What is "Raw"?

[Bispal]

Raw simply means 'under cooked' or under done. So a light, unadorned, basic experience. As mentioned above by Rocketreid a 430 CUP is this and I changed my 12C for a 430CUP. Not because i didn't like the 12C I loved it because it was very fast, very comfortable and refined. However I wanted something that was 'Raw' and dictionary definition aside I think, for me, that meant something you can get really engaged with. Every input makes a difference, every mistake is punished, accuracy is rewarded, every input matters. A raw car is a car you have to learn and get into a groove with and you feel it by the seat of your pants.

I haven't driven a 'raw' McLaren they are all refined (*675LT I have not driven, all other standard cars I have) and they are great cars because of this. Perhaps they are raw compared to a Range Rover or Bentley GT but not in comparison to other sportscars / supercars. In general sportscars tend to be rawer than supercars as they have a different agenda. Lightweight specials like the 430 Scud can be very raw too because they are lightweight / under-cooked.

[RBT0]

Ok let’s to a ranking of rawest supercars then!

Think we all agree LTs are more raw than plain Maccas?

Definitely my experience with sportseries!

[Larry5.2]

Just to set the yardstick, McLaren F1 scores 11 for rawness.

[anonymous-user]

So, depending on the application, raw could be a good or bad thing. Having covered over 9K miles in 4 months in my 720S, raw would be a bad thing for me. Raw would be exciting, but also very tiresome. That's not to say the 720S is an unexciting car to drive, definitely not, but it's more suitable for my application as a GT'ish comfortable road warrior, than a seat of your pants sensory experience. My other car is a RR, which is sat in the garage covered in dust and cobwebs – the 720S is my first choice, even for long journeys. Having said that, there’s always the option to turn the knobs from comfort to track, which introduces enough 24/7 rawness for the masochists (I use the description “GT’ish” very loosely).

With exception of the F1, P1 and Senna, it seems to me that McLaren doesn't really have a mission to make raw cars for the masses. I think I need to take a 600LT for a drive to see what all the fuss is about.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 29th August 00:02

[WCZ]

Larry5.2 said:

Just to set the yardstick, McLaren F1 scores 11 for rawness.

it's not actually that raw is it? on the recent back to back autocar test iirc it was mentioned that the p1 feels much rawer

[anonymous-user]

WCZ said:

it's not actually that raw is it? on the recent back to back autocar test iirc it was mentioned that the p1 feels much rawer

That was some test tho wasn't it. Jammy sod! For those that missed it > https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=haVCT...

[RBT0]

MAC 720S said:

So, depending on the application, raw could be a good or bad thing. Having covered over 9K miles in 4 months in my 720S, raw would be a bad thing for me. Raw would be exciting, but also very tiresome. That's not to say the 720S is an unexciting car to drive, definitely not, but it's more suitable for my application as a GT'ish comfortable road warrior, than a seat of your pants sensory experience. My other car is a RR, which is sat in the garage covered in dust and cobwebs – the 720S is my first choice, even for long journeys. Having said that, there’s always the option to turn the knobs from comfort to track, which introduces enough 24/7 rawness for the masochists (I use the description “GT’ish” very loosely).

With exception of the F1, P1 and Senna, it seems to me that McLaren doesn't really have a mission to make raw cars for the masses. I think I need to take a 600LT for a drive to see what all the fuss is about.

Edited by MAC 720S on Thursday 29th August 00:02

Try one and let us know.

Sure you’ll spot differences and unfiltering as done by an other person on a different post.

Far from saying is the rawest Macca, but definitely gose higher in the ranking.

Has anyone driven 675 and 600, how the two compares? I guess 675 delivers same or more rawness.

[andrew]

"raw" is the trade-in price on last week's mclaren

[Matty3]

andrew said:

"raw" is the trade-in price on last week's mclaren

As predictable as Halles comet Andrew appears on a McLaren thread - back to school next week?

[andrew]

Matty3 said:

andrew said:

"raw" is the trade-in price on last week's mclaren

As predictable as Halles comet Andrew appears on a McLaren thread - back to school next week?

it's halley's comet, you ignoramus !

[Matty3]

andrew said:

Matty3 said:

andrew said:

"raw" is the trade-in price on last week's mclaren

As predictable as Halles comet Andrew appears on a McLaren thread - back to school next week?

it's halley's comet, you ignoramus !

Thanks - pleased I orchestrated a reply, your English teacher will be purring with admiration

[anonymous-user]

andrew said:

it's halley's comet, you ignoramus !

If you want to nitpick, it's Halley's Comet, you ignoranus

[Matty3]

MAC 720S said:

andrew said:

it's halley's comet, you ignoramus !

If you want to nitpick, it's Halley's Comet, you ignoranus

see what you did there

[andrew]

MAC 720S said:

andrew said:

it's halley's comet, you ignoramus !

If you want to nitpick, it's Halley's Comet, you ignoranus

a bit spicey coming from a moderator wannabe

[Matty3]

andrew said:

MAC 720S said:

andrew said:

it's halley's comet, you ignoramus !

If you want to nitpick, it's Halley's Comet, you ignoranus

a bit spicey coming from a moderator wannabe[/q

I feel it was rather a measured response I would have omitted the ignor

And do please tell us on the McL forum how fantastic? your old Limbo is

Edited by Matty3 on Thursday 29th August 21:27

[anonymous-user]

andrew said:

MAC 720S said:

andrew said:

it's halley's comet, you ignoramus !

If you want to nitpick, it's Halley's Comet, you ignoranus

a bit spicey coming from a moderator wannabe

Just a little bit of spice. It's so easy with some of the trolls / baiters.

[12pack]

MAC 720S said:

With exception of the F1, P1 and Senna, it seems to me that McLaren doesn't really have a mission to make raw cars for the masses.

Quite the opposite really. The intention of the SuperSeries is to have a supercar with daily usability. So "raw"-ness is deliberately reduced to make for comfortable long drives - and things like rear corner visibility are improved. But there's also no compromise in performance.

I find this quite refreshing compared to the Italians, where IMHO "raw"-ness is dialed up to make up for lack of performance.

[LotusJas]

12pack said:

I find this quite refreshing compared to the Italians, where IMHO "raw"-ness is dialed up to make up for lack of performance.

Or one Italian mistakes "twitchiness" for rawness.

[Matty3]

Back on topic

Rawness

Some of my cars/experiences

Current car - Jag XF - Fantastic car - does everything I want for everyday motoring - no rawness whatsoever

Lotus Exige S1 - bought 19 years ago - will never sell has rawness in spades - runs rings around other cars on trackdays on tight tracks - best car I have ever owned - rawness ++

Formula Ford - some of you guys should try a 420kg, 120 bhp Ford engined single seater - leaves a smile on your face that a Supercar just can't match - rawness/engagement ++++ off the scale - but don't use it on the road )

McLaren 570S - much more sophisticated Lotus for the road - looking forward to putting it on he track and will report later - early indications are good

[LotusJas]

Matty3 said:

Lotus Exige S1 - bought 19 years ago - will never sell has rawness in spades - runs rings around other cars on trackdays on tight tracks - best car I have ever owned - rawness ++

Formula Ford - some of you guys should try a 420kg, 120 bhp Ford engined single seater - leaves a smile on your face that a Supercar just can't match - rawness/engagement ++++ off the scale - but don't use it on the road )

McLaren 570S - much more sophisticated Lotus for the road - looking forward to putting it on he track and will report later - early indications are good

I'd agree with that. Driven standard Exige S1, owned a heavily modded one. Driven single seater Formula Ford....and the Macs of course, as well as many other "raw" cars (eg. Michelotto race engined F40).

Most raw car I've driven however was the Brabham BT62, and by quite some margin.