What,Can and Should Mclaren be Doing About Protecting Resale
Discussion
I don't really have any sympathy for people who fork out over 200k on a new car barely drive the thing and then moan about taking tens of thousands of a hit come time to change within 12 months...they strike me as more interested in having the latest flashy toy to pose in rather than being true car enthusiasts...buying new and trading in against a main dealer within 12 months is Just torching your cash a child would understand this.
It is fairly apparent that a large number of Supercar owners and also Porker owners seem fixated with mileage limitation, WTF are they about !!!
And What is more apparent is that most McLaren owners drive and enjoy their cars and yes they don’t want huge depreciation or losses but they are smiling when they are driving !!
But while the Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche and Aston brigade ponce about I’m out drifting, driving and tracking and enjoying what is a real driving Supercar not one that gathers dust !!
And What is more apparent is that most McLaren owners drive and enjoy their cars and yes they don’t want huge depreciation or losses but they are smiling when they are driving !!
But while the Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche and Aston brigade ponce about I’m out drifting, driving and tracking and enjoying what is a real driving Supercar not one that gathers dust !!
[quote=tyrrell
these are still significant losses for owners, who have been led to believe supers cars only go up in value.
.
[/quote]
If they really believed that, they were plonkers.
As soon as supply is effectively unlimited vs demand, why should they behave any differently to any other kind of car? That’s all that’s happened.
these are still significant losses for owners, who have been led to believe supers cars only go up in value.
.
[/quote]
If they really believed that, they were plonkers.
As soon as supply is effectively unlimited vs demand, why should they behave any differently to any other kind of car? That’s all that’s happened.
The market has grown significantly for these products , due easier money and PCP , so more can afford them .
Maclaren just is fulfilling demand , the Porsche story shows clients do not like being told they cannot buy the product they feel they want .
The UK market for GT3 and RS products is ten fold what was 15 years ago ......now there are 5-600 rs models alone with the 991 series that is not exactly restricting supply . I remember the days when a RS model would only have 50-60 cars in the UK and they struggled to sell them .
Maclaren just is fulfilling demand , the Porsche story shows clients do not like being told they cannot buy the product they feel they want .
The UK market for GT3 and RS products is ten fold what was 15 years ago ......now there are 5-600 rs models alone with the 991 series that is not exactly restricting supply . I remember the days when a RS model would only have 50-60 cars in the UK and they struggled to sell them .
hunter 66 said:
Maclaren just is fulfilling demand , the Porsche story shows clients do not like being told they cannot buy the product they feel they want .
The UK market for GT3 and RS products is ten fold what was 15 years ago ......now there are 5-600 rs models alone with the 991 series that is not exactly restricting supply . I remember the days when a RS model would only have 50-60 cars in the UK and they struggled to sell them .
I can't agree with that. If Mclaren was merely fulfilling demand rather than oversupplying cars at quite a rate, the level of discounting simply would not happen.The UK market for GT3 and RS products is ten fold what was 15 years ago ......now there are 5-600 rs models alone with the 991 series that is not exactly restricting supply . I remember the days when a RS model would only have 50-60 cars in the UK and they struggled to sell them .
And actually the Porsche story proves exactly that telling people that they cannot buy the cars they want generates even more demand. If anyone could walk into a UK OPC and order a GT car the number of people actually then wanting them would crater.
fridaypassion said:
I remember turning my nose up at a 996RS for about 60k! Not one of my finest moments.
Back when I had a 964, they were unpopular and averaged about ~£15k. Somebody on the forum decided to sell their 964RS - think it was up for £28k, and I remember thinking : That's a lot of money, not sure I'd pay that......Anyway - back to McLaren prices :
I have a colleague who's a big fan of Tesla, is considering a purchase and has talked quite a lot about them. And from what he's said, some of the issues that have been raised in this thread as possible reasons for McLaren depreciation are equally applicable to Tesla:
Tesla are a new brand in the car world, they release new models very often and they have no indy network.
Yet Tesla prices seem to be pretty solid.
Why the difference? Obviously they're very different cars - is it purely because they're targeting different market segments and customers have different expectations?
isaldiri said:
And actually the Porsche story proves exactly that telling people that they cannot buy the cars they want generates even more demand. If anyone could walk into a UK OPC and order a GT car the number of people actually then wanting them would crater.
That may be true for people relatively new to the Porsche game who have only seen GT cars as being money makers but as Hunter points out there are plenty of older GT customers who have been shut out by this phenomenon who far from becoming keener to buy a Porsche have actually stuck two fingers up at Porsche and moved on to different brands for their new car purchase.Interesting that there are so many people worried about Mclaren depreciation, I suspect many are these new Porsche GT buyers who have "grown up" in the last 5 years or so so they think cars should not depreciate that so are so incensed by Mclarens "normal" depreciation.
For you newbees here are some pre GT boom numbers.
My 993 turbo cost me £96|K new in 1995 and in 1999 I was offered £40K for it, that's 20% depreciation pa
My 997 GT2 cost £138K new in 2009 and it was worth £65K in 2012 that's 25% depreciation pa
This is normal, 20-25% depreciation pa will return it may even get higher. It seems to me that the GT phenomenon has rewired some people who now think they can afford a much more expensive car than they can in reality when the normal rules apply and it's leading to people not driving the cars for fear of putting miles on them and losing even more in depreciation, what a f
king ridiculous state of affairs just buy what you can afford, the cheap depreciated Mclarens will be coming down the pipeline soon so start saving and stop bleating. davek_964 said:
Back when I had a 964, they were unpopular and averaged about ~£15k. Somebody on the forum decided to sell their 964RS - think it was up for £28k, and I remember thinking : That's a lot of money, not sure I'd pay that......
Anyway - back to McLaren prices :
I have a colleague who's a big fan of Tesla, is considering a purchase and has talked quite a lot about them. And from what he's said, some of the issues that have been raised in this thread as possible reasons for McLaren depreciation are equally applicable to Tesla:
Tesla are a new brand in the car world, they release new models very often and they have no indy network.
Yet Tesla prices seem to be pretty solid.
Why the difference? Obviously they're very different cars - is it purely because they're targeting different market segments and customers have different expectations?
I have a Tesla Model S - the really fast one - as my daily driver.Anyway - back to McLaren prices :
I have a colleague who's a big fan of Tesla, is considering a purchase and has talked quite a lot about them. And from what he's said, some of the issues that have been raised in this thread as possible reasons for McLaren depreciation are equally applicable to Tesla:
Tesla are a new brand in the car world, they release new models very often and they have no indy network.
Yet Tesla prices seem to be pretty solid.
Why the difference? Obviously they're very different cars - is it purely because they're targeting different market segments and customers have different expectations?
That's quite incorrect about Tesla. Unlike McLaren, they don't release new, improved models in quick succession and have had a history of not keeping up with demand. The Model S is on since 2012 and the Model X since late 2014, and many features (including performance) are updated for free via firmware (performance updates not for free). They're just releasing their 3rd high volume one in the UK - Model 3.
They also require almost no service though they have fair share of electrical niggles.
The issue with Tesla lately is that they have been dropping their list prices to raise cash.
Edited by 12pack on Thursday 6th June 13:03
TB993tt said:
That may be true for people relatively new to the Porsche game who have only seen GT cars as being money makers but as Hunter points out there are plenty of older GT customers who have been shut out by this phenomenon who far from becoming keener to buy a Porsche have actually stuck two fingers up at Porsche and moved on to different brands for their new car purchase.
Interesting that there are so many people worried about Mclaren depreciation, I suspect many are these new Porsche GT buyers who have "grown up" in the last 5 years or so so they think cars should not depreciate that so are so incensed by Mclarens "normal" depreciation.
For you newbees here are some pre GT boom numbers.
My 993 turbo cost me £96|K new in 1995 and in 1999 I was offered £40K for it, that's 20% depreciation pa
My 997 GT2 cost £138K new in 2009 and it was worth £65K in 2012 that's 25% depreciation pa
This is normal, 20-25% depreciation pa will return it may even get higher. It seems to me that the GT phenomenon has rewired some people who now think they can afford a much more expensive car than they can in reality when the normal rules apply and it's leading to people not driving the cars for fear of putting miles on them and losing even more in depreciation, what a fking ridiculous state of affairs just buy what you can afford, the cheap depreciated Mclarens will be coming down the pipeline soon so start saving and stop bleating.
Spare me the condescension. I'm quite aware that Porsche prices used to be like as it turns out. My point still stands, for every older 6/7 GT buyer than throws a strop and goes to Mclaren or someone else, there's still going to be a long queue of people waiting to get a modern GT car for various reasons. Interesting that there are so many people worried about Mclaren depreciation, I suspect many are these new Porsche GT buyers who have "grown up" in the last 5 years or so so they think cars should not depreciate that so are so incensed by Mclarens "normal" depreciation.
For you newbees here are some pre GT boom numbers.
My 993 turbo cost me £96|K new in 1995 and in 1999 I was offered £40K for it, that's 20% depreciation pa
My 997 GT2 cost £138K new in 2009 and it was worth £65K in 2012 that's 25% depreciation pa
This is normal, 20-25% depreciation pa will return it may even get higher. It seems to me that the GT phenomenon has rewired some people who now think they can afford a much more expensive car than they can in reality when the normal rules apply and it's leading to people not driving the cars for fear of putting miles on them and losing even more in depreciation, what a f
king ridiculous state of affairs just buy what you can afford, the cheap depreciated Mclarens will be coming down the pipeline soon so start saving and stop bleating. And the point made earlier in the thread also is relevant. In a stronger market McLaren have still done worse (far worse) in some cases. Pointing out that Porsche used to depreciate a lot doesn't mean that when/if the current state of GT car prices changes McLaren won't be even more greatly affected than now.
TB993tt said:
isaldiri said:
And actually the Porsche story proves exactly that telling people that they cannot buy the cars they want generates even more demand. If anyone could walk into a UK OPC and order a GT car the number of people actually then wanting them would crater.
That may be true for people relatively new to the Porsche game who have only seen GT cars as being money makers but as Hunter points out there are plenty of older GT customers who have been shut out by this phenomenon who far from becoming keener to buy a Porsche have actually stuck two fingers up at Porsche and moved on to different brands for their new car purchase.Interesting that there are so many people worried about Mclaren depreciation, I suspect many are these new Porsche GT buyers who have "grown up" in the last 5 years or so so they think cars should not depreciate that so are so incensed by Mclarens "normal" depreciation.
For you newbees here are some pre GT boom numbers.
My 993 turbo cost me £96|K new in 1995 and in 1999 I was offered £40K for it, that's 20% depreciation pa
My 997 GT2 cost £138K new in 2009 and it was worth £65K in 2012 that's 25% depreciation pa
This is normal, 20-25% depreciation pa will return it may even get higher. It seems to me that the GT phenomenon has rewired some people who now think they can afford a much more expensive car than they can in reality when the normal rules apply and it's leading to people not driving the cars for fear of putting miles on them and losing even more in depreciation, what a f
king ridiculous state of affairs just buy what you can afford, the cheap depreciated Mclarens will be coming down the pipeline soon so start saving and stop bleating. 
I drove 6500 miles in my 720S, in 9 or so months.
I lost £90k when it came to sell. Did it sting? Yeah. But by god those memories were fantastic, and I bought the car in cash, so I wasn't crying too hard when the time came to let it go - because it was exactly that, a toy fund. Spare cash. Etc. Not money I can't afford to lose. It stung because it's a lot of money vanishing. But I'm not writing off the brand because I couldn't afford the depreciation.
I do think that they need to work a little on protecting residuals. Seeing the cars be a little firmer in the secondary market would be nice. Bit more reliability and reducing supply would go a long way in sorting that.
I've heard rumblings of the LT, seems like they're paying attention (somewhat) to the residuals thing and oversupply.
I lost £90k when it came to sell. Did it sting? Yeah. But by god those memories were fantastic, and I bought the car in cash, so I wasn't crying too hard when the time came to let it go - because it was exactly that, a toy fund. Spare cash. Etc. Not money I can't afford to lose. It stung because it's a lot of money vanishing. But I'm not writing off the brand because I couldn't afford the depreciation.
I do think that they need to work a little on protecting residuals. Seeing the cars be a little firmer in the secondary market would be nice. Bit more reliability and reducing supply would go a long way in sorting that.
I've heard rumblings of the LT, seems like they're paying attention (somewhat) to the residuals thing and oversupply.
993rsr said:
Good to see you are alive and well TB
Hey JC, I'm still here mate, not posting that much as I find the predominant cash talk pretty futile.Have you tried the Maccas yet, they are incredible even the entry level stuff is fantastic I'd say pretty akin to your CGT but with more grunt
RBT0 said:
Would you articulate a bit more on this please?
So, I've heard that they'll be numbered cars (not really super surprising, given the 675LT), but imo, I was a little off base in my initial reply - because I personally think they should build less than they're planning to. But that's just as a prospective owner. I won't mention total build numbers out of respect as I haven't seen that number floating about in public yet.I've also heard that Woking themselves will be vetting the buyers based on purchasing history, and the dealerships are now removed from the process of allocating these "special" cars. It's only up to the dealers to put names forward. A bit more akin to how the ultimate series cars are done.
CyCy said:
So, I've heard that they'll be numbered cars (not really super surprising, given the 675LT), but imo, I was a little off base in my initial reply - because I personally think they should build less than they're planning to. But that's just as a prospective owner. I won't mention total build numbers out of respect as I haven't seen that number floating about in public yet.
I've also heard that Woking themselves will be vetting the buyers based on purchasing history, and the dealerships are now removed from the process of allocating these "special" cars. It's only up to the dealers to put names forward. A bit more akin to how the ultimate series cars are done.
DittoI've also heard that Woking themselves will be vetting the buyers based on purchasing history, and the dealerships are now removed from the process of allocating these "special" cars. It's only up to the dealers to put names forward. A bit more akin to how the ultimate series cars are done.
CyCy said:
So I guess it's not very useful as it's no indication they're moving to make a change in how they produce normal cars, really. But this is some updated info for the LT, anyway.
This. Sounds like they’re fixing the only part that isn’t broken!Surely this isn’t all they’re doing?
On another note, I spotted a 12c and a 650 in the wild today and in the sunshine they still looked amazing, proper supercars.....
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