What,Can and Should Mclaren be Doing About Protecting Resale
Discussion
They do need to sort it. Was in a Mac dealer last week, the part-ex bids to 570 owners who want to trade up to a spider or 720 meant they were 40/50k down in 12 months! They told me they were struggling to get deals closed.
If you paid 140k for a 570s in 2018 you'll now see a trade bid of 90/95k.
If you'd bought a 458 for 140k last year & sold it to the trade this year, you'd lose dealer margin,10/15k ish...
Ferrari are struggling to shift 488's too but I'm sorry to say that Macs are depreciating at a level that will stop owners being loyal to the brand.
I really want a 720 but not sure I wanna do 50k + in 12/18 months!
If you paid 140k for a 570s in 2018 you'll now see a trade bid of 90/95k.
If you'd bought a 458 for 140k last year & sold it to the trade this year, you'd lose dealer margin,10/15k ish...
Ferrari are struggling to shift 488's too but I'm sorry to say that Macs are depreciating at a level that will stop owners being loyal to the brand.
I really want a 720 but not sure I wanna do 50k + in 12/18 months!
ferdi p said:
They do need to sort it. Was in a Mac dealer last week, the part-ex bids to 570 owners who want to trade up to a spider or 720 meant they were 40/50k down in 12 months! They told me they were struggling to get deals closed.
If you paid 140k for a 570s in 2018 you'll now see a trade bid of 90/95k.
If you'd bought a 458 for 140k last year & sold it to the trade this year, you'd lose dealer margin,10/15k ish...
Ferrari are struggling to shift 488's too but I'm sorry to say that Macs are depreciating at a level that will stop owners being loyal to the brand.
I really want a 720 but not sure I wanna do 50k + in 12/18 months!
They need to help/facilitate the used market. and encourage specialists to take on the earlier cars.. making parts, diagnostics easily available to independent specialist dealers.. This would help the residuals of older cars (that McLaren probably don't want to be supporting directly through official dealer networks.)If you paid 140k for a 570s in 2018 you'll now see a trade bid of 90/95k.
If you'd bought a 458 for 140k last year & sold it to the trade this year, you'd lose dealer margin,10/15k ish...
Ferrari are struggling to shift 488's too but I'm sorry to say that Macs are depreciating at a level that will stop owners being loyal to the brand.
I really want a 720 but not sure I wanna do 50k + in 12/18 months!
I do think the new car market is perversely bigger than the used market for these cars.. which is not viable long term.. used buyers need the confidence to run these cars, on say used Ferrari budgets.
Mark-C said:
The Surveyor said:
Juno said:
…….
A friend of mine just lost £50k on a 650 Spyder and 1500 miles over 18 months,Impressed he is not
…..
Well he should have driven it more then shouldn't he. A friend of mine just lost £50k on a 650 Spyder and 1500 miles over 18 months,Impressed he is not
…..
it up next time 
Edited by Juno on Tuesday 4th June 21:54
ferdi p said:
They do need to sort it. Was in a Mac dealer last week, the part-ex bids to 570 owners who want to trade up to a spider or 720 meant they were 40/50k down in 12 months! They told me they were struggling to get deals closed.
If you paid 140k for a 570s in 2018 you'll now see a trade bid of 90/95k.
If you'd bought a 458 for 140k last year & sold it to the trade this year, you'd lose dealer margin,10/15k ish...
Ferrari are struggling to shift 488's too but I'm sorry to say that Macs are depreciating at a level that will stop owners being loyal to the brand.
I really want a 720 but not sure I wanna do 50k + in 12/18 months!
If they are the part ex bids and I'm guessing a decent spec 720 Spyder is circa £260K then that's a BIG CHUNK of change to find If you paid 140k for a 570s in 2018 you'll now see a trade bid of 90/95k.
If you'd bought a 458 for 140k last year & sold it to the trade this year, you'd lose dealer margin,10/15k ish...
Ferrari are struggling to shift 488's too but I'm sorry to say that Macs are depreciating at a level that will stop owners being loyal to the brand.
I really want a 720 but not sure I wanna do 50k + in 12/18 months!
Plus you will have to brace yourself for another 100k loss 18/24 months down the road on the Spyder
I think you need to be stinking rich or certified insane to do it
Yes it’s happening across all brands, mate of mine has just been bid £100k loss on a year old Ferrari 488 coupe, another has a Aventador which he paid £400k + plus for with 1400 miles being bid £310k within the year. Another has a 9 month old DBS being bid £165k on a purchase price of £225 last October against a new superleggera having done 600 miles.
The most shocking thing about all those numbers is someone losing £100k on a 488....I can’t say any of the others shock me. People moan about McLaren’s but Aston’s aren’t much better from what I can tell...quite a few DBS’s have appeared on the market with delivery mileage for a significant discount.
Supercars are very susceptible to the "new shiny thing" market as well. When something first comes out and the youtubers are having a circle jerk over it the manufacturer will sell a few but when a year or two passes there's always something else new.
If you think back to the 90s and noughties the amount of choice of supercars available now has exploded. The supply of rich people has been neatly subsidised by giving oiks like me access to cheap finance providing a bigger pool of buyers but that same finance continues to work better on newer cars so the older 2/3 year old cars are left for more traditional buyers of which the are obviously far less.
Because of the way the finance works especially with McLaren the monthly cost on a new car is less than used. The losses are masked and the buyer is happy. Mclaren will only do 2 year PCP as far as I know because they need you to be in another car in 2 years time. This combined with the under the counter discounting on new cars is why the values of used are where they are. Mc also won't give GFV on used either which could be seen as worrying if you were fussed about having a firm exit plan.
There's really no short term fix other than restricting supply of new but that I can't see being part of the business plan.
What are residuals like in other territories? Its easy for us to forget but the UK market will be far from the biggest for Mc so in the grander scheme of things for the company it doesn't really matter what's going on in the UK.
If you think back to the 90s and noughties the amount of choice of supercars available now has exploded. The supply of rich people has been neatly subsidised by giving oiks like me access to cheap finance providing a bigger pool of buyers but that same finance continues to work better on newer cars so the older 2/3 year old cars are left for more traditional buyers of which the are obviously far less.
Because of the way the finance works especially with McLaren the monthly cost on a new car is less than used. The losses are masked and the buyer is happy. Mclaren will only do 2 year PCP as far as I know because they need you to be in another car in 2 years time. This combined with the under the counter discounting on new cars is why the values of used are where they are. Mc also won't give GFV on used either which could be seen as worrying if you were fussed about having a firm exit plan.
There's really no short term fix other than restricting supply of new but that I can't see being part of the business plan.
What are residuals like in other territories? Its easy for us to forget but the UK market will be far from the biggest for Mc so in the grander scheme of things for the company it doesn't really matter what's going on in the UK.
tyrrell said:
Yes it’s happening across all brands, mate of mine has just been bid £100k loss on a year old Ferrari 488 coupe, another has a Aventador which he paid £400k + plus for with 1400 miles being bid £310k within the year. Another has a 9 month old DBS being bid £165k on a purchase price of £225 last October against a new superleggera having done 600 miles.
I still believe it's worse at McLaren...Did he do 40k miles in the 488!?
So your saying his 210/220k 488 is getting bids of 110/120k after 12 months?
Cheapest 488 is a yellow 2016 at £166k, I reckon it would get a trade bid of 140k+ easily. Meanwhile a 2018 720s that cost 240k new won't see a bid above 140k.
Sorry but it just isn't the same across all brands. It's definitely tough out there but unfortunately McLaren are coming off the worst imo.
Juno said:
Wow what a great idea I didn't think of that,guess if he'd done 10k miles in it he could have lost 70k in stead of just the £50K,'I'll let him know about you're great idea so he doesn't it up next time
I think the point was - stop hand-wringing and start driving. it up next time Edited by Juno on Tuesday 4th June 21:54
It was a heavy spec £279k, funny how things happen, had another client phone me last night he has just been bid £285k on his late 2018 Aventador which he paid £350k for, it’s a low carbon optioned car which is causing the low bids.
I agree McLaren being the younger brand is suffering more, but these are still significant losses for owners, who have been led to believe supers cars only go up in value.
Least with a McLaren 720S performance in a heavy spec you could have got £30K off at the start.
I agree McLaren being the younger brand is suffering more, but these are still significant losses for owners, who have been led to believe supers cars only go up in value.
Least with a McLaren 720S performance in a heavy spec you could have got £30K off at the start.
Juno said:
Wow what a great idea I didn't think of that,guess if he'd done 10k miles in it he could have lost 70k in stead of just the £50K,'I'll let him know about you're great idea so he doesn't it up next time
it up next time Edited by Juno on Tuesday 4th June 21:54
It is a long time since anybody has missed the point by quite so much, but to expand on my albeit flippant response is that there is a massive difference to most people between losing money on something you have derived considerable enjoyment from, compared to something that you have barely used. Those who are seeing £1/2m potential loss on their 911r investments will be feeling equally miffed as your mate, those who have driven the doors off their 911r having experienced probably the best 911 variant for decades will be feeling less miffed. Can you understand the point I was making?oh, 'your' not 'you're'
tyrrell said:
It was a heavy spec £279k, funny how things happen, had another client phone me last night he has just been bid £285k on his late 2018 Aventador which he paid £350k for, it’s a low carbon optioned car which is causing the low bids.
I agree McLaren being the younger brand is suffering more, but these are still significant losses for owners, who have been led to believe supers cars only go up in value.
Least with a McLaren 720S performance in a heavy spec you could have got £30K off at the start.
I'm amazed that people who can afford £200k+ cars are really that stupid.I agree McLaren being the younger brand is suffering more, but these are still significant losses for owners, who have been led to believe supers cars only go up in value.
Least with a McLaren 720S performance in a heavy spec you could have got £30K off at the start.
tyrrell said:
It was a heavy spec £279k, funny how things happen, had another client phone me last night he has just been bid £285k on his late 2018 Aventador which he paid £350k for, it’s a low carbon optioned car which is causing the low bids.
I agree McLaren being the younger brand is suffering more, but these are still significant losses for owners, who have been led to believe supers cars only go up in value
Least with a McLaren 720S performance in a heavy spec you could have got £30K off at the start.
You have got to be kidding me. Finding hard to find sympathy for any car owner who believes that.I agree McLaren being the younger brand is suffering more, but these are still significant losses for owners, who have been led to believe supers cars only go up in value
Least with a McLaren 720S performance in a heavy spec you could have got £30K off at the start.
Juno said:
Mark-C said:
The Surveyor said:
Juno said:
…….
A friend of mine just lost £50k on a 650 Spyder and 1500 miles over 18 months,Impressed he is not
…..
Well he should have driven it more then shouldn't he. A friend of mine just lost £50k on a 650 Spyder and 1500 miles over 18 months,Impressed he is not
…..
it up next time Edited by Juno on Tuesday 4th June 21:54
Better miles/£ ratio doing 10,000 miles in it!
The Surveyor said:
Juno said:
Wow what a great idea I didn't think of that,guess if he'd done 10k miles in it he could have lost 70k in stead of just the £50K,'I'll let him know about you're great idea so he doesn't it up next time
it up next time Edited by Juno on Tuesday 4th June 21:54
It is a long time since anybody has missed the point by quite so much, but to expand on my albeit flippant response is that there is a massive difference to most people between losing money on something you have derived considerable enjoyment from, compared to something that you have barely used. Those who are seeing £1/2m potential loss on their 911r investments will be feeling equally miffed as your mate, those who have driven the doors off their 911r having experienced probably the best 911 variant for decades will be feeling less miffed. Can you understand the point I was making?oh, 'your' not 'you're'
I really have no comprehension of treating these things like artworks. Get out, rack up the miles and remember that in three more years nobody in the UK will even buy any of these cars.
I've probably lost 30 grand more on my last few cars than I would have if I hadn't driven them, that figure isn't even on the scale compared to the fun and general life experience I had driving them all over the place.
I think people forget too quickly how privileged we are to be in this position. I'm currently sitting in a hotel bar looking over lake Konstanz in the middle of a trip around the Alps that will put 3 thousand miles on the car and knock another 3 grand off its value. Which of those two figures do you think I will contemplate more on my deathbed?
The crash is here, don't buy them if you want to save money and if you've already bought them just live the lucky life you have until it makes you bleed.
Edited by br d on Wednesday 5th June 18:48
br d said:
Shocking really. My attitude couldn't be more different from Juno's "Don't drive it and it and it will be worth more money".
I really have no comprehension of treating these things like artworks. Get out, rack up the miles and remember that in three more years nobody in the UK will even buy any of these cars.
I've probably lost 30 grand more on my last few cars than I would have if I hadn't driven them, that figure isn't even on the scale compared to the fun and general life experience I had driving them all over the place.
I think people forget too quickly how privileged we are to be in this position. I'm currently sitting in a hotel bar looking over lake Konstanz in the middle of a trip around the Alps that will put 3 thousand miles on the car and knock another 3 grand off its value. Which of those two figures do you think I will contemplate more on my deathbed?
The crash is here, don't buy them if you want to save money and if you've already bought them just live the lucky life you have until it makes you bleed.
Fuvking fantastic post Brad !!I really have no comprehension of treating these things like artworks. Get out, rack up the miles and remember that in three more years nobody in the UK will even buy any of these cars.
I've probably lost 30 grand more on my last few cars than I would have if I hadn't driven them, that figure isn't even on the scale compared to the fun and general life experience I had driving them all over the place.
I think people forget too quickly how privileged we are to be in this position. I'm currently sitting in a hotel bar looking over lake Konstanz in the middle of a trip around the Alps that will put 3 thousand miles on the car and knock another 3 grand off its value. Which of those two figures do you think I will contemplate more on my deathbed?
The crash is here, don't buy them if you want to save money and if you've already bought them just live the lucky life you have until it makes you bleed.
Edited by br d on Wednesday 5th June 18:48
And enjoy your beer .
£50k loss and driven 1500 miles
I've lost on my Ferrari, but at £3 per mile so far, £3.25 per mile if I take servicing and maintenance into account. I plan on long ownership and so the £ per mile should reduce over time with any luck...not that I really care, I didn't buy it to look at.
I've lost on my Ferrari, but at £3 per mile so far, £3.25 per mile if I take servicing and maintenance into account. I plan on long ownership and so the £ per mile should reduce over time with any luck...not that I really care, I didn't buy it to look at.
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