles for nothing last year.
Bought and sold privately
No issues except 1 flat tyre, and that included 10 laps around the ‘ring.
Bailed just before McWarranty expired.
was the warranty that expensive, or needed? Bought and sold privately
No issues except 1 flat tyre, and that included 10 laps around the ‘ring.
Bailed just before McWarranty expired.
Edited by RiknRoll on Sunday 17th February 03:10
RiknRoll said:
………..
Do I want the TVR more than the mclaren? probably not... I want both. I just can't have both! And I don't want to pull out of my TVR build slot, nor will I. If it weren't for the TVR coming actually, realistically I would wait a little bit longer before then buying a 570s as a long-termer rather than now, for a short-term stop-gap.
I know you say it's a stop-gap, but what's the alternative?Do I want the TVR more than the mclaren? probably not... I want both. I just can't have both! And I don't want to pull out of my TVR build slot, nor will I. If it weren't for the TVR coming actually, realistically I would wait a little bit longer before then buying a 570s as a long-termer rather than now, for a short-term stop-gap.
Have you something to drive at the moment, or are you looking at a 570s in comparison to others? Is the 570s the safest place to put £100k - £120k compared to other fast fun cars...probably not. Is the 570s an absolute hoot … absolutely.
A GT Porsche would be a safer buy, but if you are a V8 TVR person they may not suit. The new Aston Martin Vantage is closer in concept to the Griffith, and looking at how they are dropping in price they will be in budget in a few months, as are the top-spec V8 Jaguar F Types. Or you are looking at older Ferrari or Lamborghini which may have a flatter depreciation curve but come with a bigger maintenance risk, or alternatively you leave your money in the bank but where's the fun in that?
I'm a huge TVR fan, owned Chimaera, Griffith, 3000m, and Tuscan Convertible (9 years, best car I've ever had until the 570s...) and whilst I really hope Les Edger brings the TVR name back, I really wouldn't be relying on that happening in the next couple of years to determine what I drive now. Also, judging on past TVRs, I wouldn't be relying on the new car holding it's value any better than the Tuscan or Sagaris did when new.
If you want a 570s, buy one as they really are fabulous.
The Surveyor said:
I know you say it's a stop-gap, but what's the alternative?
Have you something to drive at the moment, or are you looking at a 570s in comparison to others? Is the 570s the safest place to put £100k - £120k compared to other fast fun cars...probably not. Is the 570s an absolute hoot … absolutely.
A GT Porsche would be a safer buy, but if you are a V8 TVR person they may not suit. The new Aston Martin Vantage is closer in concept to the Griffith, and looking at how they are dropping in price they will be in budget in a few months, as are the top-spec V8 Jaguar F Types. Or you are looking at older Ferrari or Lamborghini which may have a flatter depreciation curve but come with a bigger maintenance risk, or alternatively you leave your money in the bank but where's the fun in that?
I'm a huge TVR fan, owned Chimaera, Griffith, 3000m, and Tuscan Convertible (9 years, best car I've ever had until the 570s...) and whilst I really hope Les Edger brings the TVR name back, I really wouldn't be relying on that happening in the next couple of years to determine what I drive now. Also, judging on past TVRs, I wouldn't be relying on the new car holding it's value any better than the Tuscan or Sagaris did when new.
If you want a 570s, buy one as they really are fabulous.
So the full story - I have a 2008 Cayman S that has had it's time. I've owned it for 8 years, cherished it, and done everything I could possibly have done with it - its in great condition, but It's been overdue for a change for a long time. The way I see it, with my list of "wanted" cars ever growing, I have a unique opportunity to experience something else for 2 summers on the lovely mountain roads near me until the TVR arrives and ruins their serenity! (I live largely in central Europe, not too far from the alps, I just still buy and use UK cars and still go back all the time). Have you something to drive at the moment, or are you looking at a 570s in comparison to others? Is the 570s the safest place to put £100k - £120k compared to other fast fun cars...probably not. Is the 570s an absolute hoot … absolutely.
A GT Porsche would be a safer buy, but if you are a V8 TVR person they may not suit. The new Aston Martin Vantage is closer in concept to the Griffith, and looking at how they are dropping in price they will be in budget in a few months, as are the top-spec V8 Jaguar F Types. Or you are looking at older Ferrari or Lamborghini which may have a flatter depreciation curve but come with a bigger maintenance risk, or alternatively you leave your money in the bank but where's the fun in that?
I'm a huge TVR fan, owned Chimaera, Griffith, 3000m, and Tuscan Convertible (9 years, best car I've ever had until the 570s...) and whilst I really hope Les Edger brings the TVR name back, I really wouldn't be relying on that happening in the next couple of years to determine what I drive now. Also, judging on past TVRs, I wouldn't be relying on the new car holding it's value any better than the Tuscan or Sagaris did when new.
If you want a 570s, buy one as they really are fabulous.
Of course there's always alternative options.... and I look at each option totally differently, and the list largely comes down to the cars I've at some point lusted after over the last 2-3 years... Obviously i'm willing to lose more on something more special, within reason.
So my considerations have been, from cheapest to most expensive:
Focus RS - £25-30k. With its hatchback and AWD I could actually replace both my Cayman as well as my Mondeo daily runabout in one fell swoop and be able to use it i the snow during winter! They're surprisingly quick and fun to drive, and I almost bought one late last year in fact - I probably should have, they hold value pretty well and can sell privately too, so I wouldn't lose a huge amounts on one. But the ride is terrible, the interior is poor, they're a bit yobbish (though I still quite like them!) and the engines have had a history of blowing up (there was a major head-gasket recall, but even after that they haven't been exactly reliable from the reports I saw!).
F-Type V6S Manual - £35-40k, probably not too much depreciation at that price range given how few manuals there are for sale. I prefer manuals to Auto's generally, so think this the better fit than the V8. It doesn't really get me that giddy with excitement right now. Ragtop option a plus in the mountains.
V8 Vantage 4.7 Manual - £42-50k cool but aged. Probably no faster or better than the F-Type. But for the noise, and the badge, depreciation also should be pretty mild. Ragtop option a plus in the mountains.
V12 Vantage Manual - £70-80k think this ones pretty safe depreciation-wise though running costs can be high. I have never considered fuel economy but even I would blink twice at this one!
Cayman GT4 - £70-80k would have said it's safe as houses and is the perfect lesser car for me this time, as I will hit the track for certain. BUT, with the new one about to come out, It'll soon get hammered in resale value. Considering there are 32 cars on sale on autotrader currently that's about 10% of the UK allocation up for sale already... nuts. Also, for £70k it's just not great value for what it is, and I would lose relatively a lot.
Boxster Spyder - £70-80k. I like the idea of top-down GT4... and there's far fewer of them which would be marginally safer than the GT4 for resale, but otherwise all the other issues as above remain.
991.1 GT3 - £100-110k Other than actually I've never particularly loved the 911, the GT3 is the only 911 I would consider, I don't lust after it, though I do like them. Probably cost-wise I'll spend marginally less than with a Macca but for sure they are depreciating now too, and it's not such a buyers market like the 570s. And there's no manual until the 991.2 at which point they become very expensive (and out of my range). And frankly for the same money as a 570, they just aren't as special - to me.
The 570s - on this list would be the most risky, though I think hardly more than the GT3 (or GT4!?). And is by far the best car on the list, and what I lust most for, pretty much of any car within possible future reaching distance on sale today in fact. I should probably be considering a 12C or 650...
I'm steering clear of old Ferrari's and Lambo's for the likelihood of problems, otherwise I'd love a manual F430... just not gonna be likely to happen!
As for TVR, I happen to have a Tuscan S in the UK that I co-own (which I get some occasional use out of - I did take it across Germany from London to Bavaria and back in the summer!). It's great in so many ways! I'm not massively relying on the new Griffith to hold it's value especially, I see it as a good way into my first ever new car for me, and something that should really suit me in many ways. Though, noting the initial lack of supply, the rough spec of the car and the pretty heavy discount that comes at compared to the same spec once the standard non-LE car comes, I think it will hold its value very well at least for the first year or so before starting to drop. But I want that as a long-term keeper. Maybe even a forever car if I love it enough, like our Tuscan is (it's been in the family for nearly 14 years now).
Edited by RiknRoll on Monday 18th February 12:21
Edited by RiknRoll on Monday 18th February 12:32
RiknRoll said:
So the full story - I have a 2008 Cayman S that has had it's time. I've owned it for 8 years, cherished it, and done everything I could possibly have done with it - its in great condition, but It's been overdue for a change for a long time. The way I see it, with my list of "wanted" cars ever growing, I have a unique opportunity to experience something else for 2 summers on the lovely mountain roads near me until the TVR arrives and ruins their serenity! (I live largely in central Europe, not too far from the alps, I just still buy and use UK cars and still go back all the time).
Of course there's always alternative options.... and I look at each option totally differently, and the list largely comes down to the cars I've at some point lusted after over the last 2-3 years... Obviously i'm willing to lose more on something more special, within reason.
So my considerations have been, from cheapest to most expensive:
Focus RS - £25-30k. With its hatchback and AWD I could actually replace both my Cayman as well as my Mondeo daily runabout in one fell swoop and be able to use it i the snow during winter! They're surprisingly quick and fun to drive, and I almost bought one late last year in fact - I probably should have, they hold value pretty well and can sell privately too, so I wouldn't lose a huge amounts on one. But the ride is terrible, the interior is poor, they're a bit yobbish (though I still quite like them!) and the engines have had a history of blowing up (there was a major head-gasket recall, but even after that they haven't been exactly reliable from the reports I saw!).
F-Type V6S Manual - £35-40k, probably not too much depreciation at that price range given how few manuals there are for sale. I prefer manuals to Auto's generally, so think this the better fit than the V8. It doesn't really get me that giddy with excitement right now. Ragtop option a plus in the mountains.
V8 Vantage 4.7 Manual - £42-50k cool but aged. Probably no faster or better than the F-Type. But for the noise, and the badge, depreciation also should be pretty mild. Ragtop option a plus in the mountains.
V12 Vantage Manual - £70-80k think this ones pretty safe depreciation-wise though running costs can be high. I have never considered fuel economy but even I would blink twice at this one!
Cayman GT4 - £70-80k would have said it's safe as houses and is the perfect lesser car for me this time, as I will hit the track for certain. BUT, with the new one about to come out, It'll soon get hammered in resale value. Considering there are 32 cars on sale on autotrader currently that's about 10% of the UK allocation up for sale already... nuts. Also, for £70k it's just not great value for what it is, and I would lose relatively a lot.
Boxster Spyder - £70-80k. I like the idea of top-down GT4... and there's far fewer of them which would be marginally safer than the GT4 for resale, but otherwise all the other issues as above remain.
991.1 GT3 - £100-110k Other than actually I've never particularly loved the 911, the GT3 is the only 911 I would consider, I don't lust after it, though I do like them. Probably cost-wise I'll spend marginally less than with a Macca but for sure they are depreciating now too, and it's not such a buyers market like the 570s. And there's no manual until the 991.2 at which point they become very expensive (and out of my range). And frankly for the same money as a 570, they just aren't as special - to me.
The 570s - on this list would be the most risky, though I think hardly more than the GT3 (or GT4!?). And is by far the best car on the list, and what I lust most for, pretty much of any car within possible future reaching distance on sale today in fact. I should probably be considering a 12C or 650...
I'm steering clear of old Ferrari's and Lambo's for the likelihood of problems, otherwise I'd love a manual F430... just not gonna be likely to happen!
As for TVR, I happen to have a Tuscan S in the UK that I co-own (which I get some occasional use out of - I did take it across Germany from London to Bavaria and back in the summer!). It's great in so many ways! I'm not massively relying on the new Griffith to hold it's value especially, I see it as a good way into my first ever new car for me, and something that should really suit me in many ways. Though, noting the initial lack of supply, the rough spec of the car and the pretty heavy discount that comes at compared to the same spec once the standard non-LE car comes, I think it will hold its value very well at least for the first year or so before starting to drop. But I want that as a long-term keeper. Maybe even a forever car if I love it enough, like our Tuscan is (it's been in the family for nearly 14 years now).
RiknRolI have just been through the same thought process as you. I had a 12C for 2.5 years, drove 14k miles in it. I had a McWarranty & would not buy one without. It was a great car and didn't actually cost my anything to run other than the warranty, depreciation & £1k services. It did have quite a bit of warranty work but it was all covered. If you do get one be prepared for a few months a year off the road. In the end I really wanted a manual gearbox so sold it.Of course there's always alternative options.... and I look at each option totally differently, and the list largely comes down to the cars I've at some point lusted after over the last 2-3 years... Obviously i'm willing to lose more on something more special, within reason.
So my considerations have been, from cheapest to most expensive:
Focus RS - £25-30k. With its hatchback and AWD I could actually replace both my Cayman as well as my Mondeo daily runabout in one fell swoop and be able to use it i the snow during winter! They're surprisingly quick and fun to drive, and I almost bought one late last year in fact - I probably should have, they hold value pretty well and can sell privately too, so I wouldn't lose a huge amounts on one. But the ride is terrible, the interior is poor, they're a bit yobbish (though I still quite like them!) and the engines have had a history of blowing up (there was a major head-gasket recall, but even after that they haven't been exactly reliable from the reports I saw!).
F-Type V6S Manual - £35-40k, probably not too much depreciation at that price range given how few manuals there are for sale. I prefer manuals to Auto's generally, so think this the better fit than the V8. It doesn't really get me that giddy with excitement right now. Ragtop option a plus in the mountains.
V8 Vantage 4.7 Manual - £42-50k cool but aged. Probably no faster or better than the F-Type. But for the noise, and the badge, depreciation also should be pretty mild. Ragtop option a plus in the mountains.
V12 Vantage Manual - £70-80k think this ones pretty safe depreciation-wise though running costs can be high. I have never considered fuel economy but even I would blink twice at this one!
Cayman GT4 - £70-80k would have said it's safe as houses and is the perfect lesser car for me this time, as I will hit the track for certain. BUT, with the new one about to come out, It'll soon get hammered in resale value. Considering there are 32 cars on sale on autotrader currently that's about 10% of the UK allocation up for sale already... nuts. Also, for £70k it's just not great value for what it is, and I would lose relatively a lot.
Boxster Spyder - £70-80k. I like the idea of top-down GT4... and there's far fewer of them which would be marginally safer than the GT4 for resale, but otherwise all the other issues as above remain.
991.1 GT3 - £100-110k Other than actually I've never particularly loved the 911, the GT3 is the only 911 I would consider, I don't lust after it, though I do like them. Probably cost-wise I'll spend marginally less than with a Macca but for sure they are depreciating now too, and it's not such a buyers market like the 570s. And there's no manual until the 991.2 at which point they become very expensive (and out of my range). And frankly for the same money as a 570, they just aren't as special - to me.
The 570s - on this list would be the most risky, though I think hardly more than the GT3 (or GT4!?). And is by far the best car on the list, and what I lust most for, pretty much of any car within possible future reaching distance on sale today in fact. I should probably be considering a 12C or 650...
I'm steering clear of old Ferrari's and Lambo's for the likelihood of problems, otherwise I'd love a manual F430... just not gonna be likely to happen!
As for TVR, I happen to have a Tuscan S in the UK that I co-own (which I get some occasional use out of - I did take it across Germany from London to Bavaria and back in the summer!). It's great in so many ways! I'm not massively relying on the new Griffith to hold it's value especially, I see it as a good way into my first ever new car for me, and something that should really suit me in many ways. Though, noting the initial lack of supply, the rough spec of the car and the pretty heavy discount that comes at compared to the same spec once the standard non-LE car comes, I think it will hold its value very well at least for the first year or so before starting to drop. But I want that as a long-term keeper. Maybe even a forever car if I love it enough, like our Tuscan is (it's been in the family for nearly 14 years now).
Edited by RiknRoll on Monday 18th February 12:21
Edited by RiknRoll on Monday 18th February 12:32
At the same time as the McLaren I also ran a 1998 F355 manual. It cost me a fortune. I got no pleasure from it and spent all my time driving it to and from Ferrari specialists and cursing it. The only car I have ever owned that has stranded me at the roadside. I think you are right to stay clear of elderly Italian exotics, I won't be going there again.
I sold both and bought a new Exige 350 sport as a stop gap. That was a great car, so much in fact that I just pxed it for a 430 CUP, which is astoundingly brilliant but not sure if that's what you are looking for?
I also wanted a car for touring in the Alps & Europe and was thinking of a 650S, 570GT or 991.2 GT3 Manual. After driving those and many other cars over a period of 9 months I settled on the Boxster Spyder. regardless of a new model coming out and what that may mean to future values its an amazing car. I think its the best all round car I have ever bought. Quick, sounds great, manual box, comfortable, roof comes off, plenty of stowage, lots of toys sat nav / ac / carbon seats etc & hopefully reliable with reasonable running costs.. There are only 219 RHD Spyders. The new one will probably be £90k with options & you won't be able to get one. Therefore I don't see prices falling very much at all. I looked at current prices of Spyders / GT4's, / GT3's / GTS's and as an average they depreciate £5k pa until they hit their bottom. They are probably the safest bet money wise. But even if they do drop £10k, so what! There are only around 10 for sale and the good spec ones will all be snapped up and you will not have a choice of spec.
Get what you want and enjoy it, keep an eye on residuals but don't let that be the most important factor or you will not get the car you truly want. When you find a car you really gel with you wont care about depreciation as it will become part of the family, it's only if you make the wrong choice and don't like the car you choose that depreciation becomes a consuming concern.
RiknRoll said:
….. a lot of sensible things.....
Thanks for that, a much clearer picture 
Of the list, Boxster or V12 Vantage for me.... the Boxster is a brilliant car and the V12 vantage is just astounding. A mate has a non-manual V12 Vantage and they go like stink and even though he's quite 'frugal / careful' with money he never complains about fuel economy. Try one though, especially the manual as the V8 Vantage manual I had was dreadful.
Alternatively, buy another TVR. Sagaris are just on the cusp of being too expensive to use so seek out a T350 which has had a 4.0 rebuild, perfect for fun in the hills.
[quote=Bispal]
RiknRolI have just been through the same thought process as you. I had a 12C for 2.5 years, drove 14k miles in it. I had a McWarranty & would not buy one without. It was a great car and didn't actually cost my anything to run other than the warranty, depreciation & £1k services. It did have quite a bit of warranty work but it was all covered. If you do get one be prepared for a few months a year off the road. In the end I really wanted a manual gearbox so sold it.
At the same time as the McLaren I also ran a 1998 F355 manual. It cost me a fortune. I got no pleasure from it and spent all my time driving it to and from Ferrari specialists and cursing it. The only car I have ever owned that has stranded me at the roadside. I think you are right to stay clear of elderly Italian exotics, I won't be going there again.
I sold both and bought a new Exige 350 sport as a stop gap. That was a great car, so much in fact that I just pxed it for a 430 CUP, which is astoundingly brilliant but not sure if that's what you are looking for?
I also wanted a car for touring in the Alps & Europe and was thinking of a 650S, 570GT or 991.2 GT3 Manual. After driving those and many other cars over a period of 9 months I settled on the Boxster Spyder. regardless of a new model coming out and what that may mean to future values its an amazing car. I think its the best all round car I have ever bought. Quick, sounds great, manual box, comfortable, roof comes off, plenty of stowage, lots of toys sat nav / ac / carbon seats etc & hopefully reliable with reasonable running costs.. There are only 219 RHD Spyders. The new one will probably be £90k with options & you won't be able to get one. Therefore I don't see prices falling very much at all. I looked at current prices of Spyders / GT4's, / GT3's / GTS's and as an average they depreciate £5k pa until they hit their bottom. They are probably the safest bet money wise. But even if they do drop £10k, so what! There are only around 10 for sale and the good spec ones will all be snapped up and you will not have a choice of spec.
Get what you want and enjoy it, keep an eye on residuals but don't let that be the most important factor or you will not get the car you truly want. When you find a car you really gel with you wont care about depreciation as it will become part of the family, it's only if you make the wrong choice and don't like the car you choose that depreciation becomes a consuming concern.
Did you just purchase the Red 430 Cup from Oakmere by any chance ?
RiknRolI have just been through the same thought process as you. I had a 12C for 2.5 years, drove 14k miles in it. I had a McWarranty & would not buy one without. It was a great car and didn't actually cost my anything to run other than the warranty, depreciation & £1k services. It did have quite a bit of warranty work but it was all covered. If you do get one be prepared for a few months a year off the road. In the end I really wanted a manual gearbox so sold it.
At the same time as the McLaren I also ran a 1998 F355 manual. It cost me a fortune. I got no pleasure from it and spent all my time driving it to and from Ferrari specialists and cursing it. The only car I have ever owned that has stranded me at the roadside. I think you are right to stay clear of elderly Italian exotics, I won't be going there again.
I sold both and bought a new Exige 350 sport as a stop gap. That was a great car, so much in fact that I just pxed it for a 430 CUP, which is astoundingly brilliant but not sure if that's what you are looking for?
I also wanted a car for touring in the Alps & Europe and was thinking of a 650S, 570GT or 991.2 GT3 Manual. After driving those and many other cars over a period of 9 months I settled on the Boxster Spyder. regardless of a new model coming out and what that may mean to future values its an amazing car. I think its the best all round car I have ever bought. Quick, sounds great, manual box, comfortable, roof comes off, plenty of stowage, lots of toys sat nav / ac / carbon seats etc & hopefully reliable with reasonable running costs.. There are only 219 RHD Spyders. The new one will probably be £90k with options & you won't be able to get one. Therefore I don't see prices falling very much at all. I looked at current prices of Spyders / GT4's, / GT3's / GTS's and as an average they depreciate £5k pa until they hit their bottom. They are probably the safest bet money wise. But even if they do drop £10k, so what! There are only around 10 for sale and the good spec ones will all be snapped up and you will not have a choice of spec.
Get what you want and enjoy it, keep an eye on residuals but don't let that be the most important factor or you will not get the car you truly want. When you find a car you really gel with you wont care about depreciation as it will become part of the family, it's only if you make the wrong choice and don't like the car you choose that depreciation becomes a consuming concern.
Did you just purchase the Red 430 Cup from Oakmere by any chance ?
The Surveyor said:
Thanks for that, a much clearer picture
Of the list, Boxster or V12 Vantage for me.... the Boxster is a brilliant car and the V12 vantage is just astounding. A mate has a non-manual V12 Vantage and they go like stink and even though he's quite 'frugal / careful' with money he never complains about fuel economy. Try one though, especially the manual as the V8 Vantage manual I had was dreadful.
Alternatively, buy another TVR. Sagaris are just on the cusp of being too expensive to use so seek out a T350 which has had a 4.0 rebuild, perfect for fun in the hills.
Well thanks for the nice compliment! You also said several sensible things too! (hence the very long answer it took!).Of the list, Boxster or V12 Vantage for me.... the Boxster is a brilliant car and the V12 vantage is just astounding. A mate has a non-manual V12 Vantage and they go like stink and even though he's quite 'frugal / careful' with money he never complains about fuel economy. Try one though, especially the manual as the V8 Vantage manual I had was dreadful.
Alternatively, buy another TVR. Sagaris are just on the cusp of being too expensive to use so seek out a T350 which has had a 4.0 rebuild, perfect for fun in the hills.
I have to admit the Boxster and V12 both do stand out. The Boxster is growing on me a lot, would fit my needs very well indeed, like the GT4 would, but even better for the road trips and mountains - and it looks lovely, and the supply is limited. But new one about to pop... and as my brother says, anyone who really wants a boxster to cruise about in will get an S or GTS for much less money.
I actually did have a short drive in a V12 Vantage S year before last, but with the "sportshift 2" auto box that totally ruined the experience for me - I hated it that much (ok so a short drive and I've never used a box like that isn't likely to being the best results, but I truly thought it hateful!). But it's oh so sexy!
I briefly considered a T350, but nah - in fact I had considered one 8 years ago when buying my Cayman. I have the Tuscan still, so it wouldn't bring a new experience. More importantly in Switzerland I think it would be the most impractical car possible. My neighbours will report me to the Fuzz for disturbing them (I kid you not) and I'll generally get stopped every 2.5 minutes. As well as the turning circle being so bad i'll never get it turned into my garage without scrapes - and no garage nearby who will have any idea of how to pull one apart or put it back together again (not that our Tuscan hasn't been reliable - its been frankly unbelievably good!). Not to mention keeping the battery alive over winter! Otherwise yeah, so tempting - and you won't lose anything on those either.
So yeah that does wittle the choices down a bit:
V12 Vantage for about £70k - potentially a mega car and lets face it, have always wanted an Aston at some point in my life! I wont lose much on depreciation at all, but will pay dealer spread, so overall probably £10k ish loss excluding any possible warranty purchase (maybe less if I can cut a deal with a dealer for resale, and get myself a good deal in the first place). No ragtop option though - which would lead me to add back into the list a:
V8 Vantage Roadster for about £45k - probably the worst dynamically, but I wont lose too much on it, probably £6-8k.
Boxster for about £70k - possibly the car that suits me the most as a stop-gap, but likely to get hit hard by the new one coming this summer. So I reckon we're talking a possible £10k drop in asking prices due to the new one and dealer spread on top of that... making a mean total of £15-18k loss. Would cost much less to run though.
OR the 570s. If I can pick up a relatively low mileage car and bargain on something for about £100k (and I'm very squarely looking at that red one advertised right now) and push the price hard, and do a deal to reduce the resale cost on SOR, then maybe, just maybe I could squeeze it into a loss of £15k, with a touch of luck. That is, if Mclaren don't flood the market by bringing out the replacement at Geneva next year.
Edited by RiknRoll on Monday 18th February 21:07
Bispal said:
RiknRolI have just been through the same thought process as you. I had a 12C for 2.5 years, drove 14k miles in it. I had a McWarranty & would not buy one without. It was a great car and didn't actually cost my anything to run other than the warranty, depreciation & £1k services. It did have quite a bit of warranty work but it was all covered. If you do get one be prepared for a few months a year off the road. In the end I really wanted a manual gearbox so sold it.
At the same time as the McLaren I also ran a 1998 F355 manual. It cost me a fortune. I got no pleasure from it and spent all my time driving it to and from Ferrari specialists and cursing it. The only car I have ever owned that has stranded me at the roadside. I think you are right to stay clear of elderly Italian exotics, I won't be going there again.
I sold both and bought a new Exige 350 sport as a stop gap. That was a great car, so much in fact that I just pxed it for a 430 CUP, which is astoundingly brilliant but not sure if that's what you are looking for?
I also wanted a car for touring in the Alps & Europe and was thinking of a 650S, 570GT or 991.2 GT3 Manual. After driving those and many other cars over a period of 9 months I settled on the Boxster Spyder. regardless of a new model coming out and what that may mean to future values its an amazing car. I think its the best all round car I have ever bought. Quick, sounds great, manual box, comfortable, roof comes off, plenty of stowage, lots of toys sat nav / ac / carbon seats etc & hopefully reliable with reasonable running costs.. There are only 219 RHD Spyders. The new one will probably be £90k with options & you won't be able to get one. Therefore I don't see prices falling very much at all. I looked at current prices of Spyders / GT4's, / GT3's / GTS's and as an average they depreciate £5k pa until they hit their bottom. They are probably the safest bet money wise. But even if they do drop £10k, so what! There are only around 10 for sale and the good spec ones will all be snapped up and you will not have a choice of spec.
Get what you want and enjoy it, keep an eye on residuals but don't let that be the most important factor or you will not get the car you truly want. When you find a car you really gel with you wont care about depreciation as it will become part of the family, it's only if you make the wrong choice and don't like the car you choose that depreciation becomes a consuming concern.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, definitely useful! Very glad to hear someone with first hand experience of the 12C and boxster too! Out of curiosity how did you like the 12C? Did it lack emotion like some reviewers say, or is it right now the bargain of the century??At the same time as the McLaren I also ran a 1998 F355 manual. It cost me a fortune. I got no pleasure from it and spent all my time driving it to and from Ferrari specialists and cursing it. The only car I have ever owned that has stranded me at the roadside. I think you are right to stay clear of elderly Italian exotics, I won't be going there again.
I sold both and bought a new Exige 350 sport as a stop gap. That was a great car, so much in fact that I just pxed it for a 430 CUP, which is astoundingly brilliant but not sure if that's what you are looking for?
I also wanted a car for touring in the Alps & Europe and was thinking of a 650S, 570GT or 991.2 GT3 Manual. After driving those and many other cars over a period of 9 months I settled on the Boxster Spyder. regardless of a new model coming out and what that may mean to future values its an amazing car. I think its the best all round car I have ever bought. Quick, sounds great, manual box, comfortable, roof comes off, plenty of stowage, lots of toys sat nav / ac / carbon seats etc & hopefully reliable with reasonable running costs.. There are only 219 RHD Spyders. The new one will probably be £90k with options & you won't be able to get one. Therefore I don't see prices falling very much at all. I looked at current prices of Spyders / GT4's, / GT3's / GTS's and as an average they depreciate £5k pa until they hit their bottom. They are probably the safest bet money wise. But even if they do drop £10k, so what! There are only around 10 for sale and the good spec ones will all be snapped up and you will not have a choice of spec.
Get what you want and enjoy it, keep an eye on residuals but don't let that be the most important factor or you will not get the car you truly want. When you find a car you really gel with you wont care about depreciation as it will become part of the family, it's only if you make the wrong choice and don't like the car you choose that depreciation becomes a consuming concern.
I actually haven't thought at all about Lotus... maybe I should take a peak at them. I have somewhat lost touch wittheir range as it stands but that's easily fixed!
As to your last line, ordinarily I would totally agree with you, except that is what the next car after this is for, and this right now is to tick something else off my list for a shortish time to enjoy before settling down and getting married... err... to the Griffith! (and if that doesn't work out undoubtedly I'll end up in a Mclaren after a short but painful divorce!). Were I not committed as I am, I would take your advice... and just do it!
Edited by RiknRoll on Monday 18th February 21:20
RiknRoll said:
Thanks for sharing your experiences, definitely useful! Very glad to hear someone with first hand experience of the 12C and boxster too! Out of curiosity how did you like the 12C? Did it lack emotion like some reviewers say, or is it right now the bargain of the century??
I actually haven't thought at all about Lotus... maybe I should take a peak at them. I have somewhat lost touch wittheir range as it stands but that's easily fixed!
As to your last line, ordinarily I would totally agree with you, except that is what the next car after this is for, and this right now is to tick something else off my list for a shortish time to enjoy before settling down and getting married... err... to the Griffith! (and if that doesn't work out undoubtedly I'll end up in a Mclaren after a short but painful divorce!). Where I not committed as I am, I would take your advice... and just do it!
The 12C is indeed the bargain of the century. They are unbelievably fast, comfortable, economical and brilliant for touring. Its almost impossible to buy any car, at the price they are now, that will be as quick. So if its speed you are after its the only option. However there is more to a car than speed and while the McLaren has many other positives for me it just missed a manual gearbox and low speed engagement. I actually haven't thought at all about Lotus... maybe I should take a peak at them. I have somewhat lost touch wittheir range as it stands but that's easily fixed!
As to your last line, ordinarily I would totally agree with you, except that is what the next car after this is for, and this right now is to tick something else off my list for a shortish time to enjoy before settling down and getting married... err... to the Griffith! (and if that doesn't work out undoubtedly I'll end up in a Mclaren after a short but painful divorce!). Where I not committed as I am, I would take your advice... and just do it!
I like to enjoy my cars at road legal speeds. My daily driver is a Mk1 MX5 and I can throw it around and rev the engine to the red line and even get sideways all within the legal speed limits. When I was on the M-way in the 12C I might as well have been in a Golf (apart from people taking photos & staring), it was that refined. That's a good thing but when you drive 2,500 miles through Europe and all you remember is the high speed Autobahn run and a few fast overtakes that's a shame.
The 12C is so good at everything, even going fast, that it is difficult to know how to extract any enjoyment from it when going slowly (other than that of owning it) . You can't rev it out. or you will be breaking the speed limit in 1 second, there are no gears to change, it doesn't make the best sound (but it is ok) however you are not going to get much excitement form the sound, the brakes are a bit grabby and while it does corner and steer very well again its not something that I found engaging.
I was going to keep the 12C, as I really liked it as a fast touring car, but someone I knew offered to buy it at a fair price so I sold. I was lucky I lost very little money on the car, if I had kept it another 6 months I would have lost a lot, lot more!
I would get another and it would be a 12C, not a 650S, as I think the 12C is the purer more cohesive & elegant design. However you do need £5k pa for the warranty and do expect it to spend 6-8 weeks a year at the dealer being worked on. If you can accept that then you are in for a treat.
However if you like your fun at lower speeds then do what I did and get the Spyder or GT4 or even an Exige 410. There is much more playfulness at lower speeds. I do not believe the Spyder will drop massively in price. The new car will be around £90k with extras and could see six figures with overs. They will be announced at Goodwod FoS and will probably not hit the showrooms until the winter. When they do there will only be around 200 of them and 50% of the owners will probably keep them long term, another 25% will keep for a year or so, and almost all will want to own till the spring / summer 2020 to use a bit so you will be lucky if 10% sell immediately (20 cars) and if they do they will not be allowed anymore Porsche special / GT cars in the future.
Even if the Spyder did lose £10k in a year it will be a lot less than a 12C and with 1 years warranty only £1k its a lot less than £5k. Same for a 570. I still think if you want to reduce depreciation then buy a Spyder not a McLaren. If you want no depreciation then buy the V12V. Not my thing I test drove a V8V and have been in a couple of V12V's and they did nothing for me, I would rather get a 12C and pay £15k pa for the privilege.
Good luck choosing, that's the fun bit!
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