Mclaren depreciation

Mclaren depreciation

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MAC 720S

523 posts

92 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Respectfully, you are wrong. If the original / new product being sold included 20% tax, it would not be included within a used sale by a private owner. The original owner takes the hit on the VAT. Used cars being privately sold in the UK do not attract VAT. If the seller of a used car wishes to recoup the initial outlay of VAT, it’s a point of negotiation. We may be talking about the same thing, but at different points, so I apologise if I have misinterpreted your post.

RBT0

1,022 posts

64 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
Agree with Cod, it’s all about customer “value”. Request and offer will make the market price.

F1s on one extreme (rare car) and let’s say 570s on the opposite (loads of stock)

You know I could have mentioned other cars sold above list from an other brand but I am trying to keep some people away from this topic. biggrin

MAC 720S

523 posts

92 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
There’s over 100 570’s advertised for sale at the moment. What a time to be buying these fantastic cars.

RBT0

1,022 posts

64 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
MAC 720S said:
There’s over 100 570’s advertised for sale at the moment. What a time to be buying these fantastic cars.
Agree, buyers shouldn’t be let down by depreciation, these are amazing machines, more than boring cars sold above list.

It’s the overproduction compared to others that make them lose price, but in terms of experience they’re top notch.



breadvan

1,395 posts

113 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
MAC 720S said:
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Respectfully, you are wrong. If the original / new product being sold included 20% tax, it would not be included within a used sale by a private owner. The original owner takes the hit on the VAT. Used cars being privately sold in the UK do not attract VAT. If the seller of a used car wishes to recoup the initial outlay of VAT, it’s a point of negotiation. We may be talking about the same thing, but at different points, so I apologise if I have misinterpreted your post.
That’s like saying you value the price of a packet of biscuits net of VAT for it’s true cost.

Doesn’t make sense to me as a private buyer. confused


MAC 720S

523 posts

92 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
breadvan said:
MAC 720S said:
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Respectfully, you are wrong. If the original / new product being sold included 20% tax, it would not be included within a used sale by a private owner. The original owner takes the hit on the VAT. Used cars being privately sold in the UK do not attract VAT. If the seller of a used car wishes to recoup the initial outlay of VAT, it’s a point of negotiation. We may be talking about the same thing, but at different points, so I apologise if I have misinterpreted your post.
That’s like saying you value the price of a packet of biscuits net of VAT for it’s true cost.

Doesn’t make sense to me as a private buyer. confused
Do you buy a used packet of biscuits?

MAC 720S

523 posts

92 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
MAC 720S said:
breadvan said:
MAC 720S said:
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Respectfully, you are wrong. If the original / new product being sold included 20% tax, it would not be included within a used sale by a private owner. The original owner takes the hit on the VAT. Used cars being privately sold in the UK do not attract VAT. If the seller of a used car wishes to recoup the initial outlay of VAT, it’s a point of negotiation. We may be talking about the same thing, but at different points, so I apologise if I have misinterpreted your post.
That’s like saying you value the price of a packet of biscuits net of VAT for it’s true cost.

Doesn’t make sense to me as a private buyer. confused
Do you buy a used packet of biscuits?
It’s just about negotiation, that’s all. Buying private, versus dealer, should consider VAT. It’s a significant chunk of the purchase price.

breadvan

1,395 posts

113 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
MAC 720S said:
breadvan said:
MAC 720S said:
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Respectfully, you are wrong. If the original / new product being sold included 20% tax, it would not be included within a used sale by a private owner. The original owner takes the hit on the VAT. Used cars being privately sold in the UK do not attract VAT. If the seller of a used car wishes to recoup the initial outlay of VAT, it’s a point of negotiation. We may be talking about the same thing, but at different points, so I apologise if I have misinterpreted your post.
That’s like saying you value the price of a packet of biscuits net of VAT for it’s true cost.

Doesn’t make sense to me as a private buyer. confused
Do you buy a used packet of biscuits?
OK, I bought my GT3 in 2017 for £135k and sold it in 2019 for £141k.

How much do you calculate my ‘profit’ to be?

SSJ197

91 posts

89 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
MAC 720S said:
MAC 720S said:
breadvan said:
MAC 720S said:
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Respectfully, you are wrong. If the original / new product being sold included 20% tax, it would not be included within a used sale by a private owner. The original owner takes the hit on the VAT. Used cars being privately sold in the UK do not attract VAT. If the seller of a used car wishes to recoup the initial outlay of VAT, it’s a point of negotiation. We may be talking about the same thing, but at different points, so I apologise if I have misinterpreted your post.
That’s like saying you value the price of a packet of biscuits net of VAT for it’s true cost.

Doesn’t make sense to me as a private buyer. confused
Do you buy a used packet of biscuits?
It’s just about negotiation, that’s all. Buying private, versus dealer, should consider VAT. It’s a significant chunk of the purchase price.
It’s an interesting thought. I’m off to persuade a GT3 owner to let me have his car for £100k and whilst I’m at it I’ll get them to throw in their Ceramic Daytona at list minus VAT

Sadly I suspect however these market prices might be driven by supply and demand.

Jules360

1,877 posts

147 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
breadvan said:
MAC 720S said:
breadvan said:
MAC 720S said:
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Respectfully, you are wrong. If the original / new product being sold included 20% tax, it would not be included within a used sale by a private owner. The original owner takes the hit on the VAT. Used cars being privately sold in the UK do not attract VAT. If the seller of a used car wishes to recoup the initial outlay of VAT, it’s a point of negotiation. We may be talking about the same thing, but at different points, so I apologise if I have misinterpreted your post.
That’s like saying you value the price of a packet of biscuits net of VAT for it’s true cost.

Doesn’t make sense to me as a private buyer. confused
Do you buy a used packet of biscuits?
OK, I bought my GT3 in 2017 for £135k and sold it in 2019 for £141k.

How much do you calculate my ‘profit’ to be?
Two years driving a wonderful car. And some money.

ETA - but you and Mr Cod are of course correct. VAT has absolutely nothing to do with the value of a used car. It is simple demand and supply that sets the price. Some will lose 30% driving off the forecourt, others may increase in value.


Edited by Jules360 on Friday 6th September 06:39

Caddyshack

1,337 posts

151 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Good point. I think the supply in Singapore may be less so the values are held. It would seem in the example of £100k lost though that it could play a factor? On cars that seem heavy on depreciation such as my AMG e class and Range Rover 9seen it twice) they do drop by more than the vat in first yr....maybe coincidence?

PompeyReece

579 posts

34 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
MAC 720S said:
There’s over 100 570’s advertised for sale at the moment. What a time to be buying these fantastic cars.
Ssssh over there smile You're not helping!

Not Ideal

2,405 posts

133 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Agree with this entirely.

ferdi p

1,201 posts

117 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
Not Ideal said:
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Agree with this entirely.
+100%

justin220

4,139 posts

149 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
Not Ideal said:
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Agree with this entirely.
+1

Caddyshack

1,337 posts

151 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
I assumed the seller pays vat or charges vat on the sale price and not the 1/6th of margin.

Edited by Caddyshack on Friday 6th September 17:17

andrew

8,781 posts

137 months

Saturday 7th September
quotequote all
MAC 720S said:
Mr Cod said:
Why after I have seen it explained 100 times is VAT still mentioned in depreciation threads. It has no importance other than determining the original list price of the car. Its 20%. If it were 80%, would the car suddenly be worth 80% less on the second hand market? No. People compare the second hand price to the list price and make a decision as to what they will pay. This is the case in Singapore where approx 80% of forecourt price is tax. Second hand prices are similarly exorbitant - prices dont revert to some sort of intrinsic, non-taxed, value of the car.
Respectfully, you are wrong. If the original / new product being sold included 20% tax, it would not be included within a used sale by a private owner. The original owner takes the hit on the VAT. Used cars being privately sold in the UK do not attract VAT. If the seller of a used car wishes to recoup the initial outlay of VAT, it’s a point of negotiation. We may be talking about the same thing, but at different points, so I apologise if I have misinterpreted your post.
respectfully, rofl

Nano2nd

3,150 posts

201 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
well theres now a 12C on the facebook supercars for sale group, at £65k which must be a new record low surely?

Matty3

268 posts

29 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
[quote=Nano2nd]well theres now a 12C on the facebook supercars for sale group, at £65k which must be a new record low surely?[/qu

So what? - might be worth just that. may be worth more - who knows???

Nano2nd

3,150 posts

201 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Matty3 said:
So what?
Err...this thread is about McLaren depreciation is it not?