Living with a McLaren 650s Spider as an (almost) daily
Discussion
davek_964 said:
On the 650, it's buried in the car menus - it's quicker to get out of the car and check the tyre it's complaining about.
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3 clicks, I check pressure and then temp on the go routinely. Clearly shows the offending tyre in red. Far easier to check than in the V12 Vantage. And only a click more than in the Tesla. Surely we are making this into far more than of an issue than it actually is!.
Edited by 12pack on Friday 25th October 11:54
isaldiri said:
No the tenneco hydraulic suspension is not active but merely adaptive/semi active. It's very good yes but it absolutely isn't 'active suspension' as per something like 1993 Williams F1 cars....
McLaren's engineers would disagree with you and say it is fully active (I asked). I'm no engineer so won't debate this myself, especially as I have no knowledge of the Williams F1 system.
Technically, it wasn't bad advice. I was told that in October, I'd start seeing tyre pressure warnings, because of the drop in temperature. Which is true, and I did.
I was told that they'd had quite a few owners contact them thinking it was an issue, hence I was being warned about it.
Doesn't seem like bad or wrong advice really.
I was told that they'd had quite a few owners contact them thinking it was an issue, hence I was being warned about it.
Doesn't seem like bad or wrong advice really.
LotusJas said:
McLaren's engineers would disagree with you and say it is fully active (I asked). I'm no engineer so won't debate this myself, especially as I have no knowledge of the Williams F1 system.
Well depends on where you draw the line on “active”. The Williams F1 adjusted ride height (chosen by the driver - hence active) to reduce drag for overtaking. My Tesla does this automatically based on GPS locations. The current Mcl proactive chassis control reacts to keep the car level and tyres planted even when the fronts and rear are rocking opposite to each other. But it’s active in the sense that you can choose the level of adjustment (normal, sport,track) based on how you want to drive.
LotusJas said:
McLaren's engineers would disagree with you and say it is fully active (I asked). I'm no engineer so won't debate this myself, especially as I have no knowledge of the Williams F1 system.
Manufacturers are also very good at claiming all manner of BS. The hydraulic suspension adjusts damping rates not actual ride heights. Not even on a Senna or P1. A 650 or 720 actually still dives a surprising amount under braking if you look at pictures of one in track. davek_964 said:
Technically, it wasn't bad advice. I was told that in October, I'd start seeing tyre pressure warnings, because of the drop in temperature. Which is true, and I did.
I was told that they'd had quite a few owners contact them thinking it was an issue, hence I was being warned about it.
Doesn't seem like bad or wrong advice really.
Fair enough, it's factually correct information, but what I am saying is they appear to have omitted 2 key points:I was told that they'd had quite a few owners contact them thinking it was an issue, hence I was being warned about it.
Doesn't seem like bad or wrong advice really.
1/ All car tyres will drop pressure in colder ambient temperatures.
2/ You should add pressure to counter the temperature drop.
isaldiri said:
The hydraulic suspension adjusts damping rates not actual ride heights. Not even on a Senna or P1. A 650 or 720 actually still dives a surprising amount under braking if you look at pictures of one in track.
The definition of Active suspension is not that the driver (or car) can adjust ride height though.And I was actually surprised by the lack of dive on the 720S under hard braking. See this airbrake deployed pic of mine:
Couldn't think where else to put it, and slightly OT, but to me this is the most beautiful colour speced inside/outside 720s I've seen so far. Were I lucky enough to be buying one this would be it. Who ever ordered it really thought about it, and has great taste.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
GRD 8 said:
Hydraulics on the super series cars are not directly(hydraulically) connected to shock absorbers and as such do not adjust damper rates.
Yes, but the hydraulic bleeder valves control the level of displacement, and as such effectively change the damping levels in reaction to what is happening at opposing corners. Far more effective than active dampers in my opinion. Never had a car that came anywhere close to my 650s at not being knocked around on bumpy roads.Had a great drive today. Getting a lot better at left foot trail braking. The car really does so much better trailing late into the corner to get those skinny front tyres to really bite. Really need to let the rear wing drop after the main braking zone to get more onto the fronts. Could do with a little more dive, actually.
LotusJas said:
Fair enough, it's factually correct information, but what I am saying is they appear to have omitted 2 key points:
2/ You should add pressure to counter the temperature drop.
I'm pretty sure this is wrong. The manufacturers ecommended pressures are at 20 degC the actual pressure will go up or down depending on the ambient temperatures and warming of the air in the tyres by driving, you should NOT add pressure to compensate for colder ambient.2/ You should add pressure to counter the temperature drop.
The system Porsche use compensates for ambient temperatures and will tell you if you need to put air in to meet the 20 degC condition, the Mclaren system doesn't and is a PIA, starting to bong away in the cold mornings when in fact all is good.
TB993tt said:
LotusJas said:
Fair enough, it's factually correct information, but what I am saying is they appear to have omitted 2 key points:
2/ You should add pressure to counter the temperature drop.
I'm pretty sure this is wrong. The manufacturers ecommended pressures are at 20 degC the actual pressure will go up or down depending on the ambient temperatures and warming of the air in the tyres by driving, you should NOT add pressure to compensate for colder ambient.2/ You should add pressure to counter the temperature drop.
The system Porsche use compensates for ambient temperatures and will tell you if you need to put air in to meet the 20 degC condition, the Mclaren system doesn't and is a PIA, starting to bong away in the cold mornings when in fact all is good.
On mine, the only time I've had a TPMS warning when driving on a cold day was because one tyre was a few PSI lower than the rest, not specifically due to the ambient temperatures influence on four corners.
Has anybody actually seen a TPMS warning showing all 4 corners 'red' just due to the cold weather ?
The Surveyor said:
Without promoting this thread as one about tyre pressures, my understanding of the system is that its aim is to detect an individual puncture, rather than a general change in pressure across all 4 corners. If all the tyres were set at (say) 35 PSI, a drop in outside temperature and all the tyres suddenly being measured at (say) 30 PSI would not trigger the warning. One tyre being measured at 30PSI whilst the rest being measured at 35 PSI would trigger a warning.
On mine, the only time I've had a TPMS warning when driving on a cold day was because one tyre was a few PSI lower than the rest, not specifically due to the ambient temperatures influence on four corners.
Has anybody actually seen a TPMS warning showing all 4 corners 'red' just due to the cold weather ?
Now that makes real sense, what you are saying is that the Mclaren system is there to monitor that the tyres keep within the same pressure as each other - this is indeed how it appears to work. This morning I had individual tyres going red at random times as they dropped below the other ones.On mine, the only time I've had a TPMS warning when driving on a cold day was because one tyre was a few PSI lower than the rest, not specifically due to the ambient temperatures influence on four corners.
Has anybody actually seen a TPMS warning showing all 4 corners 'red' just due to the cold weather ?
TB993tt said:
Now that makes real sense, what you are saying is that the Mclaren system is there to monitor that the tyres keep within the same pressure as each other - this is indeed how it appears to work. This morning I had individual tyres going red at random times as they dropped below the other ones.
I think so... based upon random bongs I've had with the TPMS on mine, and also how it appears to work on my Audi, and Mrs Surveyors Mini. If you up the pressure when fully loaded, then drop all 4 back afterwards you don't get all 4 corners pinging, but if you only dropped the pressure back on 1 tyre, it would ping red.12pack said:
Yes, but the hydraulic bleeder valves control the level of displacement, and as such effectively change the damping levels in reaction to what is happening at opposing corners. Far more effective than active dampers in my opinion. Never had a car that came anywhere close to my 650s at not being knocked around on bumpy roads.
Had a great drive today. Getting a lot better at left foot trail braking. The car really does so much better trailing late into the corner to get those skinny front tyres to really bite. Really need to let the rear wing drop after the main braking zone to get more onto the fronts. Could do with a little more dive, actually.
I agree, my 650 is by far the best car i have driven for handling and ride on bumpy roads and its ability to ride level when pushing it hard is amazing. Had a great drive today. Getting a lot better at left foot trail braking. The car really does so much better trailing late into the corner to get those skinny front tyres to really bite. Really need to let the rear wing drop after the main braking zone to get more onto the fronts. Could do with a little more dive, actually.
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