Discussion
I have a V12 Vantage and it is wonderful. I really like the 570s and the 650 but I can’t bring myself to let the Aston go. No matter what people say the Aston sound is incomparable to the McLaren and they never feel slow. It would be nice to own both but there is no way I could justify it. The Aston over 5 years has cost me very little and seems to have barely deprecated and of course can be run with no warranty. No bad choices here just comes down to cost and how much you want one.
bentley01 said:
I have a V12 Vantage and it is wonderful. I really like the 570s and the 650 but I can’t bring myself to let the Aston go. No matter what people say the Aston sound is incomparable to the McLaren and they never feel slow. It would be nice to own both but there is no way I could justify it. The Aston over 5 years has cost me very little and seems to have barely deprecated and of course can be run with no warranty. No bad choices here just comes down to cost and how much you want one.
Thanks for sharing your experiences of it, very good to hear indeed - yeah I went to the local AM dealership here tonight after work quickly and had a poke around their last old style (brand new) V8 and V12 vantages in stock... admittedly they are younger and face lifted compared to the versions I'm looking at, but, I couldn't deny the quality feel, and the special-ness. And it's come down to this - the Porsche is probably dynamically a bit better and will occasionally, with the top down in the sunny mountains be more fun, but only occasionally. The rest of the time, I'll just feel more special in the AM - and the 10 year old inside me will constantly have his jaw wide open. I'll never have to explain to my friends why my boxster isn't a hairdressers one either.... and the new ones about to come, and that makes it a much less safe investment.
I see the AM as a very safe purchase - hardly depreciating, and it's always been on my want list. And it won't overshadow the TVR when it comes either. I probably want a 570s more... but it's a really big stretch to my budget right now (i'd need at least a little financing certainly), and far riskier for a short term stop-gap proposal which this purchase is meant to be. And if anything does happen to the TVR order, well than I can still get out of the AM without a huge loss, to take on a 570s (and they'll be cheaper than they are now too!).
So I think that's it. Decision made - AMV12V. That is of course until I start staring at Mclarens and change my mind again!!... or on the off chance I test a V8 Roadster and decide I prefer the idea of that. Now for some serious Vantage shopping!
Thanks everyone for the help so far, its been very helpful and is much appreciated - any more words of wisdom and opinions, I'll be very glad to hear them still.
My only worry with the Vantage will be how much track usage I can get without risking needing a Ceramic Disc change, or damaging the value of the car by bringing them near to the end of their life. Anyone got any experience of that? I can envisage myself doing approx 6-8 track days total over 2 years, some days harder than others. I know that will mean definitely one pad change in that time, but its the cost of the discs that I worry about, not the pads.
RiknRoll said:
My only worry with the Vantage will be how much track usage I can get without risking needing a Ceramic Disc change, or damaging the value of the car by bringing them near to the end of their life. Anyone got any experience of that? I can envisage myself doing approx 6-8 track days total over 2 years, some days harder than others. I know that will mean definitely one pad change in that time, but its the cost of the discs that I worry about, not the pads.
That really depends how you drive as well tbh. The vantage is a heavy car so it doesn't really help but 3-4 trackdays a year with (a lot of) cooling laps should mean you can get away with it if you are happy to drive the car with esc off.RiknRoll said:
As for the Lotuses - the Exige is too small and spartan for the longer road trips I want to do, so it could only be an Evora. I can't say I love them, and seem to me to be quite cramped inside, though I don't doubt they are good cars - are they difficult to move on after? it seems to me that the majority of car buyers seem to forget lotus a bit. There's a couple of cars around £42k for sale, which seems reasonable.
I drove 9 hours in my Exige last Thursday. 4 hours, then 1 hour break then 5 hours, non stop (except for the loo, didn't even need fuel on each leg as 30mpg). I was fine, no arches or pains (and I am late 40's), plenty of room, good stereo. It is cramped if 2 up but the boot is actually quite large, 3 big squashy bags as it goes all the way into the rear wings.I still think you are wrong about Spyder prices and perception, and anyway who buys a car because of what other people think of it? Actually many probably do but that's never been my criteria, I have a Mk1 MX5 for my daily and a Mk2 Micra for driving into London & station duty! As I explained before new Spyder will be expensive, limited and re-sales will be restricted by contract and owners wanting to keep.
I test drove an AM Vantages when I had a 996 C2 and decided it was dynamically a lot worse than the 996 so I didn't buy it. I get why people do though, looks and sounds nice but it fell to pieces on the road when pushed a little. However as touring and low depreciation seem to be high on your priority list then that's 2 boxes ticked (apart from touring MPG).
If you want a 570 I would just get one, or a 12C, there are 12C spyders I have seen under £90k and surely they can't fall more. Get a 570 if that's what you want, its an awesome car to drive, absolutely one of the best ever. For me I don't like the way they look but that's personal and not relevant if you like them. They have ceramics and they are known to wear on track. To save money and for track I would consider a 540 as they have steel brakes, some bargains about too and seem to be nicely specced, probably similar price to the AM.
I have my old V12 Vantage sitting unused since I got in the 650s. For me, as previously posted, I don't miss the sound as much as I do manual rev matching & downshifting. The 650s sounds great inside, backlight or top down. Unfortunately the Vantage does feel its weight on track compared to the Mac, and seems a bit pokey now. Especially once you get beyond the boosted initial throttle response in sport mode.
I used to track the V12V in the first couple of years I had it - after about 4 reasonable track days needed to replace the pads but the ceramics were fine - still are.
I used to track the V12V in the first couple of years I had it - after about 4 reasonable track days needed to replace the pads but the ceramics were fine - still are.
Edited by 12pack on Thursday 21st February 10:35
Bispal said:
I still think you are wrong about Spyder prices and perception, and anyway who buys a car because of what other people think of it? Actually many probably do but that's never been my criteria, I have a Mk1 MX5 for my daily and a Mk2 Micra for driving into London & station duty! As I explained before new Spyder will be expensive, limited and re-sales will be restricted by contract and owners wanting to keep.
I test drove an AM Vantages when I had a 996 C2 and decided it was dynamically a lot worse than the 996 so I didn't buy it. I get why people do though, looks and sounds nice but it fell to pieces on the road when pushed a little. However as touring and low depreciation seem to be high on your priority list then that's 2 boxes ticked (apart from touring MPG).
If you want a 570 I would just get one, or a 12C, there are 12C spyders I have seen under £90k and surely they can't fall more. Get a 570 if that's what you want, its an awesome car to drive, absolutely one of the best ever. For me I don't like the way they look but that's personal and not relevant if you like them. They have ceramics and they are known to wear on track. To save money and for track I would consider a 540 as they have steel brakes, some bargains about too and seem to be nicely specced, probably similar price to the AM.
To be fair, I also don't particularly care what others say either and I'm not baisng the decision on that. I test drove an AM Vantages when I had a 996 C2 and decided it was dynamically a lot worse than the 996 so I didn't buy it. I get why people do though, looks and sounds nice but it fell to pieces on the road when pushed a little. However as touring and low depreciation seem to be high on your priority list then that's 2 boxes ticked (apart from touring MPG).
If you want a 570 I would just get one, or a 12C, there are 12C spyders I have seen under £90k and surely they can't fall more. Get a 570 if that's what you want, its an awesome car to drive, absolutely one of the best ever. For me I don't like the way they look but that's personal and not relevant if you like them. They have ceramics and they are known to wear on track. To save money and for track I would consider a 540 as they have steel brakes, some bargains about too and seem to be nicely specced, probably similar price to the AM.
AM are still dynamically very good cars - there are others out there which are a bit better, but a lot of people and reviewers just LOVE the V12V. and It comes down to the feeling when in it. I have an (admittedly old) Cayman S now, so I feel I have a good enough idea roughly how the GT4/Spyder will feel (and ive sat in my friends GT4 whilst hooning about an F1 track too). Undoubtedly they are very good, but it's not really an event getting in it, esp. after having owned one for 8 years... The Aston is.
Also, when coming to resell, I can't quite get my head around why would someone buy a £65k car, for £70k when they can buy a £140k car for £70k. That boxster at £70k is not good value, yes thats oversimplifying things a bit, but it does make a point... the AM is not an unknown in resale currently, but the Boxster very much is, the new one not helping. Though as I say, I do think the boxster is quite a bit safer than a GT4 now. For me, it would be a distinct step upgrade, but not utilising well the opportunity to experience something different.
12C at £80-90k I agree is a great bargain, better value than the AM probably - from what I can tell they still are falling though... almost unbelievable... I don't know why so many people ignore them but they do. Hard one that. Same with 650s at £115k now.
A 540c would be good but actually they are advertised at £100k, which is no cheaper than a 570s. And if I go for steel brakes then i'm better off with a 570gt for not much more. But I think for the use we are talking, the 570s carbon ceramics should be just fine and not require changing - I would be quite surprised if not.
So yeah, maybe I'll still consider mclarens... I just can't ignore them... they are freaking great I think.
Edited by RiknRoll on Thursday 21st February 16:48
[quote=RiknRoll]
To be fair, I also don't particularly care what others say either and I'm not baisng the decision on that.
AM are still dynamically very good cars - there are others out there which are a bit better, but a lot of people and reviewers just LOVE the V12V. and It comes down to the feeling when in it. I have an (admittedly old) Cayman S now, so I feel I have a good enough idea roughly how the GT4/Spyder will feel (and ive sat in my friends GT4 whilst hooning about an F1 track too). Undoubtedly they are very good, but it's not really an event getting in it, esp. after having owned one for 8 years... The Aston is.
Also, when coming to resell, I can't quite get my head around why would someone buy a £65k car, for £70k when they can buy a £140k car for £70k. That boxster at £70k is not good value, yes thats oversimplifying things a bit, but it does make a point... the AM is not an unknown in resale currently, but the Boxster very much is, the new one not helping. Though as I say, I do think the boxster is quite a bit safer than a GT4 now. For me, it would be a distinct step upgrade, but utilising well the opportunity to experience something different.
12C at £80-90k I agree is a great bargain, better value than the AM probably - from what I can tell they still are falling though... almost unbelievable... I don't know why so many people ignore them but they do. Hard one that. Same with 650s at £115k now.
A 540c would be good but actually they are advertised at £100k, which is no cheaper than a 570s. And if I go for steel brakes then i'm better off with a 570gt for not much more. But I think for the use we are talking, the 570s carbon ceramics should be just fine and not require changing - I would be quite surprised if not.
So yeah, maybe I'll still consider mclarens... I just can't ignore them... they are freaking great I think.[/quot
I agree with ur point above on the GT4, I test drove one last year before I tried the V12VS..thought it was a nice machine very capable and at the time less than 5k of a price diff to the Vantage. However when I tried the V12VS it was a no contest, for me it really told that one was originally a 150k car new and the other half of that. Love my V12 such a characterful car, ok its slower than the Mclaren's but its still plenty quick enough. Took mine to the Nurburgring last yr and it was mighty around there. Having said that I do fancy a Mclaren as my next car but like you the deprec and running costs would give me cause for concern.
To be fair, I also don't particularly care what others say either and I'm not baisng the decision on that.
AM are still dynamically very good cars - there are others out there which are a bit better, but a lot of people and reviewers just LOVE the V12V. and It comes down to the feeling when in it. I have an (admittedly old) Cayman S now, so I feel I have a good enough idea roughly how the GT4/Spyder will feel (and ive sat in my friends GT4 whilst hooning about an F1 track too). Undoubtedly they are very good, but it's not really an event getting in it, esp. after having owned one for 8 years... The Aston is.
Also, when coming to resell, I can't quite get my head around why would someone buy a £65k car, for £70k when they can buy a £140k car for £70k. That boxster at £70k is not good value, yes thats oversimplifying things a bit, but it does make a point... the AM is not an unknown in resale currently, but the Boxster very much is, the new one not helping. Though as I say, I do think the boxster is quite a bit safer than a GT4 now. For me, it would be a distinct step upgrade, but utilising well the opportunity to experience something different.
12C at £80-90k I agree is a great bargain, better value than the AM probably - from what I can tell they still are falling though... almost unbelievable... I don't know why so many people ignore them but they do. Hard one that. Same with 650s at £115k now.
A 540c would be good but actually they are advertised at £100k, which is no cheaper than a 570s. And if I go for steel brakes then i'm better off with a 570gt for not much more. But I think for the use we are talking, the 570s carbon ceramics should be just fine and not require changing - I would be quite surprised if not.
So yeah, maybe I'll still consider mclarens... I just can't ignore them... they are freaking great I think.[/quot
I agree with ur point above on the GT4, I test drove one last year before I tried the V12VS..thought it was a nice machine very capable and at the time less than 5k of a price diff to the Vantage. However when I tried the V12VS it was a no contest, for me it really told that one was originally a 150k car new and the other half of that. Love my V12 such a characterful car, ok its slower than the Mclaren's but its still plenty quick enough. Took mine to the Nurburgring last yr and it was mighty around there. Having said that I do fancy a Mclaren as my next car but like you the deprec and running costs would give me cause for concern.
RSbandit said:
....Took mine to the Nurburgring last yr and it was mighty around there. Having said that I do fancy a Mclaren as my next car but like you the deprec and running costs would give me cause for concern.
I'm planning to do just that with my future car - how did you find your tire and brake wear after your time at the Ring? I put new tyres on it before the Ring and the wear was very reasonable. I don't go balls out every lap did about 30 laps over two days, I would say I was properly pressing on on about 10 of those, brake pads the same no probs there but I do drive with a certain amount of mechanical sympathy and I also don't wanna end up on youtube! Car seems well matched to that circuit, such a gutsy engine that keeps on giving especially on those long fast uphill sections. The SS3 gearbox works best when the car is being pushed. Hope to return to the Ring in September for another double header. It was also the only Aston on those track days which made it unique in a sea of GT4's and GT3's.
V12 Vantage is for sure a safe purchase - they’ve handly moved in price for a few years now and are a truly epic car.
I have a V12V and a 570S Spider - the 570 is a better car in terms of feel and handling but there is something special about the Aston. Whilst the Aston is not as fast on paper as the Mclaren, in the real world there is not much in it because the Aston has so much torque grunt. On a motorway for example, the Aston will happily accelerate hard in sixth gear, the 570 needs to drop a couple of ratios to get the same push.
Of the two cars I do drive the 570 more but I never tire of the Aston - it feels so special and sounds amazing (with cats removed). Ideal world is to have both but of course that’s very much a luxury - you can’t go wrong with either. If you were to take overall cost of ownership out of the equation, the 570S would edge it for me but when factoring in the overall cost of ownership I don’t think you can be an early V12V that’s pretty much done most of it’s depreciation.
I have a V12V and a 570S Spider - the 570 is a better car in terms of feel and handling but there is something special about the Aston. Whilst the Aston is not as fast on paper as the Mclaren, in the real world there is not much in it because the Aston has so much torque grunt. On a motorway for example, the Aston will happily accelerate hard in sixth gear, the 570 needs to drop a couple of ratios to get the same push.
Of the two cars I do drive the 570 more but I never tire of the Aston - it feels so special and sounds amazing (with cats removed). Ideal world is to have both but of course that’s very much a luxury - you can’t go wrong with either. If you were to take overall cost of ownership out of the equation, the 570S would edge it for me but when factoring in the overall cost of ownership I don’t think you can be an early V12V that’s pretty much done most of it’s depreciation.
More than the torque, its the instant throttle response off low revs (in Sport mode) of the V12V that is remarkable. Though to be honest, the throttle profile is a bit skewed - you get 40-50% response with the first 10% of travel - then a bit of a flat spot in the mid-range (unfortunately just when shifting to 3rd on track) before the top end lunge to the rev limiter.
RiknRoll said:
sjc said:
How about one of these as a stop gap ( well mine has been an 11 year one !). Should be pretty much depreciation free?
No.. not the Rover!
No.. not the Rover!
Edited by sjc on Thursday 21st February 18:24
Mad. Lovely rover though!
justin220 said:
Both great cars either way, and depends what you want from a car.
I would have thought the 570s would have had a higher torque figure than the V12?
Slightly lower.I would have thought the 570s would have had a higher torque figure than the V12?
The V12 Vantage s gives 457 lbft compared to the 570s 443 lbft. Close but the Aston takes that top-trump card
The Surveyor said:
Slightly lower.
The V12 Vantage s gives 457 lbft compared to the 570s 443 lbft. Close but the Aston takes that top-trump card
Hurrah for top trumps!The V12 Vantage s gives 457 lbft compared to the 570s 443 lbft. Close but the Aston takes that top-trump card
Noble - awesome but I can't believe they have any practicality whatsoever for a road trip ! Not badly priced though for a toy it has to be said
RiknRoll said:
The Surveyor said:
Slightly lower.
The V12 Vantage s gives 457 lbft compared to the 570s 443 lbft. Close but the Aston takes that top-trump card
Hurrah for top trumps!The V12 Vantage s gives 457 lbft compared to the 570s 443 lbft. Close but the Aston takes that top-trump card
Noble - awesome but I can't believe they have any practicality whatsoever for a road trip ! Not badly priced though for a toy it has to be said
Plenty have done road trips in them ... where there’s a will there’s a way !
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